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It really depends how you play it, but you have a few options...

If you're all meched up you probably don't need your CCS for much aside from suicide striking targets. I run 2 Melta CCS' in Vendettas. If I'm going first, I almost always go for the suicide scout strike, then back the Vendettas away ASAP. It works well against Land Raiders carrying deathstars and things like that, but also very well against static support units. You order Fire on my Target to make your opponent reroll successful coversaves, then hit him with 4 meltaguns. Odds are you're going to kill a couple of them, and now they've got a unit in their face to deal with, which will hold at least one unit up from advancing for that turn or require the LFs to allocate fire.

Marbo is a similar unit: drop him in, throw the charge, and if they don't take care of him then assault the unit. That AP2 pistol may give one of them a hard time, then assault with a ton of 2+ poisoned attacks.

You could always just hit them with Manticores from afar. The nice thing about this is that they may be pinned (Ordnance barrage inflicts pinning at -1 LD penalty) and sometimes players will cluster up their LFs to get them all into cover. In these cases you may drop the squad simply by inflicting a ton of wounds.


Then there's always the 1-2 punch. In Pitched Battle, a Psyker Battle Squad can hit the opponent's long table edge from your own 12" deployment zone so if you're going first, maybe try doubling up on a single unit. Cast Weaken Resolve on the unit, then inflict 25% casualties (maybe with a melta CCS or something of that nature) and send them running.



As for defensive measures, just understand that Long Fangs can't really do much to AV14 so use your Russes for cover.

Deadshot wrote:Have you tried the Hellhound variat that's AP3?Or any Hellhound variant?

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

I'm surprised only one person has suggested the Hellhound. 12 inch + Template range of cover-ignoring fiery death, and it's a fast vehicle with 12 Armor Front and Sides. The Banewolf has shorter range but would negate MEQ armor.

Bombastic wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Have you tried the Hellhound variat that's AP3?Or any Hellhound variant?

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

I'm surprised only one person has suggested the Hellhound. 12 inch + Template range of cover-ignoring fiery death, and it's a fast vehicle with 12 Armor Front and Sides. The Banewolf has shorter range but would negate MEQ armor.

The problem i see is delivery. are you going to dump a bunch of points into getting CREED!!!!!! just to outflank them?
otherwise they're going to have to fight their way through the rest of the army that the Long Fangs are hiding behind.
then add to the fact that they're going to get their 3+ save, i don't like that option. I'd go with DSing Stormtroopers with
Plasma over the HH and it's relatives.

Yeah, the reason no one suggested Hellhounds is because they suck against Long Fangs. Against Lootas and weimpier stuff, then ok, maybe. But it's still gonna be annoying to get into range without get blasted.

And the Banewolf? To deal with backfield units? C'mon... even with Creed giving them Outflank.... I dunno man.

If they've set up in the corner maybe....but still. Banewolves are not the thing you want to use against backfield infantry.

I tend to Fire all Multi-Lasers at them first, either to soften them up or to force a break check so that I can Weaken Resolve them. Sometimes I'll send in a Triple Demo Charge suicide squad at them =)

I support the Stormtroopers method. They are honestly your best bet and contrary to popular belief are usually worth the points. Even if you happen to take out the LFs before they drop in, they can still harass your enemy armor assuming you give them melta, which is what their entire purpose is about: harassment. It forces your enemy to compensate for the fact that there will be at least 2 squads of melta bearing STs that won't scatter into his line and if he doesn't compensate for it then he'll soon learn to once he sees the aftermath. Whether it is popping vehicles or pissing off LFs and the like, they are a great unit that have always gotten their points back and more for me. It's just all about placement and how you intend to use them.

Triple demo charge unit? What can have three demo charges? I thought special weapons teams can only have 1 demo charge and vets with demo perk can only have 1?

Special weapons squads can have up to three demo charges.

But they need a valk/vendetta to carry them to the target, or somebody else's chimera since they can't buy their own.

Much like the domesticated dog Space Wolf players can be trained. Just think of deploying long fangs out in the open as a puppy peeing on the rug. Send a triple demo charge SWS jumping out of a vendetta against a pack of long fangs out in the open and the results should be obvious: The space wolf player is now sufficiently trained to never pee on the rug again.

That being said in 5th edition I have not fought a space wolf player that has not been housebroken yet. The demo charge SWS is still useful however, mostly for blowing up an entire pack of grey hunters (which are more expensive than long fangs anyways) after they get caught in the open because their rhino got smoked.

odorofdeath wrote:Yeah, the reason no one suggested Hellhounds is because they suck against Long Fangs. Against Lootas and weimpier stuff, then ok, maybe. But it's still gonna be annoying to get into range without get blasted.

And the Banewolf? To deal with backfield units? C'mon... even with Creed giving them Outflank.... I dunno man.

Exactly. It will happen maybe one in 20 battles, perhaps against a new player who does not know what the hellhound/banewolf can do.

I used to take them and have them run with the LC/ogryn chimera towards a corner of the map. Battle experience: Yikes! Here they come! Badoom, badoom. A couple of glances and they are out of the game. Stunned/shaken means they can be ignored for a turn. Weapon destroyed takes out the turret cannon. Immobilized means some screening squad with a power fist or krak grenades can pass by and blow them up on their way to primary mission objectives. So, any damage result is disastrous for the effectiveness of this tank.

I get one shot before the tank is gone. No way they would ever make it to the devs or equivalent. And the enemy will not be wasting dev shots on them, because they are just a chimera hull and now people have a ton of intervening melta or psycannons etc. to do the job.

