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Let the ignorant waste their money

Its like computers. Instead of complaining about apple or best buy gouging prices, I'll just let people do whatever they want to do with their money

Then again I'm buying UMvC3 and Skyrim..... Delicious irony I suppose

<personal attack redacted; it's both OT and impolite --Janthkin>

and i heard that paint might be going to 4.25$

It tends to be a hobby thing. If a product is labelled for use with a hobby it gets a hefty price tag.

Look for a generic equivalent elsewhere and the same stuff is a lot cheaper.

mikhaila wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:But "Own Brand" goods are usually cheaper

This isn't their own brand. It's someone elses with a GW lable slapped on.

That's what pretty much what all 'own brand' products are... It's just whether that 'own brand' range is marketed as a discount range or a premium range that differs from company to company.

mikhaila wrote:

warpgrenade wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

I didn't used to carry 'PVA Glue'. But after years of parents asking for this magical stuff, and not believing that it's plain white glue, I started ordering it in from GW, and it sells on a regular basis.

Stop carrying GW 'PVA Glue'. Find a generic wholesale supplier and relabel it yourself and keep 100% of the markup.

]

Why? The customer is specifically asking for GW PVA glue, and I can sell it to them. With no effort, I can order it in and sell it.

You're suggesting I be deceptive, do more work, and reap the benefits of a couple of bucks?

Alternatively, and this is just a suggestion and no criticism of the way you run your store......but you could spend a few minutes actually educating those people about the cheaper alternatives. It might mean you don't get to order and sell the expensive GW product, but it may garner you some respect and trust from your customers, that might be converted into $$$ when you get their repeat custom.

I would imagine those people you sell the GW stuff to will eventually, if they stick with the hobby, realise that there are cheaper products that do the same thing out there....and when they do, they may (or may not) question why your store didn't clue them up when they were newbs.....they may regard your actions as if you were trying to fleece them rather then guide them from newb-hood to experienced gamer.

Again, not trying to tell you how to run your business, just offering an alternative strategy.

I think the point that Mikhaila was making was that he had tried explaining that the cheaper stuff was the same. The thing is, some people won't believe you. Some people are just wired to believe that 'more expensive' = 'better quality'

Delephont wrote:

mikhaila wrote:........................GW PVA glue.............

..........................................

Again, not trying to tell you how to run your business,........

Are you sure about that? That like saying "no offence but.....". If someone wants little Tommy to have GW glue then let them have it.

Anyway the picture the OP shows looks like it was taken in a Hobbycraft store, which means he was probably no more that 5 yards from 2 litres of the stuff for about a fiver. Hardy seems worth a picture..

daedalus wrote:A lot of times I've seen it as "school glue".

PVA Glue would be technically the most correct name however, and I would think applicable in any situation, given that the glue contains polyvinyl acetate.

School glue is a cheaper recipie which is also thinner. not good for basing.

notprop wrote:

Delephont wrote:

mikhaila wrote:........................GW PVA glue.............

..........................................

Again, not trying to tell you how to run your business,........

Are you sure about that? That like saying "no offence but.....". If someone wants little Tommy to have GW glue then let them have it.

Totally sure about my statement. I'm basing my suggestion on a very limited view of how things are happening at the store. Maybe the customer is a real stinker and deserves to pay full whack, maybe like Insaniak said, the customer wants GW stuff because they think it's better....and on and on.

In light of the statements made, I've made a suggestion, that's all. There's a significant difference between making a suggestion, and trying to direct someone.

I certainly wouldn't presume to tell someone who runs a successful business and has years of experience how to do their job.

notprop wrote:Anyway the picture the OP shows looks like it was taken in a Hobbycraft store, which means he was probably no more that 5 yards from 2 litres of the stuff for about a fiver.

Lol, indeed

This calls for a boycott! Well, finecost called for a boycott...

insaniak wrote:I think the point that Mikhaila was making was that he had tried explaining that the cheaper stuff was the same. The thing is, some people won't believe you. Some people are just wired to believe that 'more expensive' = 'better quality'

It's what the jewellery and makeup industries thrive on, selling cheap stuff for high prices because people don't believe that you can get quality for less. Psychologically I think people need to pay a lot for some thing like make up and jewellery because they need to feel it's cost them something, they don't want to wear something that didn't cost a lot regardless of quality.

Take Gerald Ratner's jewellery shops, they sold stuff fairly cheap but people thought it was quality. Then he said it was crap (which is was), and the illusion was shattered, no one bought the stuff and the company went to the edge.

