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doc21 wrote:The current SW codex says on page 28:
"Listen but closely my brothers, for my life's breath is all but spent. There shall come a time far from now when our chapter is dying, even as I am now dying......."

sounds pretty much like a deathbed speech to me. lol

Considering we know he went into the Eye i have a feeling this is just him being melodramatic more than anything...

DarknessEternal wrote:

DrChaos wrote:I have heard (though have no evidence of) khan may have been captured by Dark Edar and is now one of their gladiator.
could a Primarch really be held so easily?

Angron was.

yeah but not for the dark eldar, Angron was just on a human planet

thenoobbomb wrote:Leman is lost, as is Vulcan. And The Lion is in coma or something.

yep. Basically this.
Angron was banished and is now mad at everyone for getting him banished.

The Gladiator could also be Russ or Corax, perhaps even Alpharius or Omegon. They are all 'whereabouts unknown'.

I agree with the earlier posts, Vulkan is classed as missing as there is no concrete proof of his death, in that noone saw a body. However like the soldiers killed in shell blasts in WWI, hes lost in action.

heresy4life wrote:The Gladiator could also be Russ or Khan (CORAX is in the eye of terror he is looking for Russ), perhaps even Alpharius or Omegon. They are all 'whereabouts unknown'.

I agree with the earlier posts, Vulkan is classed as missing as there is no concrete proof of his death, in that noone saw a body. However like the soldiers killed in shell blasts in WWI, hes lost in action.

But the wierd thing is Vulkan then said "I AM AGAINST THE CODEX ASTRATES!"
Then nothing was heard about him ever again. Its very confusing story line, because he is there one moment then he is missing the next moment.

Vulcan survives the Heresy and dissapeared afterwards, he is stated as being one of the most outspoken (alongside russ) against the introduction of Codex astartes which was introduced long after the events of istvaan V. My guess is GW are awaiting a suitably dramatic moment for his re-appearance in the HH series.

Dorn is also possibly (pinch of salt included) alive due to the fact that they found no body just his hand after he single handedly cleared the bridge of a chaos battlebarge. He is believed dead but it is sort of left open.

with reguards to Russ all Bjorns fluff states that russ left him behind, not in a died sense but in a went off without him sense, The quote from the SW dex is old and ward probably only included it cos he thought it sounded badass (which it does) not because it was relevent fluff, all recently written fluff BL in particular implies that he went to find the tree of life or something, The great hunts periodically organised to find him certainly suggest the wolves believe him to still be kicking about somewhere.

Personally I believe a Primarch is impossible to wound badly enough to cause them to die later, they are capable of healing from practically anything that doesnt kill them outright.

Could be duff fluff!

Or perhaps the Salamanders Legion objected (whoever was in charge in Vulkan's absence) and in the confusion during and after the heresy, that has been misintrepreted as 'Vulkan' said.

Dorn is dead. They have his body and everything.
Not sure what you mean by "Ward probably only included it 'cos he thought it sounded badass" to my knowledge Ward had nothing to do with the SW codex.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:Vulcan survives the Heresy and dissapeared afterwards, he is stated as being one of the most outspoken (alongside russ) against the introduction of Codex astartes which was introduced long after the events of istvaan V. My guess is GW are awaiting a suitably dramatic moment for his re-appearance in the HH series.

Dorn is also possibly (pinch of salt included) alive due to the fact that they found no body just his hand after he single handedly cleared the bridge of a chaos battlebarge. He is believed dead but it is sort of left open.

with reguards to Russ all Bjorns fluff states that russ left him behind, not in a died sense but in a went off without him sense, The quote from the SW dex is old and ward probably only included it cos he thought it sounded badass (which it does) not because it was relevent fluff, all recently written fluff BL in particular implies that he went to find the tree of life or something, The great hunts periodically organised to find him certainly suggest the wolves believe him to still be kicking about somewhere.

Personally I believe a Primarch is impossible to wound badly enough to cause them to die later, they are capable of healing from practically anything that doesnt kill them outright.

