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Made in us
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought






New York, NY

Horde is not only rare but does not require ap 3 templates. Horde is taken care of by the twin-linked flamers in a vulkan list.

I have a love /hate relationship with anything green. 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Deuce11 wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
xlEternitylx wrote:TBH, I never got that list from the Netz. I made it up! I really like THs, so i spammed that.

wtwlf123 wrote:The LRC is better against hoards, and you can move/fire all of your weapons in the same turn. Seeings as how your TH/SS Termies are going to be rolling out and crushing MEQ in CC, I prefer to take LRCs instead to shore up a weakness of the list. I think they're MUCH better than LRRs.


I don't see it. First, the LR would be moving 12" to get the termies in place. So how can it shoot all weapons? Second, since you are moving 12", the one gun that you would/should shoot would be the AC, as it is much stronger, and puts out almost as much hurt. Third, the LRC's hurricane bolters can only hit 6 at best. A template over a horde however, has an upward of 15-20.

I suppose YMMV, but I would rather run LRR. Less points, more effective w/ termies.


Hurricane bolters are "defensive weapons" because they are S4. Therefore a LRC may move 12 and fire both sponsons as well as either the TLAC or the pintle-mounted MM due to Machine Spirit.
PotMS doesn't let you fire defensive weapons, you can only shoot them at 6" or less. So essentially, at 6" you can fire everything with an LRC, but at 6" you have to choose 2 with an LRR. At 12" it's one weapon either way.
   
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion





An Igloo Deep North in Canada, eh?

wtwlf123 wrote:
xlEternitylx wrote:Third, the LRC's hurricane bolters can only hit 6 at best. A template over a horde however, has an upward of 15-20.


A couple things here. How are you only getting 6 hits with a pair of hurricane bolters? That's 12 shots, and they're TL. You should be getting at least 9 hits.

Second, what kind of player are you playing against where you get 15-20 hits from a single template? That's laughably bad unit placement by your opponent.


My bad, I meant 6 hits per side. I forogt about the defensive aspect, so I can see now more validity to a LRC.

And as for the template, I said it has an upward of 15-20. Against a horde of gaunts, it's easy to get several hits. Most I have got was 18, because they were all clustered together fresh from a tervigon. Rare opportunity, but many more kills than with HB. But again, I forgot the HB can always shoot.

Edit:
Can someone clear this up? Hurricane bolters: can they fire moving 12"? If yes, then see my above post. If no, then my original point stands.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/10 19:57:53


azazel the cat wrote:The best way to play Warhammer 40k is with a pretty girl.
Both players should be using the least durable units possible, with the house rule that all players remove an article of clothing every time you lose a unit, and take a drink every time you kill one of your opponent's units.
I have no idea which army will be triumphant, but I can assure you that everyone wins.
Kain wrote:The best counter to an Eldar Farseer with malefic is smashing them upside the head with their codex opened to any page detailing the Eldar's relationship with Chaos.
 
   
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infinitekarma wrote:PotMS doesn't let you fire defensive weapons, you can only shoot them at 6" or less. So essentially, at 6" you can fire everything with an LRC, but at 6" you have to choose 2 with an LRR. At 12" it's one weapon either way.


OK so it fires everything a 6 inches then. One weap + machine spirit + all defensive weapons.

I have a love /hate relationship with anything green. 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





An Igloo Deep North in Canada, eh?

So LRR becomes the better choice. With the MM added on, you can move 12" and either AC troops or MM vehicles. The effectiveness of a 6" LR? Might as well foot-slog for the speed you're going.

azazel the cat wrote:The best way to play Warhammer 40k is with a pretty girl.
Both players should be using the least durable units possible, with the house rule that all players remove an article of clothing every time you lose a unit, and take a drink every time you kill one of your opponent's units.
I have no idea which army will be triumphant, but I can assure you that everyone wins.
Kain wrote:The best counter to an Eldar Farseer with malefic is smashing them upside the head with their codex opened to any page detailing the Eldar's relationship with Chaos.
 
