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Just a headsup: I'm using a count-as Vulkan, in case you make any suggestions that are meant to be fluffy.

Here's the current list that I have written up:

Vulkan - 190
Librarian with Null Zone and The Gate of Infinity - 100

5 TH/SS Termies in LRC with MM and EA - 475 points
5 Sternguard in Rhino; 2 Combi Meltas, Sarge has PF - 195 points

Tactical Squad; ML and Flamer, Rhino - 205 points
Tactical Squad; ML and Flamer, Rhino - 205 points

Land Speeder with Typhoon Missile Launcher and HB - 90 points
Land Speeder with Typhoon Missile Launcher and HB - 90 points
2 Attack Bikes with MM - 100 points

Predator with AC and HB sponsons - 85 points
Predator with AC and HB sponsons - 85 points

1820 points

I'm what to add with the remaining 180 points. My first reaction is that I don't have enough troops. Am I correct with this assumption? I also notice a severe lack of fast moving melta beyond the Attack Bikes. Should I change my Speeders to MM/HF configuration?

I have ideas of what to add but not sure of which would be best. They are:

- Thunderfire Cannon
- Dread with 1 TL AC or MM Dread
- Min Tac Squad in HB Razorback (for objective capturing only)

This is an unconventional vulkan list. It really does not play to vulkan's strengths. Maybe you should explain your intended strategy because as is this list is far from "optimized".

Mind showing me what a convential Vulkan list is?

Melta and flamers. Only a fraction of what you're using actually benefits from his special rule.

wtwlf123 wrote:Melta and flamers. Only a fraction of what you're using actually benefits from his special rule.

I can clearly read that, but what does the LIST look like? What units are taken?

AresX8 wrote:

wtwlf123 wrote:Melta and flamers. Only a fraction of what you're using actually benefits from his special rule.

I can clearly read that, but what does the LIST look like? What units are taken?

It looks very similar to yours, it just has meltas, flamers, heavy flamers, and multi meltas instead of missile launchers and heaby bolters.

Bikes can be effective with Vulkan since they can get close with their 8" and 12" range shooting easily, and they can take a high amount of special weapons in small squads.

Whatever, I'll bite (although I've been on 40K hiatus for a few months, let's see if I can still do this)

Vulkan - 190
Librarian with Null Zone and The Gate of Infinity - 100

5 TH/SS Termies in LRC with MM and EA - 475 points

Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer,Combi-melta, Rhino - 210 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer,Combi-melta, Rhino - 210 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer,Combi-melta, Rhino - 210 points

Land Speeder MM/HF - 70 points
Land Speeder MM/HF - 70 points
Land Speeder MM/HF - 70 points

TL Auto Can Dread - 135
TL Auto Can Dread - 135
TL Auto Can Dread - 135


I am not positive on some of the point values. What this list does is maximize the chapter tactics as well as give better, more mobile long range anti-AV in the rifle dreads. The land speeders are your kamikazi units against land raider spam. The tacticals are meant to camp at midboard and fry anything within 24 inches.

I personally, because of the way I like to play, would change the tacticals to ML, Melta, Combi-Melta,TLAC Razorback. That way I could cambat squad & objective camp the ML while moving to midfield with the Razorback. That is my preference.

Others would also likely add drop MM Dreads but I think the meta has evolved past that strategy at this point.

Hope this helps.

Beyond the glaring issues, I'm starting to see how the list forms.

The glaring issues are:

- Can't take Dreads as Heavy Support unless you have MOTF HQ.
- Rifleman Dreads are 125, not 135.
- The Tac squads will be 215, not 210. In addition, it's kind of strange IMO to not have a combi-flamer so there'll be two of the same special weapon per squad.

But hey, you said you haven't played in months.

Dreads - oops. Take two then and 2xdakka pred. The pred will give the dreads mobile cover. Plenty of points to go around.

I like combi-meltas better because it really makes use of the chapter tactics. The flamer is really only there because it is free and helps in the anti-horde department which the list is lacking.

So although some unit point costs were off it all balances out in the end. You still have room to add.

Single land raiders are generally a no no. Some top tourney players have been known to bring the single raider. My personal experience with them is that they get blown up quickly.

Here's my first draft:

Vulkan - 190
Librarian with Null Zone and The Gate of Infinity - 100

5 TH/SS Termies in LRC with MM and EA - 475 points
Rifleman Dread - 125 points

Tactical Squad; MM and Melta, Sarge has Combi-Melta and PF, Rhino - 245 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer, Sarge has Combi-Flamer, Rhino - 215 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer, Sarge has Combi-Flamer and PF, Rhino - 240 points

Land Speeder with MM/HF - 70 points
Land Speeder with MM/HF - 70 points
2 Attack Bikes with MM - 100 points

Predator with AC and HB sponsons - 85 points
Predator with AC and HB sponsons - 85 points

2k on the dot

I don't like single LR lists at 2K points... they're a huge points sink that don't guarantee you much value unless you have other high-end target saturation.

