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Drop the Stormraven. You need a more reliable transport like a Land Raider to get those Assassins where you need them. Also fill out your heavy slots with Psyflemen Dreads. I would also recommend you take Servitors w/meltas instead of warriors. You can make a pretty nasty unit if you combine Corteaz with 1 monkey, 3 Servitors w/meltas. I would also recommend the techmarine too. With the techmarines ability to carry various grenades you can enhance your Corteaz retinue. I would also drop the Bro Champion from you list. I personally like the Bro Champion but in your list he is just sucking up points. Dropping him would allow you to give your DCA a LRC after you dump the StormRaven.

Well, I will definitely not be dropping the Stormraven. My lists will be tailored for 1850 or 2000 points. However, I may consider adding a LR to the army instead of my 2nd Stormraven. Plus, If I take a LR, my HS slots ARE already filled with Dreads with the 2 I currently have.

The techmarine is a good point. I've been mulling that over in my head for awhile. Statistically however, 2 jokaero's in a unit is your best option of getting the most out of the monkeys, not having a single one.

The bro champ was a one time thing. Wanted to try him out, and he blew it horribly.

I'm not sure what the servitors have over the warriors besides being more costly and having to be babysat by my inquisitor.

Your list doens't really have a focus. Your trying to do a henchman/strike hybrid, which is fine, but you don't have much from either. Your henchman are further divided by one being assaulty and the other being shooty.

.

bedeporter wrote:strike squads are not crap. Crowe on the other hand, is pretty crap. Unless you base your list around him then he's going to be a free kill point

put him in a transport,preferably a LR or SR and drive pell mell at a powerful 1 man unitt like greater deamons and hive tyrants,disembark,assault.if you win,repeat.if you die use last stand thing and hit on 3+ usually.bye bye warlord class battle titan!

ChaosLordSam wrote:No, you are not, you just need more troops.

As I said before, 4 troop choices at 1500pts. Not that bad.
My Regular list for 1850 and 2000 are:

Sons Of Leonidas
1850

Cotaez - 100pts
Brotherhood Champion - 100pts

5 x Crusaders + 5 x DCA (mounted in Stormraven) - 150
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
6 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 215
5 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 195

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235
Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135

Total: 1834


Sons Of Leonidas
2000

Cotaez - 100pts
Brotherhood Champion - 100pts

5 x Crusaders + 5 x DCA (mounted in Stormraven) - 150
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
2 x Jokaero's + 3 Melta Warriors in Chimera - 167
6 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 215
6 Man Strike Squad w/Halberds + 1 Psycannon in Psyback - 215

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235
Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135

Total: 1989


So this game was like tryin out some of the units on a smaller scale.

looks good,where you get the name Leonidas from,itsd a good one i might nick it off you.im glad to see you didnt leave PAs with swords

The thing I see that is glaring to me, is that you put Jokero, who can hang back and shoot lascannons at range in with models that only work at short range, so, if you are trucking up the field to melta something, the Jokero are wasted points, and if you are hanging back and plinking at tanks with the lascannons, the melta guys are wasted points unless I am missing something.

Also possibly dropping the champion and taking a techmarine with a rad grenade to ride along with the DCA to make them extra nasty would probably help as well.

As far as halberds on strike squads, except for the Justicar, I really can't justify to myself the cost of putting them there when for a single point more, you can get purifiers that have the extra attack on them base plus the ability to light your enemies on fire before combat, plus take twice the amount of psycannons. Generally, I also take a MC hammer on the Justicar of any squad just in case I run into a big ugly or a tank that needs killing

I'm still trying to find a great list that I like for Grey Knights, but I know that my old metal knights all toting halberds are going to be almost all purifiers. Just before I start building a list there is about 700ish points of stuff I want to toss in every list just because it's useful:

Librarian (utility out the wazoo)
Vindicare (4d6 ap1 armor penetration)
Techmarine with Rad Grenade (give vindy 2+ cover save, add extra punch to a melee squad and cheaper servo skulls)
and 2 Psiflemen.

I'm also a fan of 10 man squads with a psiberback, depending on what your opponent is bringing to the battle, combat squad or not, one group can go up the field, the other can stay around midfield and shoot the psicannons, and the razor can either tote around the advancing force, or provide mobile fire support/cover

Norsehawk wrote:The thing I see that is glaring to me, is that you put Jokero, who can hang back and shoot lascannons at range in with models that only work at short range, so, if you are trucking up the field to melta something, the Jokero are wasted points, and if you are hanging back and plinking at tanks with the lascannons, the melta guys are wasted points unless I am missing something.

