Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

meltas or plasma?

I'd put combi Flamers on the rhinos, and put combi-meltas in the squads.

I'd also change one of the PM loadouts to PF + Plasma Gun + Plasma Gun. Same points, but Plasma is great on PMs.

The other two I'd leave as PF + Melta + Melta + Combi-Melta.

wtwlf123 wrote:A 2nd Winged Daemon Prince of Nurgle and combi-weapons for your Rhinos.

Yep thats perfect. Maybe some Havoc Launchers on the Rhinos if possible as well.

Second Daemon Prince concurred upon.

HOME!!! New list from suggestions:

HQ: Daemon Prince
1 Daemon Prince Wings + Mark of Nurgle + Warptime

HQ: Daemon Prince
1 Daemon Prince Wings + Mark of Nurgle + Warptime

Troops: Plague Marines
6 Plague Marines + Meltagun x2
1 Plague Champion Power Fist, Combi-flamer
1 Rhino + Combi-flamer

Troops: Plague Marines
6 Plague Marines + Meltagun x2
1 Plague Champion Power Fist, Combi-flamer
1 Rhino + Combi-flamer

Troops: Plague Marines
6 Plague Marines + Meltagun x2
1 Plague Champion Power Fist, Combi-flamer
1 Rhino + Combi-flamer

Heavy Support:
2 Obliterators

Heavy Support:
2 Obliterators

I had to make the champions combi meltas instead of a plasma gun to fit the 1500pts, the list is 1498, i am quite happy with it unless there is something others see that i can improve upon, thanks to those who have helped so far.

Nope. Quality list.

That's almost identical to my 1500 Nurgle list. I'd run combi-meltas instead of combi-flamers on the Champs though, and I'd run one squad as double plasma w/ no combi-weapon. It's the same number of points and it makes for a better "home objective camp" when you've got the double plasma backing them up.

I think thats a pretty solid list though overall at 1500 points. Should be tought to kill

Always run your daemon princes in pairs. The MoN warptime package is nice, just don't forget to roll it every turn like I do! Oblits are very nice, as are AC/LC preds if you're looking for more mech. The meltas are a must on the plagues as are the PF, so you got that right, but unless you're planning on deep striking the oblits, I'd drop the icons. As for adding berzerkers, it's really up to you. I don't run them in my lists very often.

wtwlf123 wrote:That's almost identical to my 1500 Nurgle list. I'd run combi-meltas instead of combi-flamers on the Champs though, and I'd run one squad as double plasma w/ no combi-weapon. It's the same number of points and it makes for a better "home objective camp" when you've got the double plasma backing them up.

I agree. seems like a good list over all nice and tough

i like it alot!! very well put together, tough, lots of threats! about as good as it gets for chaos!

Looks solid. Are you going for a pure Nurgle theme? I think 1 unit of berserkers could be nice. What I did was buy the battleforce, and I converted the regular space marines by plaguing them up by adding zombie heads, green stuff and guitar strings. Used the possessed bitz for things like powerfists. I then added 2 daemon princes, 2 rhinos and a box of termies which I converted with IG bitz to Oblits. Fairly cheap $250-$300ish force.

Nope it's not a perfect list. Those Champions are costing waaay too much points in fact those Champions are costing 73 points each! and for what a power fist and combi flamer! bah! You drop all of those you net 219 points back which pays for another unit of Plague Marines identical to the others, and lets face if you're low on troop numbers. Then it would be the perfect list.

I think the PF Champs are a must on PM squads. They have good survivability, but no killing power without one. Getting Tarpitted by a single MC or Walker is a bigger waste of your points than a Champ w/ PF.

Why are they a must? They cost 73 points and what do they add to the squad, a power fist? If a unit gets tarpited by a monstrous creature or walker the unit will be mostly dead before the first strikes and against a monstrous creature it will only do X amount of the wounds, the monstrous creature will live and finish them off next round. Why also you letting walkers into assault for? A power fist is not a defensive weapon, it's a offensive and against vehicles mostly where intiative doesn't matter. Plague Marines should be shooting and tarpiting a unit with T5 FnP a walker or monstrous creature won't care about that stuff anyway.

I've had nothing but success with them in combat. They're so good against MEQ. Especially MEQ with other power fists. The squad survives long enough in combat that you can really capitalize on having that PF in there. And there's so many more things you can comfortably attack if you have one in there. I've played a ton of games with and without PF Champs, and I much prefer their performance when they're in there.

Well just because you've had success doesn't mean they actually work well over all. A Champion has 2 attacks base so agaisnt MEQ you hit once and wound once, awesome you've just killed a Marine for 73 points. There's 6 Plague Marines in these units (no need to be 6 anyway) and probably lost 1-2 of these. I wouldn't call that success so far. Survival of the squad thanks to the power fist is marginal and not worth 73 points.

If you prefer them then cool, but they're not worth the points and won't do a fat lot against anything. The squad will be either dead or seriously managled if a power fist is in that unit. Anything attacking Plague Marines would be a swarm with crap load of attacks of power weaps to get over the feel no pain.