I'd look into a list like this, personally:

Vulkan He'Stan - 190
Librarian in TDA w/ SS, Null Zone & Avenger - 140

x10 TH/SS Terminators - 400
in Land Raider Crusader w/ MM & Armor - 275

Tac Squad x10 w/ Flamer & MM in Rhino - 205
Tac Squad x10 w/ Melta, Combi-Melta & MM in Rhino - 220

Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70
Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70
Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70

Land Raider Crusader w/ MM & Armor - 275
Predator w/ HBs - 85

= 2000 even

There's way too much DE in my local meta to justify running dual LRs, in addition to the fact that I don't like sinking half of my points into two units.

I'd either run two or none. DE or not.

Looking for more suggestions on the first draft.

Here is a nasty nasty nasty vulken list if you want some abuse...

At first glance it doesnt look overpowered or cheezy at all.. It actually looks weak and hopeless.. But in the hands of a good player it is very very deadly. I am still figureing out if this set up works best or using 3 walking dreads and turning one tac squad into a rhino squad....

Sons of Medusa 2000pts
190 – Vulcan
120 – Master of the Forge – Conversion Beamer

215 – Tactical Marines x10 – Flamer, Combi Flamer, Multi-Melta
Drop Pod
215 – Tactical Marines x10 – Flamer, Combi Flamer, Multi-Melta
Drop Pod
195 – Scouts x10 – Powerfist, Combi-Melta, 4x Shotguns, 4x Snipers, Missile Launcher

65 – Land Speeder Storm – Multi-Melta
70 – Land Speeder - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer
70 – Land Speeder - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

180 – Ironclad Dreadnought – Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
180 – Ironclad Dreadnought – Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

150 – Dreadnought – Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer – Drop Pod
125 – Dreadnought – Autocannon x2
125 – Dreadnought – Autocannon x2

100 – Thunderfire Cannon

2000

It is cheesy. You have 5 elites

Gotta drop 2 dreads, sadly

In response to the question about what a convential Vulkan list looks like

2000 Pts – Space Marines Roster

1 Forgefather Vulkan He’stan, 190 pts
1 Kesare’s Mantle

9 Terminator Assault Squad, 400 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x9)
1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)

4 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 195 pts (Combi-Meltagun x2; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

4 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 195 pts (Combi-Meltagun x2; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

Or

1 Forgefather Vulkan He’stan, 190 pts
1 Kesare’s Mantle

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 340 pts (Combi-Meltagun x6; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 340 pts (Combi-Meltagun x6; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 335 pts (Combi-Meltagun x5; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 215 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Flamer x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 215 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Flamer x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 215 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Flamer x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

DISCLAIMER lists courtesy of YTTH

Those should give you some ideas. It seems that you are not too far off from the first one.

Playing Vulkan is about maximizing the return you get on his special ability

Hashbeth wrote:It is cheesy. You have 5 elites

Gotta drop 2 dreads, sadly

The Master of the Force gives him Dreads are Elites or Heavies, his choice, so that's still legal.

wtwlf123 wrote:I'd either run two or none. DE or not.

Generally agree.

Oh how I hate the internet.... *durt*a*dur* when in doubts just adds some AC Dreads!!11!yaayyy Dats what da interwebs says how can dey be wrong!!1!!....

Rifleman dreads are over rated especially in a Vulcan list! You don't need 4 TL str 7 shots when got TL melta everywhere.

People seem to forgot why Melta is king. It's not only for the 2d6 on pen charts, it's for the +1 to the damage table! That's what does the killing. But what people are saying about you not utilizing Vulcan, I have to agree with. More flamers and more melta. The codex marines bread and butter is the combi weapons. Your Sargents should all have one don't matter which flamer or melta. I double up flamers personally so my tacticals can take down infantry while my fast attack does most of the tank busting. Drop the Missile Launchers. Your playing a Vulcan list your suppose to be in someones face burning it, melting it, or smashing it!