Ahh "Doing a Ratner".....nice, how to sink a company in two statements or less

Funny though, because in a way you might class some of GW's statements as Ratner-esque.....for example "We're a miniatures company, not a games company"...or words to that effect....should have been the death call for WHFB and WH40K etc....and yet.

Delephont wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

warpgrenade wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

I didn't used to carry 'PVA Glue'. But after years of parents asking for this magical stuff, and not believing that it's plain white glue, I started ordering it in from GW, and it sells on a regular basis.

Stop carrying GW 'PVA Glue'. Find a generic wholesale supplier and relabel it yourself and keep 100% of the markup.

]

Why? The customer is specifically asking for GW PVA glue, and I can sell it to them. With no effort, I can order it in and sell it.

You're suggesting I be deceptive, do more work, and reap the benefits of a couple of bucks?

Alternatively, and this is just a suggestion and no criticism of the way you run your store......but you could spend a few minutes actually educating those people about the cheaper alternatives. It might mean you don't get to order and sell the expensive GW product, but it may garner you some respect and trust from your customers, that might be converted into $$$ when you get their repeat custom.

I would imagine those people you sell the GW stuff to will eventually, if they stick with the hobby, realise that there are cheaper products that do the same thing out there....and when they do, they may (or may not) question why your store didn't clue them up when they were newbs.....they may regard your actions as if you were trying to fleece them rather then guide them from newb-hood to experienced gamer.

Again, not trying to tell you how to run your business, just offering an alternative strategy.

Mother comes in: I need GW PVA glue for my son/nephew/other.
ME: Explanation of what it is and they can get it cheaper elsewhere.
Mother gives me skeptical look, says "So, you don't sell what I need?" Goes away thinking a) I can't help her and b) I'm offering excuses for what I don't have in stock. Decides to buy it (and other products) on the GW website.

It is far easier to stock the GW glue, explain what it is, and then let the customer make a decision on whether to buy it from me, or get something cheaper elsewhere. Many people still grab the GW glue.

mikhaila wrote:
Mother comes in: I need GW PVA glue for my son/nephew/other.
ME: Explanation of what it is and they can get it cheaper elsewhere.
Mother gives me skeptical look, says "So, you don't sell what I need?" Goes away thinking a) I can't help her and b) I'm offering excuses for what I don't have in stock. Decides to buy it (and other products) on the GW website.

It is far easier to stock the GW glue, explain what it is, and then let the customer make a decision on whether to buy it from me, or get something cheaper elsewhere. Many people still grab the GW glue.

Ok, well, theres the key point. I assumed you sold the other PVA brands as well, kinda like Hobbycraft etc. If the only glue you sell is GW branded product then it makes sense you'd want to turn your stock around. I wouldn't expect many business men would willingly send a paying customer away.

Delephont wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

warpgrenade wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

I didn't used to carry 'PVA Glue'. But after years of parents asking for this magical stuff, and not believing that it's plain white glue, I started ordering it in from GW, and it sells on a regular basis.

Stop carrying GW 'PVA Glue'. Find a generic wholesale supplier and relabel it yourself and keep 100% of the markup.

]

Why? The customer is specifically asking for GW PVA glue, and I can sell it to them. With no effort, I can order it in and sell it.

You're suggesting I be deceptive, do more work, and reap the benefits of a couple of bucks?

Alternatively, and this is just a suggestion and no criticism of the way you run your store......but you could spend a few minutes actually educating those people about the cheaper alternatives. It might mean you don't get to order and sell the expensive GW product, but it may garner you some respect and trust from your customers, that might be converted into $$$ when you get their repeat custom.

I would imagine those people you sell the GW stuff to will eventually, if they stick with the hobby, realise that there are cheaper products that do the same thing out there....and when they do, they may (or may not) question why your store didn't clue them up when they were newbs.....they may regard your actions as if you were trying to fleece them rather then guide them from newb-hood to experienced gamer.

Again, not trying to tell you how to run your business, just offering an alternative strategy.

I think it's important to note that, especially given a mall location, a lot of the people asking for this glue aren't actually hobbyists, but the hobbyists parents. Trying to explain to them that they don't really want to buy this glue their son has asked for while they wrestle with an angry two year old in the three minutes they have at the mall before they have to pick up little Englebert from clarinet practice may not be seen as the beneficial act you imagine it to be.

I've got no beef with GW making it or Mikhaila selling it. I'm still going to rip on GW for selling PVA at over a 300% markup.

In the USA GW is quite clever in that they sell 4oz of glue for 8.25 by putting it in a paint tube, calling it PVA and labeling it "ml", all of which most American's won't associate with elmers.