It could also be that dorn was captured and they just replaced the area with a body of a imperial fist burnt it to a crisp and wrote dorn all over him.

Russ is still alive and kicking we know that for a fact.

Khan is with the dark eldar, though they love the fact they can torture him and he feels no pain but sometime he has to break.

Night Haunter is Dead. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Horus dead.

Corax is in the eye of terror searching for his brothers who are still loyal to the imperium,

Raulmichile wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:While Vulkan is believed by some to have died at the Dropsite Massacre, there is fluff which indicates that he was seen afterwards. In particular, it has been stated that Vulkan opposed the Codex Astartes, despite the fact that it was written and presented after his "death". In addition, no body was ever recovered, and more importantly to my mind, none of the Chaos Primarchs, nor any Chaos-related individual at all, ever claimed credit for killing him. He was last seen by his own Legion being dogpiled by ordinary, run of the mill Traitor Marines. Seems to me that if someone had managed to kill Vulkan they would have crowed about it afterward. Seems far more likely that Vulkan managed to survive the Dropsite Massacre somehow.

There is also...

Spoiler:

... a short story in the last Heresy book in which the main character (a grunt form the Salamanders Legion) sees with his own eyes how his Primarch was nuked to death by an Iron Warriros barrage.

I agree, Vulkan is pretty safely stated as KIA. He gets nuked by a barrage on Istvaan, is not seen again in the battle, and is not among those who leave with Corax, and no one ever visits that virus-blasted planet again.


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Ugly Green Trog wrote:Personally I believe a Primarch is impossible to wound badly enough to cause them to die later, they are capable of healing from practically anything that doesnt kill them outright.

The Anathame "fatally wounded" Horus. The Lion was "fatally wounded" by Luther. Guilliman was "fatally poisoned". Some fluff describes Russ's wounds as "fatal" when he left for the Eye.

DrChaos wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

DrChaos wrote:I have heard (though have no evidence of) khan may have been captured by Dark Edar and is now one of their gladiator.
could a Primarch really be held so easily?

Angron was.

yeah but not for the dark eldar, Angron was just on a human planet

You asked if a Primarch could be held so easily. I pointed out that Angron was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omegus wrote:
I agree, Vulkan is pretty safely stated as KIA. He gets nuked by a barrage on Istvaan, is not seen again in the battle, and is not among those who leave with Corax, and no one ever visits that virus-blasted planet again.

Vulkan didn't disappear until after the Heresy. He was noted to oppose the Codex Astartes which didn't occur until after the traitors were routed.

Continuity error is erroneous.

Raulmichile wrote:It is in the last compilation of short stories in the HH series. Age of Darkness is the name of the book. The name of the story escapes my mind but is a Salamanders story of a marine and his endeavours some couple of years after the Drop Site Massacre.

Wow..so they killed Vulkan in a Short Story..holy gak..thats almost as bad as someone important getting killed "off screen" :/

DarknessEternal wrote:Angron was.

Angron is a pansy with a bad temper

Asherian Command wrote:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:Vulcan survives the Heresy and dissapeared afterwards, he is stated as being one of the most outspoken (alongside russ) against the introduction of Codex astartes which was introduced long after the events of istvaan V. My guess is GW are awaiting a suitably dramatic moment for his re-appearance in the HH series.

Dorn is also possibly (pinch of salt included) alive due to the fact that they found no body just his hand after he single handedly cleared the bridge of a chaos battlebarge. He is believed dead but it is sort of left open.

with reguards to Russ all Bjorns fluff states that russ left him behind, not in a died sense but in a went off without him sense, The quote from the SW dex is old and ward probably only included it cos he thought it sounded badass (which it does) not because it was relevent fluff, all recently written fluff BL in particular implies that he went to find the tree of life or something, The great hunts periodically organised to find him certainly suggest the wolves believe him to still be kicking about somewhere.