When I build a Vulkan list, every squad takes advantage of his chapter tactics. He's a 190 point Captain. Make sure you use his special rules in every possible place to maximize his impact on your army.

razorlead wrote:In response to the question about what a convential Vulkan list looks like

2000 Pts – Space Marines Roster

1 Forgefather Vulkan He’stan, 190 pts
1 Kesare’s Mantle

9 Terminator Assault Squad, 400 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x9)
1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)

4 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 195 pts (Combi-Meltagun x2; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

4 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 195 pts (Combi-Meltagun x2; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 230 pts (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

Or

1 Forgefather Vulkan He’stan, 190 pts
1 Kesare’s Mantle

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 340 pts (Combi-Meltagun x6; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 340 pts (Combi-Meltagun x6; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 335 pts (Combi-Meltagun x5; Heavy Flamer x2)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 215 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Flamer x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 215 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Flamer x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

9 Tactical Squad, 215 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Flamer x1)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

1 Attack Bike Squad, 50 pts (Multi-Melta x1)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

DISCLAIMER lists courtesy of YTTH

Those should give you some ideas. It seems that you are not too far off from the first one.

Playing Vulkan is about maximizing the return you get on his special ability

Footslogging TH/SS? Tons of Sternguard?

<insert "Not sure if serious" motivational poster here>

General_Chaos wrote:Oh how I hate the internet.... *durt*a*dur* when in doubts just adds some AC Dreads!!11!yaayyy Dats what da interwebs says how can dey be wrong!!1!!....

Rifleman dreads are over rated especially in a Vulcan list! You don't need 4 TL str 7 shots when got TL melta everywhere.

People seem to forgot why Melta is king. It's not only for the 2d6 on pen charts, it's for the +1 to the damage table! That's what does the killing. But what people are saying about you not utilizing Vulcan, I have to agree with. More flamers and more melta. The codex marines bread and butter is the combi weapons. Your Sargents should all have one don't matter which flamer or melta. I double up flamers personally so my tacticals can take down infantry while my fast attack does most of the tank busting. Drop the Missile Launchers. Your playing a Vulcan list your suppose to be in someones face burning it, melting it, or smashing it!

In the context of a Vulkan list, you are correct in the matter that there's TL melta running all over the place, and the fact that the lowest you can roll is a 2 on the damage table is also a very big thing.

What if I did something like this...

Vulkan - 190
Librarian with Null Zone and The Gate of Infinity - 100

5 TH/SS Termies in LRC with MM and EA - 475 points


Tactical Squad; MM and Melta, Sarge has Combi-Melta and PF, Rhino - 245 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer, Sarge has Combi-Flamer and PF, Rhino - 240 points
Tactical Squad; MM and Flamer, Sarge has Combi-Flamer and PF, Rhino - 240 points

Land Speeder with MM/HF - 70 points
Land Speeder with MM/HF - 70 points
2 Attack Bikes with MM - 100 points

Predator with AC and LC sponsons - 120 points
Predator with AC and LC sponsons - 120 points

With 30 spare points.

My logic with the list change:

Dropping the Rifleman Dread and adding LCs to Predators makes them dedicated transport hunters. Since I have a TON of Flamers in my list, why run Heavy Bolters? The only thing I don't like about LCs is the fact that they're highly subject to RNG, but my rolling is above average, so I think I've got that taken care of.

For a long time I messed with Vulkan lists. Here was my favorite:

Vullkan -190
Libby -Termie Armor, Null Zone, Avenger -125

10 Man Tactical -Flamer, MM, Combi-Flamer, Rhino - 215
10 Man Tactical -Flamer, MM, Combi-Flamer, Rhino - 215
5 Man Scouts -Sniper Rifles - 75

2 Attack Bikes - MM - 100
2 Attack Bikes - MM - 100
1 Attack Bike - MM -50

5 Assault Termies -TH/SS - 200
5 Assault Termies -TH/SS - 200

LRR -Extra Armor, MM - 265
LRR -Extra Armor, MM - 265

Lots of Hammers and MM. Scouts are the only thing odd, but they just camp a close objective, and annoy people with snipers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, looking at your list you just mentioned, two things.

First, why would you put Assault Termies in a LRC? The LR is going to be nice and close to deliver the termies, so use the LRR for Str 6 AP 3 flamers. Nice and close, no cover, no armor.

Second, use your 30 points change, drop a land speeder, and add another squad of 2 attack bikes with MM. 2 shots of MM is better than one.

xlEternitylx wrote:For a long time I messed with Vulkan lists. Here was my favorite:

Vullkan -190
Libby -Termie Armor, Null Zone, Avenger -125

10 Man Tactical -Flamer, MM, Combi-Flamer, Rhino - 215
10 Man Tactical -Flamer, MM, Combi-Flamer, Rhino - 215
5 Man Scouts -Sniper Rifles - 75

2 Attack Bikes - MM - 100
2 Attack Bikes - MM - 100
1 Attack Bike - MM -50

5 Assault Termies -TH/SS - 200
5 Assault Termies -TH/SS - 200

LRR -Extra Armor, MM - 265
LRR -Extra Armor, MM - 265

Lots of Hammers and MM. Scouts are the only thing odd, but they just camp a close objective, and annoy people with snipers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, looking at your list you just mentioned, two things.