   
Made in us
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought






New York, NY

for the amount of times my LR has been immobilised I'll take the LRC. At least it has a chance of doing something.

I have a love /hate relationship with anything green. 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Tucson, AZ

xlEternitylx wrote:So LRR becomes the better choice. With the MM added on, you can move 12" and either AC troops or MM vehicles. The effectiveness of a 6" LR? Might as well foot-slog for the speed you're going.


That's not true at all. You only need to move 6" on the approach. You can move the full 12" twice (using PotMS) just like you would with the LRR. Except at the end of my advance, I can move my LRC 6", positioning myself to assault, and fire both Hurricane Bolters, the MM and the TLAC. Instead of just one of those weapons and a template.

There are a lot of other scenarios too, where you can pop off a bunch of 24" shots, or double-tap the Hurricane Bolters w/in 12" of an exposed blob (while also firing both the TLAC and the MM) where you'd be completely out of range with the Redeemer.

My TH/SS Termies are so crushing to MEQ that I don't find a need to try and position a single template weapon in order to get the upper-hand in a fight. However, there are a ton of occasions where the additional firepower has been clutch. I think it's a good idea to magnetize LRC/LRR, for those rare occasions where I build lists I'd rather have Redeemers for, but 90% of the time, I'd much rather have the Crusaders.

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Made in ca
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





An Igloo Deep North in Canada, eh?

I suppose YMMV. In range to doubletap HB? In range for a flamer usually. Moving 6" at a time? Yikes. I couldn't do that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/10 20:18:22


azazel the cat wrote:The best way to play Warhammer 40k is with a pretty girl.
Both players should be using the least durable units possible, with the house rule that all players remove an article of clothing every time you lose a unit, and take a drink every time you kill one of your opponent's units.
I have no idea which army will be triumphant, but I can assure you that everyone wins.
Kain wrote:The best counter to an Eldar Farseer with malefic is smashing them upside the head with their codex opened to any page detailing the Eldar's relationship with Chaos.
 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Tucson, AZ

xlEternitylx wrote:I suppose YMMV. In range to doubletap HB? In range for a flamer usually. Moving 6" at a time? Yikes. I couldn't do that.


You only need to move 6" once. Not all the way up the board. It puts you in position to discharge a ton of firepower over an exposed squad. And like I said before, one template does not equal a TLAC, a MM and two Hurricane Bolters. I can do that after moving with a LRC. I can't do that, ever, with a LRR.

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Sneaky Striking Scorpion





In Beil-Tan High Command, plotting the destruction of the Mon-Keigh.

wtwlf123 wrote:
xlEternitylx wrote:Third, the LRC's hurricane bolters can only hit 6 at best. A template over a horde however, has an upward of 15-20.


A couple things here. How are you only getting 6 hits with a pair of hurricane bolters? That's 12 shots, and they're TL. You should be getting at least 9 hits.


A single herricane bolter consits of three TL bolters so 2 HB's = 6 TL bolter shots. (Unless in rapid fire range)

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Sinewy Scourge





Lodi CA

A guy in my local meta that plays a vulcan lists takes a libby with gate and a large squad of assault termies. They seem to do well against most opponents.










 
   
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Tampa, FL

So I was able to do some testing today with the first draft of the list.

Here's the first draft as a reminder:

Vulkan - 190
Librarian with Null Zone and The Gate of Infinity - 100

5 TH/SS Termies in LRC with MM and EA - 475 points
Rifleman Dread - 125 points

Tactical Squad; MM and Melta, Sarge has Combi-Melta and PF, Rhino - 245 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer, Sarge has Combi-Flamer, Rhino - 215 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer, Sarge has Combi-Flamer and PF, Rhino - 240 points

Land Speeder with MM/HF - 70 points
Land Speeder with MM/HF - 70 points
2 Attack Bikes with MM - 100 points

Predator with AC and HB sponsons - 85 points
Predator with AC and HB sponsons - 85 points

2k on the dot

I played against my normal opponent of DoA BA (Capture and Control on Spearhead), and I did surprisingly well against him. The PFs in the Tac squad and the Flamers on top of all the Bolters absolutely did massive damage against him, way more than I expected! He also did a slightly derpy list fielding some vehicles, I think more of to test how my MMs in the Tac squads would work. Oh yeah, they did amazing. The AP1 is the main winner. Definitely keeping the Tac squads as is.