Personally I believe a Primarch is impossible to wound badly enough to cause them to die later, they are capable of healing from practically anything that doesnt kill them outright.

It could also be that dorn was captured and they just replaced the area with a body of a imperial fist burnt it to a crisp and wrote dorn all over him.

Russ is still alive and kicking we know that for a fact.

Khan is with the dark eldar, though they love the fact they can torture him and he feels no pain but sometime he has to break.

Night Haunter is Dead. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Horus dead.

Corax is in the eye of terror searching for his brothers who are still loyal to the imperium,

Russ is in the Eye isn't he, anyway Sanguinus kicks every one's butt.

Divine Comedy wrote:Russ is in the Eye isn't he, anyway Sanguinus kicks every one's butt.

Well..except Horus'

DarknessEternal wrote:

DrChaos wrote:I have heard (though have no evidence of) khan may have been captured by Dark Edar and is now one of their gladiator.
could a Primarch really be held so easily?

Angron was.

Angron was a gladiator but he wasn't held captive by Dark Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anybody know anything about Magnus the Red's current where abouts and what he is now? I've heard hes a daemon prince but he seems stagnant now in the 40k universe as Ahriman is the only person wondering about from the original 1k sons

The old background concerning Vulkan is now at odds with what we've seen so far in the HH series...

...but then, so are a lot of things, and many NOT for the better!

Spartan 117 wrote:Does anybody know anything about Magnus the Red's current where abouts and what he is now? I've heard hes a daemon prince but he seems stagnant now in the 40k universe as Ahriman is the only person wondering about from the original 1k sons

Last time Magnus was seen was in Battle of the Fang, where

So do we think the loyalist primarchs can/will return?

Basically, what's more dangerous? A vicious trained attack dog, or a vicious rabid one?

For whatever it's worth, both Legions are animals.

KillThemAll wrote:Not only show's Russ' fighting ability (lasted more than a week) but also his sudden and enlightened understanding of their actions. Lion El' Johnson jumped to a hasty conclusion and won with a dishonorable and p_ssy sucker punch while Leman Russ had his guard down because he realized the whole thing was immature.

That is not the only time the Lion resorts to a "dishonorable and pussy sucker punch", as he did the same thing against the Night Haunter (except he gutted him with his sword). Of course, he still got his brains bashed in, so maybe fighting a week against the Lion is not a very impressive feat.

Mr. Burning wrote:But basically to sell books each legion/chapter is 'most pwoerful evar!' except for the Ultras, they are bestest - according to the BL.

That's because Ultras ARE the bestest. The and their successors probably best represent the Emperor's vision for the Astartes. Peerless warriors that follow orders to the letter, are not prone to battlefield excesses, and actually leave the worlds they conquer better than they found them.

moonshine wrote:Oh and who would win in a fight : Angron vs Russ ?

I would say probably Angron was the most dangerous in close combat of all the Primarchs, with the possible exceptions of Horus and Sanguinius. Curze considered Angron extremely dangerous, Curze whooped the Lion's ass, while the Lion fought Russ to a standstill.

DarknessEternal wrote:
So, Russ walked away completely uninjured, and Magnus was dead. You interpret this as Russ being "hopelessly out-classed"?

You've a strange perspective.

Um, if getting kicked around, scorched and electrocuted, having your heart punched out your back, and having both of your pet wolves that were backing you up pureed counts as "walking way completely uninjured", then yes, you are absolutely right.

If the old fluff about Russ dying when he left for the Warp is still accurate, then these are probably the wounds that did it.

If lexi can be quoted for truth, Khan went to save some of his warriors who were captured by the Dark Eldar and got sucked into a warp portal. Thats all I know, don't really know much about Khan.

Omegus wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:Personally I believe a Primarch is impossible to wound badly enough to cause them to die later, they are capable of healing from practically anything that doesnt kill them outright.

The Anathame "fatally wounded" Horus. The Lion was "fatally wounded" by Luther. Guilliman was "fatally poisoned". Some fluff describes Russ's wounds as "fatal" when he left for the Eye.