First, why would you put Assault Termies in a LRC? The LR is going to be nice and close to deliver the termies, so use the LRR for Str 6 AP 3 flamers. Nice and close, no cover, no armor.

Second, use your 30 points change, drop a land speeder, and add another squad of 2 attack bikes with MM. 2 shots of MM is better than one.

Double Rock Vulkan List! Net list but WHO CARES! I always wanted to run this. It does look like a lot of fun. However I disagre on the LRR over the LRC. Stormbolters seem much more useful than flamestorm and the Massed S4 weapons means that baby is fireing everything all but one weapon at 12 inch move. Much more useful in the usual game than high S templates.

wtwlf123 wrote:I don't like single LR lists at 2K points... they're a huge points sink that don't guarantee you much value unless you have other high-end target saturation.

I'd look into a list like this, personally:

Vulkan He'Stan - 190
Librarian in TDA w/ SS, Null Zone & Avenger - 140

x10 TH/SS Terminators - 400
in Land Raider Crusader w/ MM & Armor - 275

Tac Squad x10 w/ Flamer & MM in Rhino - 205
Tac Squad x10 w/ Melta, Combi-Melta & MM in Rhino - 220

Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70
Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70
Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70

Land Raider Crusader w/ MM & Armor - 275
Predator w/ HBs - 85

= 2000 even

10 termies can't fit in one land raider. they take up 2 spaces each. You would need a land raider with 20 transprt capacity to do that and since they don't exist.....Or are you combat squading them?

Also why has noone said anything about the LRC? I think it should be a LRR instead. Or is there a dakka hatred of them?

Ridealgh wrote:

wtwlf123 wrote:I don't like single LR lists at 2K points... they're a huge points sink that don't guarantee you much value unless you have other high-end target saturation.

I'd look into a list like this, personally:

Vulkan He'Stan - 190
Librarian in TDA w/ SS, Null Zone & Avenger - 140

x10 TH/SS Terminators - 400
in Land Raider Crusader w/ MM & Armor - 275

Tac Squad x10 w/ Flamer & MM in Rhino - 205
Tac Squad x10 w/ Melta, Combi-Melta & MM in Rhino - 220

Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70
Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70
Land Speeder w/ MM & HF - 70

Land Raider Crusader w/ MM & Armor - 275
Predator w/ HBs - 85

= 2000 even

10 termies can't fit in one land raider. they take up 2 spaces each. You would need a land raider with 20 transprt capacity to do that and since they don't exist.....Or are you combat squading them?

Also why has noone said anything about the LRC? I think it should be a LRR instead. Or is there a dakka hatred of them?

The debate on LRR and LRC is really personal prefrence. The LRC is better against geq while the LRR is better against meq.

Ridealgh wrote:10 termies can't fit in one land raider. they take up 2 spaces each. You would need a land raider with 20 transprt capacity to do that and since they don't exist.....Or are you combat squading them?

Also why has noone said anything about the LRC? I think it should be a LRR instead. Or is there a dakka hatred of them?

You combat squad the 10 Terminators dude. That way, they only take up 1 elites slot. In some lists, that can be relevant.

The LRC is better against hoards, and you can move/fire all of your weapons in the same turn. Seeings as how your TH/SS Termies are going to be rolling out and crushing MEQ in CC, I prefer to take LRCs instead to shore up a weakness of the list. I think they're MUCH better than LRRs.

TBH, I never got that list from the Netz. I made it up! I really like THs, so i spammed that.

wtwlf123 wrote:The LRC is better against hoards, and you can move/fire all of your weapons in the same turn. Seeings as how your TH/SS Termies are going to be rolling out and crushing MEQ in CC, I prefer to take LRCs instead to shore up a weakness of the list. I think they're MUCH better than LRRs.

I don't see it. First, the LR would be moving 12" to get the termies in place. So how can it shoot all weapons? Second, since you are moving 12", the one gun that you would/should shoot would be the AC, as it is much stronger, and puts out almost as much hurt. Third, the LRC's hurricane bolters can only hit 6 at best. A template over a horde however, has an upward of 15-20.

I suppose YMMV, but I would rather run LRR. Less points, more effective w/ termies.

xlEternitylx wrote:Third, the LRC's hurricane bolters can only hit 6 at best. A template over a horde however, has an upward of 15-20.

A couple things here. How are you only getting 6 hits with a pair of hurricane bolters? That's 12 shots, and they're TL. You should be getting at least 9 hits.

Second, what kind of player are you playing against where you get 15-20 hits from a single template? That's laughably bad unit placement by your opponent.