That said, it's more than a little rediculous to ask a hobby shop to only carry the cheap glue. It's hard enough for them to stay alive as it is without asking them to make even less $ off a given product. Ideally a hobby shop would carry both. The regular stuff so that people like me won't buy their glue at JoAnnes. And the GW stuff so that maximum $ can be made from the suburban mom who will buy Jr. whatever he wants to ease her guilt for stopping breastfeeding when he was "only" 4.

Suburban Mom's. Keeping GW in bussiness since 1994.

lord marcus wrote:

daedalus wrote:A lot of times I've seen it as "school glue".

PVA Glue would be technically the most correct name however, and I would think applicable in any situation, given that the glue contains polyvinyl acetate.

School glue is a cheaper recipie which is also thinner. not good for basing.

Huh. Actually did not realize that. I think mine says "All-purpose", but I'll have to doublecheck. Learn something new everyday.

One of our kids has been basing his minis using the glue provided for us by the local council. Which will be the same stuff the kids use in schools.

Not seen any appreciable difference in performance so far.

AFAIK, one difference twixt "school glue" and some PVA types is that the former is water soluble and will soften after it has dried when soaked. (eg if a the glue hardens on a brush it can still be washed out) Others retain there bond after curing.

Oh, its a GW bash thread. I should of known. Laugh at the sticker price and then buy some Elmers for a quarter of that

daedalus wrote:Kellog's Frosted Flakes cost about 25% more than the off brand.

Buying a 20oz soda at a theme park or a pizza place will cost you on average twice as much elsewhere.

Automobile insurance and car loans done at a dealership are more expensive than doing them on your time.

But no, rather than comment on those, or better yet, not comment at all about the obvious, you've done some intense and thorough investigation and uncovered the dark secret TROOF about Games Workshop: They're in it for the money!

Gasp!

Other companies aren't usually stupid enough to drive their own customers away, and usually aren't quite so blatant about it. I remember getting three decent metal models for five quid. Now I get one crappy plastic one for a tenner. If their costs have gone up that much they've managed their business poorly to say the least.

I haven't bought much of anything from GK in years. I buy it all second hand and proxy when I can. That is stupid business. Rather than having some of my money, they chose to have none of it. Do they really think they can survive on selling the odd battleforce to a kid who will most likely never come back? Which, incidently, have increased in price by over 20% in the past year alone. Few companies would do that, because the customer can see the worth of your product dropping relative to the price in a very short space of time. Incidently, if they can sell all that to me (and I still make as saving of around 20/30 quid I think) and still make a profit...why does it have to be so expensive?

That is why their prices are going up. They are selling less and less. The product is getting less and less popular, and their only response is to increase prices for people who are, AT PRESENT, willing to support them financially. They would be better placed if they sought to get their product back into mainstream consciousness (as it was all through the 90's). Then they'd sell more and GASP, wouldn't have to charge their frankly ridiculous prices.

You used to get three rhinos for twenty quid. Now you get one for thirty. I honestly don't see GK being around in ten years time, which is a real shame. Noone to blame but themselves though, they treat their customers like gak.

KingCracker wrote:Oh, its a GW bash thread. I should of known.

Well, yeah... the thread title shoud have been a clue.

The Night Stalker wrote:Seriously does anybody still use the citadel glue products? Everything citadel makes is grossly overpriced from their glue to their figure cases, however I have never felt forced to buy that stuff, there is ALWAYS a cheaper alternative.

Not just overpriced, but of poor quality too. Their superglue goes funny and doesn't work after about five minutes. Locktight costs half the price and bonds in about a second. It also never goes 'off', or whatever the hell the citadel SG does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kronk wrote:

biccat wrote:

kronk wrote:Tapering with labels, specifically with labels on chemicals, can get you time in a state-run facility.

As long as you're only changing the trademark, I don't see the problem.

Do you have an registered MSDS for said glue in your company's name?

Are you a registered with your local state's environmental commission as a chemical manufacturer?

Do you have a license from the original manufacturer to repackage and resell the product under your own brand name?

Do you have a good lawyer?

A free market right? My arse.

mikhaila wrote:I didn't used to carry 'PVA Glue'. But after years of parents asking for this magical stuff, and not believing that it's plain white glue, I started ordering it in from GW, and it sells on a regular basis.

Pure gold, this line

Edit: In most stores I've seen two options: "School glue" and a similar bottle with a different label. Good to know that the school glue is watered down / not the same stuff... I suspected as much and bought the stuff in the same size bottle that didn't say "school".