Well Guilleman is dead I don't believe he is slowly healing inside a stasis field or any of that crap, he was killed outright then put in a stasis field, plus the anathame is a highly unusual weapon created for the destruction of an individual, plus the fact that Horus was cured means by definition that it wasn't a mortal wound.

The lion is in a coma as I understand it not dead therefore the wound is Not mortal.

Most recent fluff on Russ states that he left under his own power with all of his wolfguard bar Bjorn, He left during the great feast exactly 1 year after the end of the scouring.

Magnus is currently in the warp as of the end of the 41st millenium He was banished there by the Spear of Russ wielded by Ragnar Blackmane, AFAIK the events of the battle for the fang happened long before Logan Grimnar was great wolf.

He was "cured" by Chaos. Chaos does not follow rules of mortality. The Lion's wounds are described as "mortal". I'll find the appropriate citation when I get off work.

Yes, the siege of the Fang took place long before Grimnar was even a twinkle in his father's eye.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

Omegus wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:Personally I believe a Primarch is impossible to wound badly enough to cause them to die later, they are capable of healing from practically anything that doesnt kill them outright.

The Anathame "fatally wounded" Horus. The Lion was "fatally wounded" by Luther. Guilliman was "fatally poisoned". Some fluff describes Russ's wounds as "fatal" when he left for the Eye.

Well Guilleman is dead I don't believe he is slowly healing inside a stasis field or any of that crap, he was killed outright then put in a stasis field, plus the anathame is a highly unusual weapon created for the destruction of an individual, plus the fact that Horus was cured means by definition that it wasn't a mortal wound.

The Anathame is a daemon (or at least chaos powered) weapon. Since Horus was cured as part of a deal with the ruinous powers, it's easy to see how they would be able to patch up his mortal wound. Guilliman OTOH might not be dead inside his stasis field, but there's no way he's healing.

Outside of the anathame though, it seems that primarchs can survive any wound that doesn't kill them immediately. To be cheesy, I think of them like the immortals in Highlander. Unless you actually lop of their head or the like, then they'll eventually heal. Look at the descriptions of what primarchs can walk away from in Savage Weapons, The First Heretic, and The Thousand Sons. So on that basis, I'd say that Vulcan is still alive and kicking. Not to mention that having a primarch killed by a bunch of mooks as a throw away line in a short story would be about the stupidest thing ever.

iDevour wrote:

Divine Comedy wrote:Russ is in the Eye isn't he, anyway Sanguinus kicks every one's butt.

Well..except Horus'

Horus cheated No fair using all four dark gods

Spartan 117 wrote:
Angron was a gladiator but he wasn't held captive by Dark Eldar.

He was held captive by humans. That seems a little more humiliating.

daveNYC wrote:Look at the descriptions of what primarchs can walk away from in Savage Weapons, The First Heretic, and The Thousand Sons. So on that basis, I'd say that Vulcan is still alive and kicking. Not to mention that having a primarch killed by a bunch of mooks as a throw away line in a short story would be about the stupidest thing ever.

The thing is, Vulkan is never seen walking away from the events in those books. So either he's still chilling in Istvaan V, hoping someone will violate the Perditas clause and actually drop by, or he's dead.

He is mentioned as having objected to the Codex Astartes, but that comes from older fluff. I suppose when the HH novels finally catch up to the Scourging, we'll know for sure if he survived those events.

Alpharius wrote:The old background concerning Vulkan is now at odds with what we've seen so far in the HH series...

Not reallly. He was always considered missing and presumed killed on Istvaan, and he always showed back up later. Nothing changed there except to show why he was presumed killed.

Hopefully something will describe why he's able to show back up later. Not from a survival standpoint, he easily could have survived the blast. It's just a mystery how he escaped without anyone knowing about it.

An Iron Hands company shows up all grumpy and looking to pick up the remains of their primarch. Piece of gravy.

That would suffice.