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Ok.. vehicle is open topped, passengers are embarked, Template hits, vehicle is under template, so are passengers by default..... how do they avoid being hit as well?

Because they are embarked on a transport, and thus not actually on the table.

Fluff wise they should be hit.

But by the rules they are not hit, because they are not on the table.

Because Open topped or not you may not shoot inside of a transport. Therefore passengers are not hit by default because you shot a Trukk,Raider,Battlewagon, ETC.

ok... still Templates would be useful in the issue of the OP.... +1 result and no cover saves.....

Sort of a flamer can glance/wreck a trukk if you roll 6/6 not truly useful. Also not really too helpful when an opponent is just not saying whats where so the golden squads didnt get wrecked

It is already accounted for in the open topped modifier for the damage table.

-cgmckenzie

helgrenze wrote:Ok.. vehicle is open topped, passengers are embarked, Template hits, vehicle is under template, so are passengers by default..... how do they avoid being hit as well?

The reasons have been covered, but I thought it was worth mentioning that this same logic would allow you to hit the passengers in a closed-top vehicle as well...

well to me, if it's open topped or has fire points it almost makes sense. I mean it works for buildings

It's a lot easier to go up to a building and put your flamer up to the mail slot than it is to find a random opening of a moving vehicle.

helgrenze wrote:This may be a stupid question, but Template weapons vs Open-topped still hit the passengers, right?

Is it just me or this guy just highjacked the thread?? - Personal attack removed by insaniak -

somerandomdude wrote:It's a lot easier to go up to a building and put your flamer up to the mail slot than it is to find a random opening of a moving vehicle.

not if it's immobilized

maxthecat122 wrote:

helgrenze wrote:This may be a stupid question, but Template weapons vs Open-topped still hit the passengers, right?

Is it just me or this guy just highjacked the thread??

His question was semi-related, and your original question had been answered.

me and my opponent always go over our armies before the game begins so that everyone knows what is what and if there is anything being proxied or whatever is in the transports. I just see it as a way to avoid any problems that may result later in the game like people switching out squads in transports when one of them happens to get popped. The fact that the guy was unwilling to tell you what is where is someone who is more interested in crushingyou than actually having a good time which is the whole point its a game.

Deathsadvocate wrote:The fact that the guy was unwilling to tell you what is where is someone who is more interested in crushingyou than actually having a good time which is the whole point its a game.

That's not actually necessarily true. I've come across a few players over the years who preferred to keep the contents of their transports secret purely for the element of surprise, because they felt it was more realistic. They weren't being WAAC players... just felt that it added a little more tactical depth to the game.

While it certainly can be abused, against opponents you trust it can be a fun twist to the game.

done that before, It's the reason each of my chimeras and vendettas are slightly diferent, so i can write down what is in where ... otherwise I'll forget

Even if it isnt actually "realistic" to hide the contents - ask any sigint guy

I like the element of surprise in a closed list game. That said however, it's made obvious its a closed list game.

WYSIWYG is pretty much a must though, and you have to trust the other guy quite a bit.

Maxthecat-- Your OP mentions that your opponant chose to not tell you what was in his trukks. Some feel it is fine, others do not. The main reason for informing your opponant what is in what vehicle is to prevent them from playing the shell game on you.
My question about template weaopns was meant to clarify a point and suggest that dropping some blast templates on his trukks would make the passengers have to walk the rest of the way.
Most armies have some kind of template weapon. And A10 trukks are fairly easy to pop at range.

When in doubt, make them walk.

helgrenze wrote:
My question about template weaopns was meant to clarify a point and suggest that dropping some blast templates on his trukks would make the passengers have to walk the rest of the way.
Most armies have some kind of template weapon. And A10 trukks are fairly easy to pop at range.

What do you think template/blast marker weapons do differently to open-topped vehicles?

DarknessEternal wrote:

helgrenze wrote:
My question about template weaopns was meant to clarify a point and suggest that dropping some blast templates on his trukks would make the passengers have to walk the rest of the way.
Most armies have some kind of template weapon. And A10 trukks are fairly easy to pop at range.

