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Yea they are Mongolian because they utilize mounted fighting just like the Mongolians. they have similar beliefs and plenty of other similarities they are space Mongolians just like space wolves are pretty well Norse space men

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT "1ST FOUNDING" CHAPTERS ONLY!

Sorry but people are clearly not reading the OP. There are HUNDREDs of post second founding SM chapters.

And I still stand by the Iron Hands. They have NO special character, no known tactics, and I agree with others that there is less canon on them than the White Scars.

Chin up. It's by no means guaranteed, but Aaron Dembski-Brown tells us that Dan Abnett is a White Scars fan, and will likely get the first look at the opportunity to write the Scars' Horus Heresy novel when it comes 'round to be time for passing that one out.

There was actually quite a lot of fluff on the White Scars printed in white dwarf, including Jaghatai Khan's life story.

I don't know if it is all still 100% cannon. I remember there was lots of mentions of him having sons, which might not fit with the current back story.

Much of it can still be found on Lexicanum...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jaghatai_Khan

that is still a rather small amount of fluff on Jaghatai there i wish i knew how to find the fluff from white dwarf you speak of. Also a heresy novel with the scars would be awesome though i havent read any of the other ones but i do plan on it,as soon as i either get money to buy a few or maybe borrow sum from friends with the novels

thenoobbomb wrote:I agree. Do you ever hear of their Primarch? Nope. White Scars are disappeared. But in my eyes they seem very fitting for their own codex. Speed-based Japanese? Thats surely different from Ultra's

thenoobbomb wrote:I think that Khan guy looks Japanese

Well you are either in the 'all asians look the same' camp or are woefully ignorant of obvious human regional characteristics. The White Scars and their primarch are clearly designed following Mongolian features, which are completely different to Japanese people (they have different skin colours for a start).

Their fighting style is also obviously classical mongolian in origin

Their whole back story as to the primarch's homeworld is clearly taken from the history of the Mongolian Empire.


Out of all the loyalist chapter's of the first founding the Iron Hands are the ones wih the least known about them. Which is a let down as they one of the chapters with the greater deviance from the norm.

Iron Hands. Never heard of 'em.

Rainbow Warriors anyone?

deffskulla wrote:Rainbow Warriors anyone?

Not a First Founding Chapter.

coolyo294 wrote:

deffskulla wrote:Rainbow Warriors anyone?

Not a First Founding Chapter.

You never know! They could be one of those deleted chapters... just saying.

But if it had to be a first founding chapter, Iron Hands. In the SM codex they don't even have a Chapter Master!

WS or IH

I've read little about the Iron Hands and the Raven Guard, at least most other founding chapters have full books about them.

The Relictors had rules in a WD - they could take a chaos/demon weapon and possibly an icon or something.

Raven Guard could have more as could white scars. However the Iron hands have nothing..

There may well be lost or just hard-to-get fluff out there about them and other chapters. What makes then oddities among Marine stuff is that both WS ans IH have upgrade parts (not just pads) specifically for them.

Definitely Iron Hands, as far as I know every other First Founding chapter has at least one novel about them or one soon coming out.

UM, BA, and SW all have multiple omnibuses... omnibi? whatever.
Salamanders have the Tome of Fire trilogy.
White Scars have Savage Scars.
Dark Angels have a their two Horus Heresy books and I think a few others.
Imperial Fists have... hmm I can't think of anything for them, but they've got tons of more "official" fluff.
Raven Guard are getting Deliverance Lost in a few months.
And Iron Hands have nothing. How sad, they're one of the very few chapters I like.

Ill be honest White Scars have Savage Scars and Hunt for Voldorius. though the Raven guard are also in there quite a bit just like how the scars split Savage Scars with a Rouge trader. but both books do focus on scars pretty well.

I too must throw in for the Iron Hands.

The Iron Hands fluff is "they're relentless cyborgs who like the Adeptus Mechanicus" and you've said everything that's been said about the Iron Hands so far in so many words.