Also possibly dropping the champion and taking a techmarine with a rad grenade to ride along with the DCA to make them extra nasty would probably help as well.

As far as halberds on strike squads, except for the Justicar, I really can't justify to myself the cost of putting them there when for a single point more, you can get purifiers that have the extra attack on them base plus the ability to light your enemies on fire before combat, plus take twice the amount of psycannons. Generally, I also take a MC hammer on the Justicar of any squad just in case I run into a big ugly or a tank that needs killing

I'm still trying to find a great list that I like for Grey Knights, but I know that my old metal knights all toting halberds are going to be almost all purifiers. Just before I start building a list there is about 700ish points of stuff I want to toss in every list just because it's useful:

Librarian (utility out the wazoo)
Vindicare (4d6 ap1 armor penetration)
Techmarine with Rad Grenade (give vindy 2+ cover save, add extra punch to a melee squad and cheaper servo skulls)
and 2 Psiflemen.

I'm also a fan of 10 man squads with a psiberback, depending on what your opponent is bringing to the battle, combat squad or not, one group can go up the field, the other can stay around midfield and shoot the psicannons, and the razor can either tote around the advancing force, or provide mobile fire support/cover

The reason I threw Melta's in with the Jokaero's is for when things get in my face. Most of the game they were useless, but when he turbo boosted right next to em to unload his guys on my objective, they melta's the transport, blew it up and killed half his guys.

I tried the Vindicare in my list before. He was good, but my dreads out performed him hardcore. Granted, whatever he pointed at died, but it was the same for my dreads (that game). Just felt like over kill. Plus he was really squishy.

what i do is take a real cheap IC and jointhe assassin,and allocate on the IC so the assassin can survive

I run coteaz henchmen spam so I know where you're coming from but your units are really all over the place. I run *almost* the exact same DCA+crusader unit (difference is 6 assassins and 4 cursaders) out of a stormraven as well, and they are typically my mvps in most games, so I think that's fine.

The problem with your jokearo is that they don't mix well. Servitors are fine, because everyone has heavy weapons, but warriors not so much. The one and only buff that aids melta warriors is the range increase, and you can't rely on getting that more than once every couple of games. Other than that, those 2 really don't work well together, because 1 is a short range assault weapon that needs to be up close, and the other is long range and needs to stand still in order to shoot. Jokaero buffs also don't apply to ICs that you attach to the unit, so keep that in mind. The monkeys are rather difficult to work with and it takes careful planning to make them fit in.

As to your strike squads, I have sorry news for you. Building an identical unit of 6 purifiers with razorback would cost you 206, which is not only cheaper but superior in close combat thanks to +1 attack and cleansing flame. Strike squads are not built to assault, they are designed as mid range fire support that is very dangerous to assault. And no grey knight unit should ever, ever, be without a psycannon. SS do exactly 2 things well: fire support and warp quake. Use them for anything else and you will be disappointed.

If you are really desperate to make a close combat theme army, make those strike squads into purifiers. If you want to keep them as basic troops, drop the halberds and give them a cannon instead.

Drop the brotherhood champ too. He adds nothing at all to the army. People take GMs and libbys for a reason, because GMs can grand strat stuff and libbys buff up your units.

I would take at least one Vindicare assasin, or 2 , and stick him in a nice sniper spot.

Well, still working on it, but here's what I have:
Sons Of Leonidas
1850

Crowe - 150
Inquisitor - 25

2x Jokaero + 3x Heavy Bolter Servitors in Chimera - 155

5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons - 146

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Landraider Crusader w/Psybolt ammo - 260

Total: 1829

Trying to follow all the rules of list building, while still keeping my flavor. What I'm learning however is, I can't do what I wanted to do at all. Doing a 1/2 inquisitor 1/2 knight army just will not work for me.

What I need to keep to at least enjoy my army are the vehicles. The more the better. I also want to keep at least 1 Stormraven (already bought it, why waste it.) and possibly 1 more Stormraven or the land raider. I also wanted to work in 1 chimera and 3 Psibacks because I already have the models for them. But that seems to be tough.

I think the worst part is the lack of troops. I know a list of 3 squads of 6 Purifiers would get shut down due to not enough troops. But I DO NOT want to do a Purifier spam list.