What do you think template/blast marker weapons do differently to open-topped vehicles?

don't have it to hand but I'm fairly that last edition open topped = vulnerable to blasts (so 1 hit becomes 2)

I have the perfect response to that, When players i play do that i end up being even a bugger douche, and just to make them pay for being a Stuck up WAAC, i have gone as far as not stating what is in mine, and even though a certain unit was in it, I claimed another was upon deployment and then shot them up,

E.g. I was playing a Tau and he refused to tell me what he had in his DFs, So i poped a raider beside him, was suppose to have wyches, but ended up just deploying a squad of 4TB with blasters to blow it up and kill everything inside.

Now i don't usually play like this and i don't condone cheating like that, as it is poor sportsmanship, but in some cases when your playing a complete douche bag it just feels good to make them pay and have my fun at the same time. my advice would be to just not play him until he goes and reads the rules and learns some good conduct.

I was thinking about this and how it'd be easy for a dick player to cheat.

You blow up a transport and the unit takes damage inside, he switches the unit.

So before the battle, if he or she wants it to be a secret, tell them to write down the contents of each transport on a seperate sheet of paper. When that transport in question disembarks or is destroyed, etc etc then ask to see the sheet as proof.

I think it's pretty bull to not tell your opponent, especially if it's an open topped vehicle but I guess it isn't cheating.

Kijamon wrote:I was thinking about this and how it'd be easy for a dick player to cheat.

You blow up a transport and the unit takes damage inside, he switches the unit.

So before the battle, if he or she wants it to be a secret, tell them to write down the contents of each transport on a seperate sheet of paper. When that transport in question disembarks or is destroyed, etc etc then ask to see the sheet as proof.

I think it's pretty bull to not tell your opponent, especially if it's an open topped vehicle but I guess it isn't cheating.

which is why each transport need to be properly marked ... One model from the unit in or on top.

Lobukia wrote:If these were open top trukks, I can't see any club viewing any sort of secrecy as kosher.

Open-topped is nothing to do with it. The rule book suggests that you can play with contents of transports being secret if both players agree to it.

cgmckenzie wrote:Putting a marker in each trukk that matches the squad but having it face down is an appropriate way to be secret. Once you POP it or he gets out, he shows you and the game moves on. I like having secrecy in my transports but I don't play the hell game.

-cgmckenzie

This seems far more fair than the "I demand you give me information about exactly which of your vehicles I should focus on and which I should ignore, despite there being no rational reason my guys would have that information" approach.

Actually it IS the default approach, so unless you decide otherwise you must state what is where,

Its also very, very realistic.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Even if it isnt actually "realistic" to hide the contents - ask any sigint guy

Sounds like my cue. Former sigint and imint guy here. During an exercise at Fort Hood, our intell unit told the unit commander where all his vehicles were, what units they belonged to, and in some cases, all the way down to the driver's name. And this was in the late 80s, so imagine what we could do now......................

And having had an Ork player try to pull the shell game on me at a GW GT, I'm definitely all for full disclosure.

So it is your opinion, don mondo, that orks and tyranids have the intelligence capability of the US military? And some magic x-ray vision that tells them exactly who is in what vehicle?

The default practice that I have seen is that you must declare which vehicle an independant character is in, but other than that, you need to pop it to find out.

Forcing your opponent to reveal which units are in the tank seems kind of weak.

Yet, if youd read the thread, you would know that the rules are against you on this.

The default is FULL disclosure.

Tri wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

helgrenze wrote:
My question about template weaopns was meant to clarify a point and suggest that dropping some blast templates on his trukks would make the passengers have to walk the rest of the way.
Most armies have some kind of template weapon. And A10 trukks are fairly easy to pop at range.

What do you think template/blast marker weapons do differently to open-topped vehicles?

don't have it to hand but I'm fairly that last edition open topped = vulnerable to blasts (so 1 hit becomes 2)

Sure, but it does exactly nothing in this edition.