I was pumped when I saw they were going to release a tzeentch herald on a disc. I had just started a demons army and he was the only model I was going to have to convert.

Then I saw the price ... $38.00. This isn't even a monstrous creature. It's just a box for a single model. I decided to convert and get the most out of my extra 2 models.

Tehjonny wrote:

The Night Stalker wrote:Seriously does anybody still use the citadel glue products? Everything citadel makes is grossly overpriced from their glue to their figure cases, however I have never felt forced to buy that stuff, there is ALWAYS a cheaper alternative.

Not just overpriced, but of poor quality too. Their superglue goes funny and doesn't work after about five minutes. Locktight costs half the price and bonds in about a second. It also never goes 'off', or whatever the hell the citadel SG does.

Completely true. I've used both their super glue and their plastic glue.

I ended up buying Revell plastic glue for about half the price of GW plastic glue, which comes in a bottle with a really handy super thin steel applicating rod. I've had the rod clog once, but otherwise it's held stronger and bonded faster than GW glue. It just smells like complete gak.

As for superglue, I now just use the cheap stuff I see in bargain shops. I think recently I got 12 tubes for $2au, and having used it already, it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

besthegreat wrote:Then I saw the price ... $38.00. This isn't even a monstrous creature. It's just a box for a single model. I decided to convert and get the most out of my extra 2 models.

Archaon is $83 in Australia. A single character on a horse. The same price as a Carnifex. Their finecast pricing can get a bit ridiculous. Thanksfully the stuff I do want in finecast isn't much more expensive than it was in metal.

Tehjonny wrote:

daedalus wrote:Kellog's Frosted Flakes cost about 25% more than the off brand.

Buying a 20oz soda at a theme park or a pizza place will cost you on average twice as much elsewhere.

Automobile insurance and car loans done at a dealership are more expensive than doing them on your time.

But no, rather than comment on those, or better yet, not comment at all about the obvious, you've done some intense and thorough investigation and uncovered the dark secret TROOF about Games Workshop: They're in it for the money!

Gasp!

Other companies aren't usually stupid enough to drive their own customers away, and usually aren't quite so blatant about it. I remember getting three decent metal models for five quid. Now I get one crappy plastic one for a tenner. If their costs have gone up that much they've managed their business poorly to say the least.

I haven't bought much of anything from GK in years. I buy it all second hand and proxy when I can. That is stupid business. Rather than having some of my money, they chose to have none of it. Do they really think they can survive on selling the odd battleforce to a kid who will most likely never come back? Which, incidently, have increased in price by over 20% in the past year alone. Few companies would do that, because the customer can see the worth of your product dropping relative to the price in a very short space of time. Incidently, if they can sell all that to me (and I still make as saving of around 20/30 quid I think) and still make a profit...why does it have to be so expensive?

That is why their prices are going up. They are selling less and less. The product is getting less and less popular, and their only response is to increase prices for people who are, AT PRESENT, willing to support them financially. They would be better placed if they sought to get their product back into mainstream consciousness (as it was all through the 90's). Then they'd sell more and GASP, wouldn't have to charge their frankly ridiculous prices.

You used to get three rhinos for twenty quid. Now you get one for thirty. I honestly don't see GK being around in ten years time, which is a real shame. Noone to blame but themselves though, they treat their customers like gak.

True, but in the early 90s, I seem to recall cassettes being roughly $8.00-$12.00, gas being less than a buck, soda was a quarter, and most magazines listing the CAD price as being double the USD price. Find me a CD for less than $16 from a brick and mortar nowadays.

Having that been said, I'm not blaming it all on economic strife, nor am I claiming there's no profiteering going on. However, having THAT been said, I could say the same thing about crude oil. I'd provide a source, but it'd debilitatingly hard to find a site that will do a chart over time for anything that's not an equity.

----

To be honest, I get it, it's expensive. I understand that. I buy less as a result, especially now, post-Finecast. We all know that GW=$$$ though. It's no surprise, and it annoys me when people regard it as one, especially when they set the OP up broadcasting that fact. "Greed Fest continues" is nothing but flamebait, at best. I'm just burnt out on the hate. What's the point? You can't change them. The constant bitching doesn't add any value to the situation. If you don't like it, then leave GW. Stop buying 40k. Go buy Mantic, go buy Warmachine. Go wherever feels good. You claim GW doesn't want you anyway because they're pricing you out of the market? Fine. Man up and vote with your wallet.

+1 To Daedalus



A tenner for 10 L.... see the internet is not just for pron!