Coming on here is kind of a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation. 70% of people tell me the same cut and past answers they read somewhere else which is just the generic list building boring crap. Luckily, 30% of the replies are new and inventive, forcing me to think and re-evaluate my list. I want to become a better player, not just throw down a generic internet spam list.

I hope none of that comes off as rude. I'm grateful for the people who are truly trying to help me evolve my game and my army.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

loota boy wrote:Drop the brotherhood champ too. He adds nothing at all to the army. People take GMs and libbys for a reason, because GMs can grand strat stuff and libbys buff up your units.

Already said I was dropping the champ.

I used to have a libby in my list. I acctually dropped it because of the point cost. Felt like I couldn't fit in enough goodies with the amount of points he soaked up. Dropped him, added a dread. The GM may help me out though with the lack of troop choices. I guess I'm resisting this because I want my list to stand out as non generic. However, maybe that's why I'm getting my butt handed to me :S

Librarian with a couple of powers is cheaper than GKGM. Far superior army boosting powers as well, if you ask me. Especially if you're want to do vehicle spam. A turboboosting raven with a librarian, or a mech line covered by smoke and shrouding is insanely tough to kill.

I still don't like that henchmen unit you made. What exactly are heavy bolters good for other than being cheap? Again, you are clearly relying on getting rending from the jokearo to get anything out of them, else you will be sorely disappointed with their effectiveness. Jokearo weapons and bolters don't mix unless your in flamer range, in which case you probably moved so the big guns can't shoot. Monkeys are fun and can be useful, but you really need to plan around using them, as I said before.

Here is a unit I would run with jokearo, as an example:
5 warriors with stormbolters, 2 jokaero in a chimera with flamer for 150 points. The unit can stand and shoot monkey lasers from afar if it had to, or charge forward and unload bolter and heavy flamers into enemy ranks. If you get the range or rending boost from the monkeys? So much the better because now your weapons are more powerful. But you don't have to rely on getting it to make good use of the unit

Ok, This will be my last post in here. I'll be making an Article. I'm going to challenge myself to play 15 games before the tournament I want to enter in September. But the army list I'm at now (Which is completely different than where I began) is:

Sons Of Leonidas
2000

Grey Knight Grand Master w/ Halberd +2 Servo Skulls, psychotroke grenade - 205
Crowe - 150

5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
5x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons in Psyback - 196
10x Purifier - 3x Halberds + 2 Psycannons, 5x Falchions (combat squaded in LR with Grand Master) - 291

Stormraven w/ Melta and Side Sponsons - 235

Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannons + Psybolt - 135
Landraider Crusader w/Psybolt ammo - 260

Total: 1999

It's a 2000 point tournament.

So, does the ten-man squad combat squad, and 5 go in storm raven and the other 5 in land raider? Also, I would keep the GM with a sword, because it increases his Iron Halo invul sv, so it gives him, essentially, a storm shield in cc. Also, don't take psybolt on the crusador, because it makes the hurricane bolters non-defensive weapons, so you can't fire them all on the move.

hmmmm, that is something I was unaware of. I was trying to think the big picture of upping the assault cannon to str 7, but that makes a lot of sense.

And yes, 5 in SR 5 in LR. I went with the Halberd because with it, I'll strike before pretty much everyone I go up against, including DE characters with Init 7. But definitely something to consider.

with a halberd,a GM strikes simultaneously with broodlords,Deathleaper,Lelith(i think),pheonix lords,and before anything else,not including modifiers such as halberds and FC

as far as im aware,only the keeper of secrets has base I higher than 7,being 10.

In reply to Deadshot, Lelith Hesperax actually has an initiative value of 9, and both the Succubus and Asdrubael Vect have Initiative 8. Both Drahzar and the Archon have Initiative 7 and everyone else is 6 or less.

I'm liking your new list. It may not be exactly what you wanted, but it stays somewhat close while not being the total cookie cutter. It has much more synergy this way.

I still think you would be better off with a libby than a gm though. I think the libbys utility and increased survivability for your land raider unit would be a huge bonus. And make sure you try a few games where you keep that purifier group as 10 and a few as combat squaded to see which you prefer

omerakk wrote:I'm liking your new list. It may not be exactly what you wanted, but it stays somewhat close while not being the total cookie cutter. It has much more synergy this way.