The Rifleman seemed to not do much, but since it's against DoA, this is kind of expected since FNP kinda screws over non-massed anti-infantry and the Rifleman is more of a transport/MC hunter. I'd need to play against the regulars at my FLGS before I make a determination.

The Dakka Preds, same as the Rifleman. They didn't really do much beyond suppress his vehicles. Again, I'd need to play against the regulars at my FLGS before I make a determination.

I deployed the Attack Bikes badly and they died too fast, so can't really tell what their impact would have done. Need more testing.

I deepstriked the MM/HF Speeders, and they didn't roll too well, even with TL. Need more testing.

The TH/SS Termie Vulkan deathstar is obviously the MVP of the list. Mastercrafted hammers and relic blade and digital weapons on Vulkan just do sheer loads of damage. Vulkan is an MEQ slayer, so good!

I wasn't able to fire the Land Raider before it got blown up after delivering the deathstar, so can't say how the loadout did.

I think I'll have an idea of how the list fares once I test in my FLGS. But so far, I really like how this list works!

 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




San Diego Ca

Play to Vulkans strengths. He is the Force Multiplier.
Vulkan.
Libby, Terminator, SS. Null Zone, Avenger.

Terminators x10. TH/SS. (Combat Squad into the LRs but you can also walk them behind the LRs or DS as 1 unit in KP games).

SternGuard x10. 2 HF, 3-5 combi-melta, SGT w/PF. Drop Pod. Causes lots of havoc dropping behind the enemy popping tanks and torching troops. Forces the enemy to move backwards to kill them.

Tac Sqd. Meltagun, SGT w combi-melta or flamer and PF. I've mixed up heavy weapons depending what I was gunning for..,LCs for mech/MCs, Plasma for Termi heavy (GK) armies, ML for GP. Rhino.
At least 2 more built on the above guides.

LandRaider Redeemer. EA MM.
another one for the other 5 termies.

LandSpeeder. HF/MM
1 or 2 more depending on points left over.

At 2000-2500 this gives you massive twin linking all over the field. Every unit is a primary threat to anything in your opponents army. Flamestorm cannons kill MEQ now. All of them. No saves. What scoring unit?
Vulkan with 5 TH/SS Termies (MC) on the charge mow through anything, including Palladins, except hordes (25+ Orks or 5 IG squads blobbed up with PWs on sgts and commisars...attrition just wears you down over time. But thats what the Flamers are for). Especially if your Libby can get off Null Zone and 'hood' Hammerhand.
Your troops can do drive by melta shots or toast hordes from inside the car. The PF will kill Monsters off (you will lose guys in the combat, but the SGT should stay alive long enough to get the job done).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/12 06:16:38


Life isn't fair. But wouldn't it be worse if Life were fair, and all of the really terrible things that happen to us were because we deserved them?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Tucson, AZ

Ridealgh wrote:
wtwlf123 wrote:
xlEternitylx wrote:Third, the LRC's hurricane bolters can only hit 6 at best. A template over a horde however, has an upward of 15-20.


A couple things here. How are you only getting 6 hits with a pair of hurricane bolters? That's 12 shots, and they're TL. You should be getting at least 9 hits.


A single herricane bolter consits of three TL bolters so 2 HB's = 6 TL bolter shots. (Unless in rapid fire range)


I never said otherwise. In fact, did this even need to be said at all?

In any situation where you can use the template from a LRR, I'm in rapid fire range for the Hurricane Bolters. Right? Right.

- Imperial Fists - 7290
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Take a look at my fully painted armies and terrain! - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/548464.page 
   
 
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