Also, the Index Astartes article said they don't have a chapter master. the 5th edition codex says they do. Silly Ward.

Also, the pictures of painted Marines, the Iron Hands get a single Sterngard....

....just after the index astartes article which says they have few veterans because of what happened at Istavaan. Sigh.

Unit1126PLL wrote:I too must throw in for the Iron Hands.

The Iron Hands fluff is "they're relentless cyborgs who like the Adeptus Mechanicus" and you've said everything that's been said about the Iron Hands so far in so many words.

Also, the Index Astartes article said they don't have a chapter master. the 5th edition codex says they do. Silly Ward.

Also, the pictures of painted Marines, the Iron Hands get a single Sterngard....

....just after the index astartes article which says they have few veterans because of what happened at Istavaan. Sigh.

Yeah the iron hands don't have veterans instead they have a sh-- load of techmarines and sternguard units that basically have the best equipment.

In the overall case the iron hands win fair and square.

coolyo294 wrote:

deffskulla wrote:Rainbow Warriors anyone?

Not a First Founding Chapter.

In fact, they are a fist founding chapter as they appear in the RT Rulebook before Imperial Fists, Emperor Childen, Woorl Eaters and many others came to being

The only thing we know about them is that a Battle Sister once shot down a Rainbow Warrior and that's it!


So the winner is the Rainbow Warriors

I'd say White Scars have more fluff then others. I'd say Iron Hands or Crimson Fists dont have a whole lot of fluff.

Crimson Fists have just as much fluff as the Ultramarines.

Iron Hands had a novel dedicated to them, but the big issue is simply they're not that interesting to begin with. Their whole shtick is they want to lose their humanity and individuality.

And quite frankly--The Rainbow Warriors were a joke back then. They still kind of are, but they shouldn't be taken seriously--like pretty much any kind of background material from Rogue Trader that isn't solidly nailed down and kept now.

I'd just like to point out that "Having a few BL books written about them" doesnt necessarily make for quality background or fluff, alot of the time some authors seem to shoehorn any old space marine chapter into whatever story idea they have about space marines, failing to capture the "essence" of the chapter in question. Kind of like "I've got this awesome idea for a space marine story but dunno what chapter to use, I know the Iron Hands haven't had a book in a while lets use them"

I feel that the RG are pretty well represented in terms of info about how Corax met the Emperor, the Heresy, tactics and fighting style while at the same time we know little about their beliefs/temperament etc.

The IH and WS are better represented in terms of "essence" e.g the IH have close ties to the mechanicum, admire the purity of the machine etc, and that the WS come from a fuedal world simillar to medieval mongolia with a clan structure and a fondness for mounted warfare. However we don't know a whole lot of detail about their Primarchs meetings with the big E or much about what they got up to in the Heresy.

How about the Tigers Argent. I know they live on Icefang but that's about it.

Blood Devil wrote:How about the Tigers Argent. I know they live on Icefang but that's about it.

1) This can be said of many Space Marine Chapters.
2) Tigers Argent aren't one of the original Space Marine Legions.

coolyo294 wrote:

Blood Devil wrote:How about the Tigers Argent. I know they live on Icefang but that's about it.

1) This can be said of many Space Marine Chapters.
2) Tigers Argent aren't one of the original Space Marine Legions.

The OP doesn't specify legions...

purplefood wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

Blood Devil wrote:How about the Tigers Argent. I know they live on Icefang but that's about it.

1) This can be said of many Space Marine Chapters.
2) Tigers Argent aren't one of the original Space Marine Legions.

The OP doesn't specify legions...

Okay. Ignore my second comment.

It's been decided before to just talk about legions, otherwise we'd be here til the Rhana Dhandra (some Eldar humor ) talking about all the random chapters mentioned by name at some point but are never talked about.

Fair enough then.
All the First Founding legions have background to some point...
The Iron Hands are probably the least explored...

yea seriously im just talking about first founding legions/ more or less the ones with primarchs excluding the 2 lost legions. i already know that there are X many legions that have nothing more then a name