I still think you would be better off with a libby than a gm though. I think the libbys utility and increased survivability for your land raider unit would be a huge bonus. And make sure you try a few games where you keep that purifier group as 10 and a few as combat squaded to see which you prefer

Thank you.
My main reason for going with the GM is versitility. In games where scoring isin't as important, giving 1-3 units re-roll 1's to wound will be awesome. +1 to bring my SR from deepstrike will help out a lot, and he just seems fitting to lead a "Leonidas" like army. I'll throw him with my falchions, and have 20 init 4 Str 6 (double hammerhand) armor ignoring attacks rerolling 1's to wound, and 4 init 7 str 6 (same deal) armor ignoring attacks rerolling on 1's. Seems like a good unit to kill things. Might not throw em up against the toughest DE unit though

Kirjava wrote:In reply to Deadshot, Lelith Hesperax actually has an initiative value of 9, and both the Succubus and Asdrubael Vect have Initiative 8. Both Drahzar and the Archon have Initiative 7 and everyone else is 6 or less.

sorry.am only going by the old stats at back of BRB.thought they would be same or almost same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jamora wrote:

omerakk wrote:double hammerhand

what you mean?

According to the Grey Knights FAQ, Hammerhand can be stacked, so with the unit casting Hammerhand (benefiting the Grand Master) and the Grand Master casting Hammerhand (benefiting the unit) they get a cumulative +2 Str Bonus.

but in assault they are seperate so the bonus wouldnt stack.but if its faq'd then...

It was FAQ'd that psychic powers stack, unless specified otherwise. The grey knights codex states that hammerhand affects the unit and any attached independent characters. So you can stack hammerhand as many times as you like, bearing in mind that each unit or independent character can only attempt to cast any power once.

So a squad of paladins with draigo and a techmarine attached could get a possible +3 strength from hammerhand. Draigo can cast two powers a turn, but if he fails his test he cannot try to cast it again. This rule was part of the BRB FAQ.

Thanks for adding that Bedeporter. I was panicking a little last night when going through the GK FAQ and couldn't find the rule. I knew it existed

Not a huge fan of the last list you posted mainly because of only 1 stormraven. I'm a believer in running multiples them. 1 dies like nothing. 2 can be difficult to handle. 3 can be stupidly hard to shoot down especially with a libby giving them a 3+ save. I run a list with 3 Stormravens and they seem to like staying alive (at least until I have delivered the cargo).

Also I have found through playing against purifier spam that they can be very underwhelming. With strike squads I tabled a guy at a tournament running purifier spam. Why not drop crowe and 2 purifier units (not the big one) and replace them with 2 strikes in psybacks or rhinos. Use the GM to make the other purifiers scoring and then pick up either a vindicaire, another psyrifle dread, or a librarian.

pdawg517 wrote:Not a huge fan of the last list you posted mainly because of only 1 stormraven. I'm a believer in running multiples them. 1 dies like nothing. 2 can be difficult to handle. 3 can be stupidly hard to shoot down especially with a libby giving them a 3+ save. I run a list with 3 Stormravens and they seem to like staying alive (at least until I have delivered the cargo).

Also I have found through playing against purifier spam that they can be very underwhelming. With strike squads I tabled a guy at a tournament running purifier spam. Why not drop crowe and 2 purifier units (not the big one) and replace them with 2 strikes in psybacks or rhinos. Use the GM to make the other purifiers scoring and then pick up either a vindicaire, another psyrifle dread, or a librarian.

You know, for awhile I was flip flopping back and forth between a 2nd Stormraven and a Landraider. If I was rolling with a libby, I can see how the Raven could be better. But to be honest, I just love the look and feel of a Landraider. It seems like they add a psychological factor. Like, " Oh man, I better use all these guns on the Raider, because they're the only one's that can crack it."

As for the purifiers, I hate the idea of purifier spam. I know that's what I'm somewhat doing, and it drives me nuts. But any way I look at it, purifiers are superior. Strike squads aren't as shooty, can't perform how I want them in combat, and cost more to field. I fell in love with my interceptors with falchions when I first got my models. Then, after assembling them realized that they were over priced crap. Now, after trimming down their jump packs, I have purifiers with falchions that way out perform my interceptors. They just fit for me

Tell my stikes that purifiers are superior . They have shot up and chopped up many purifiers! I don't see how they are more expensive to field, unless you are just arming them to the teeth in which case I'll say just go with the purifiers. But for a basic unit strikes are pretty good. I look at them as the "tactical" marine of the GK's. Pretty good at shooting and pretty decent at assaulting. You just have to make wise decisions. Now I'm not saying that purifiers are crap! I think they are really good but I feel like 2 units of purifiers is enough to handle anything. Warp quake is really nice to have .