The issue at hand is not just dealing with long fangs in a vacuum but dealing with the complete Space Wolf package of Long Fangs + las/plas razors + grey hunters in rhinos + thunderwolves. Everything is a threat.

You can torrent down Long fangs by putting in enough shots but getting those shots can be difficult while being able to deal with everything else the space wolves throw at you.

Psyker battle squad is of limited value as any space wolf player worth their grain of salt will have at least 1 rune priest who will be in range of your psyker battle squad likely on their turn 1 or 2. Other then passing your ld 9 check getting by their hood You have to kill enough long fangs to force a leadership check and they have to roll high enough to run off the board. Your PBS is also gonna get shot up right after your Vendettas so not the best choice in my experience.

Collossus is also terrible. With one shot it will kill 3 long fangs if your really lucky one of them being the pack leader. If your not lucky it will scatter and you will likely kill 1 or none. The advancing grey hunters in rhinos will be inside its min range after they move up 12 and collosus will probably only get that one shot as it will get shaken / dead soon after.

Your best bet is to focus on one long fang pack at a time with as many multi lasers, vet auto cannons and hydras as you can. Manticores should be going for thunderwolves because of the strength 10 insta kill otherwise you can direct them at long fangs but this tends to be not that effective given good spacing. If they set up a parking lot and have no Thunderwolves send the Manticore missles at their parking lot. Vendettas should be going for vehicles that can fire back like las plas razors or dreadnoughts trying to supress their fire so you keep shooting.

Has anyone thought about taking some Platoons for long range fire?

Example

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Platoon Command Squad : 125
Meltagun x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Infantry Squad : 100
Commissar
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Infantry Squad : 65
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

The PCS and Vet advances while the Infantry Squad can support them with long rage firepower. Deploy them in cover and you have a durable stubborn unit which can dish out the hurt long range and short range. They can also tie up enemy squads in close combat if needed.

Power blobs are all fine and dandy, but when his long fangs are way in back or up in some building you are gonna have a hell of a hard time getting to them especially with the rest of his army being in the way. What you need is a way to get back there and deal with them with a specialist unit or long range firepower.

I don't know the for it but either use the Basilisk variant that ignores cover or the LR that ignores cover.Long range,wide area,no cover


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kirika wrote:The advancing grey hunters in rhinos will be inside its min range after they move up 12

They can fire directly,ignoring the min range.

I was sorting some old files today and came across some forgotten guard tactics notes that address exactly this question--how can a guard army, which is relatively static, or mobile but slow (AKA chimeras firing on the move) and plays mostly into the center of the table, deal with shooty stuff that's hanging off the back edge of the opponent's deployment zone.

The historical answer from military history is either (1) counterbattery fire or (2) light infantry.

Counterbattery would be a colossus or basilisk, both of which have the range to outrange longfangs, but both of which are also vulnerable to things like wolf scouts or thunderwolf charges.

Light infantry is infantry that deploys in a forward--usually flanking--position, using cover, to harass enemy advance. So for IG that would be stormtroopers, but also Marbo, penal legions (through scout or outflank), a vet unit led by Harker, ratling snipers, or a platoon led by Al Rahim.

I'm not sure that all of those are viable. Penal legions might not be able to handle even a unit of long fangs. But having had experience of deploying space marine scout snipers as light infantry to harass long fangs (and also oblits and devs) I can say that they are really annoying to the target, picking away at them every turn from an out-of-the-way spot that the space wolf player really can't afford to send anything into to deal with them. A couple or three rending hits, maybe a lucky pin for a turn, and the firepower of a tiny longfang unit is really reduced. A Harker sniper unit would be ideal, if expensive, but ratlings are really cheap, really hard to hurt in cover, and BS4.

And of course it seems like Al Rahim could basically swamp anything if he came in on the correct side (astropath handy there).

Collosus can not fire directly read the entry it specifically says they can not fire directly. The single shot scattering and doing nothing happens more often then I would like.

Al Rahim platoon is decent against long fangs but doesn't arrive till turn 2 at the earliest so isn't all that reliable. Most space wolf players will avoid deploying their long fangs so Alrahem's Platoons Chimeras can flame them or assault them if you have a blob. Alrahem is more useful for late objective or table corner grabs.

Best all comers solution I come up to Long Fangs is to run squadrons of 2 Hydras. They put out 4 auto cannon and 3 heavy bolter shots each. This is good against light mech as well. Only problem is there is no Hydra model so you have to convert your own. The easiest way is the Planetstrike Aegis guns but these look terrible. Supplement your Hydras with multi laser fire. I've tried 3 Squadrons of 2 Hydras on vassal and this configuration does the best against Long Fangs + Las plas backs. However I like to have Manticores against hordes and Land Raiders.

To be fair to the colossus, its intended purpose is to wipe out the long fangs, of which the wolf player will likely have 2 separate squads. This means plenty of targets. So, what the rhinos do is something for the rest of the army to worry about and IG has plenty to deal with them. The devs/LF will never be inside the colossus minimal range, so that point is wrong.

Also, depending on deployment, who goes first, and how many rhinos get popped how fast, it may be awhile before all MEQ other than the LF are within colossus minimal range.

Regarding scatter, that is why you take 2, maybe 3 pieces, rather than just one. IG kills by volume of fire, not precision.

Regarding other solutions, mathhammer indicates AC HWS are a ~2x cheaper solution per kill, but are far more vulnerable and require LOS.