I dunno i thik its more of a personal preferance, i have ran PMs with out a PF and with a PF i prefer it with but then again i also use my PMs defensivly and with plasma guns. I could see where taking a PF with melta guns is good for hunting tanks and the like. Again my two cents is its all up to preference. But the Competitive players think its neccessary to have one. *shrug*

@mercer what do you think about zerkers with a PF?
OP sorry for the minor thread jack :(

when you say no reason to have 6 do you believe there should be more PM to join the Champions? and what number do you recommend - @mercer.

I think the PF might be helpful, and only because with the list i have above i dont really see it being really defensive so i will need stronger attacks in CC to be truely effective if in that situation.

alabamaheretic wrote:I dunno i thik its more of a personal preferance, i have ran PMs with out a PF and with a PF i prefer it with but then again i also use my PMs defensivly and with plasma guns. I could see where taking a PF with melta guns is good for hunting tanks and the like. Again my two cents is its all up to preference. But the Competitive players think its neccessary to have one. *shrug*

@mercer what do you think about zerkers with a PF?
OP sorry for the minor thread jack :(

Well power fists don't get with plasma guns because you cannot charge so you're a defensive stance (which you've acknowledged) and you will take damage before you use that fist. Only time a fist is good is against none walker vehicles as they cannot hit you back. No competitive player thinks it's neccessary to take one because every competitive player knows they cost too much points with little return and a competitive player would not be in a situation where others think a power fist is required

Power fist with Berzerkers probably would be ok. See it's different with Plague Marines because they are in a shooting role while Berzerkers are assault. Not only that but a Skull Champion is S9 when charging and has several more attacks so stands a much greater chance.

GreyTauKnight wrote:when you say no reason to have 6 do you believe there should be more PM to join the Champions? and what number do you recommend - @mercer.

I think the PF might be helpful, and only because with the list i have above i dont really see it being really defensive so i will need stronger attacks in CC to be truely effective if in that situation.

Plague Marines are minimum squad of 5 and you can get 2 specials. The 6th dude is adding nothing to the unit besides another number and points. I've ran 5 man Plague Marine units and at least them been shot at they can take some punishment plus are fearless. In combat they can hold units up too, it's just against power weaps etc which destroys them.

If you drop the power fist from each unit that's another unit and then a Plague Marine from each unit would be 69 points.

This post on my blog explains in detail why power fists do not belong on Champions. In summary they do not have enough hitting attacks, cost too much and shouldn't be in a defensive situation to use a power fist in the first place. http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2011/07/tactica-why-power-fists-do-not-belong.html I hope that helps to understanding my point. I've used power fists on Champions many many times in the past and all they do is cost points and not actually kill a fat lot.

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences w/ PF on Champs. They've been very good for me, and after playing the squads both ways, I couldn't imagine going w/out them. There's just so many more things you can do with the squad when you have the higher power attacks that prevent saves. The squads survive so long that I get lots of PF attacks in, and they can break the stalemates against other MEQ squads w/out them. I'm not trying to convince you to use them, because clearly the haven't worked for you. But I will continue to run them because they've been invaluable in so many situations.

Fairly straight forward Nurgle list. Exactly what I run.

wtwlf123 wrote:Sounds like you've had some bad experiences w/ PF on Champs. They've been very good for me, and after playing the squads both ways, I couldn't imagine going w/out them. There's just so many more things you can do with the squad when you have the higher power attacks that prevent saves. The squads survive so long that I get lots of PF attacks in, and they can break the stalemates against other MEQ squads w/out them. I'm not trying to convince you to use them, because clearly the haven't worked for you. But I will continue to run them because they've been invaluable in so many situations.

It's not experiece but a fact. A Champion only gets 2 attacks and you're only going to hit one of them, not exactly MEQ stomping. If you want to use then that's obivously your choice.

Well, it's not fact. They've been very good here, so your assessment is your opinion, and not "fact" at all. If I'm killing 3-4 MEQs a game with a PF, than it's paying for itself. Same goes for destroying walkers, vehicles, wraithlotds, or anything else I'd be unable to damage in combat w/out them. You don't have to use them. But it's not "fact" that they're bad when clearly they've been good for other people. A lot of other people.

Well it is a fact that they hit 1 out of 2 attacks. Killing 3-4 MEQ isn't impressive. Like I said if you want to use power fist then that's cool.

Or a vindi. Fan of the model and it has always served me well. That way, you have another target that will prevent your rhinos from being the first to go.

I would strongly suggest some berzerkers

would any one think that replacing 2 oblits with a defiler as a bad idea?

honestly its up to you, i prefer oblits but if you want to run a defiler (they are fun to paint) then do it. my question to you is are you trying to be competitive or fluffy or a happy medium?

I am trying to have fun I'm not a competitive player but I still enjoy winning so I guess a happy medium