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I'd like to see some decent fast attack options.

Small, Far Away wrote:They should get And They Shall Know no Fear, or a renamed version. This is more of a fluff point, the reasoning being-why do Marines become more cowardly when they become evil?

Also, it would give some viability to the standard CSM.

They don't have faith in the God Emperor, so they lose out on that. Instead they get more tangible bonuses, like +1 Toughness through Nurgle, +1 Attack through Khorne, etc. It's a balancing point that makes them distinct from Codex: Space Marines and as a player of both armies I like that.

Commisar Von Humps wrote:GW Should Just buy JustDave's or hire him.

I at least hope they adopt a similar system. None of this Independent Character rubbish, proper Legion rules. Each HQ choice takes one Legion rule, it adds one universal rule and also changes the FoC in some way or unlocks a specific unit. For example, taking the Iron Warriors Legion rule makes this HQ choice a Warsmith. He gains such and such wargear and rule. Siege Dreadnought unlocked as a HS choice. Havocs are now Troops, only one of which can count towards minimum FoC requirements.

At the very least, allow us 0-1 choices from the Chaos Daemons book.

Cross-codex stuff is out of the game completely. If they let us mark daemons then that would make up for quite a bit.

Be nice to have some better Daemons, some good wargear for our HQ choices and some army wide bonuses for God specific lists.

new deamons also. I think the list is short for such a chaotic race

coolyo294 wrote:IMO, Honsou should be the Iron Warriors SC.

Is this a character from a novel? I have a very interesting fan codex someone wrote, with a special character and legion rules for every legion. Warsmith Honsou is the IW character. I think I found it on scribd, look for the chaos space marine codex by scott "zeruel13" addley. It's very well done and reads like a professional codex and not something thrown together by a powergamer for his favorite army

I would love to see Traitor Guard units (as they are in Imperial Armour: The Siege of Vracks), as well as new daemonic engines (such as Blight Drones and Blood Slaughterers), or even a new Land Raider type (in a experimental codex I saw one with autocannons instead of lascannons, which I find interesting).
I would also love to see marks avaliable dor vehicles, and some upgrade to possessed (at least, 2 wounds instead of 1). Also, new special characters from other legions (IW, Alpha Legion, and such) would be refreshing.

Brotherjulian wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:IMO, Honsou should be the Iron Warriors SC.

Is this a character from a novel? I have a very interesting fan codex someone wrote, with a special character and legion rules for every legion. Warsmith Honsou is the IW character. I think I found it on scribd, look for the chaos space marine codex by scott "zeruel13" addley. It's very well done and reads like a professional codex and not something thrown together by a powergamer for his favorite army

He is the nemisis of Uriel Ventris in the Ultramarine novels.


He is a Half-Breed Ironwarrior. an Ironwarrior created from Loyalist geneseed(specifically Imperial Fist)

*Coughcoughcough*

I think the vast majority of that codex is great.

I like to see a seperation into old Chaos Veterans and newer low quality Chaos Marines.

And I like to see cultists and lost and damned back and reincoperation of the deamons.

I dont think they should get ,,And They Shall Know no Fear" because they have no real higher goal left to fight and die for, in fact most are reduced to a pack of criminals and pirtates and want to stay alive,

maybe a Ld difference?


Renagades could have something like Ld7(8 with sergeant) to represent their lack of purpose. Original Legion members would have 8(9 with champion) because they are motivated and have purpose.

But how would you compare between a renegade or a true Legionare?. It makes no sense IMO but i do think they should AT LEAST make a special character for every Legion.


LETS BE ERUBUS!

KnightOfTheRaven wrote:But how would you compare between a renegade or a true Legionare?. It makes no sense IMO but i do think they should AT LEAST make a special character for every Legion.


LETS BE ERUBUS!

Erebus for Word Bearers IC? Probably the best choice Fluff wise, and with some decent rules could be a superb choice.

I want Terminator (and maybe even raptor!) options for berserkers, plague marines, thousand sons and the like. I want Workable Dreads. I want a cool Land Raider variant. I want some more daemon engines.

I want the point cost of Noise Marines, Possessed, Havoks and chaos bikers to be normalized with modern codices. And perhaps most of all, I want fun HQs that give army bonuses instead of just CC monsters, so it's just default Daemon Princes for all.

((Ahem. 'd also like Daemon Princes to be more customizable, like Tyranid monstrous creatures, so you could either make a cheap, bare-bones verions or a budget-busting Draigo-killer.))

In view of EC:

- Bikers w/ sonic blasters (2 pts upgrade per model),

- Havocs w/ blastmasters (4 per squad, blastmasters 10-20 pts).

wuestenfux wrote:In view of EC:

- Bikers w/ sonic blasters (2 pts upgrade per model),

- Havocs w/ blastmasters (4 per squad, blastmasters 10-20 pts).

That doesn't seem unreasonable, i'd say the points for the blast masters would be probably 20 though.

Commisar Von Humps wrote:GW Should Just buy JustDave's or hire him.

Have you read his codex? It's just a continuation of Thorpe's current dex with whatever he thinks CSM is.
You want a real dex? Take the 4e CSM codex, update it with 5e costs and rules.
BAM. Original and authentic fluff and good rules.

KnightOfTheRaven wrote:But how would you compare between a renegade or a true Legionare?. It makes no sense IMO but i do think they should AT LEAST make a special character for every Legion.


LETS BE ERUBUS!

Or just a Dark Apostle? I don't want to have to take Erebus every time a play my Word Bearers, it doesn't match their fluff and it just seems too much like a cop-out. JustDaves codex demonstrates how easy it is to make special rules without resulting to ICs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

terranarc wrote:

Commisar Von Humps wrote:GW Should Just buy JustDave's or hire him.

Have you read his codex? It's just a continuation of Thorpe's current dex with whatever he thinks CSM is.
You want a real dex? Take the 4e CSM codex, update it with 5e costs and rules.
BAM. Original and authentic fluff and good rules.

Have you? Did you miss the Warband Rules? The extra units? The 15 or so pages of feedback he's had and then incorporated into it? The Fandex is more than the current 4th codex will ever be. Every codex is what the author thinks the army is like. The Grey Knights have suffered for it, as have the Space Wolves, and the Dark Eldar has alienated some people. Put simply, JustDave's view is better than Thorpes.
I also don't get how simply updating the rules for a new edition results in originality.

iproxtaco wrote:
I also don't get how simply updating the rules for a new edition results in originality.

You don't know what originality means do you.

terranarc wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
I also don't get how simply updating the rules for a new edition results in originality.

You don't know what originality means do you.

Of some rules yes, but the rest is just a re-print, so not original at all.

iproxtaco wrote:

terranarc wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
I also don't get how simply updating the rules for a new edition results in originality.

You don't know what originality means do you.

Of some rules yes, but the rest is just a re-print, so not original at all.

See, I'm fine with that. Because the last thing I want is something like Mat Ward's rewriting of key fluff points and introducing more slowed stuff. The CSM world is already a rich world and doesn't need to be raped like GK. Now you may ask, well what do fluff have to do with rules? Answer: Everything. The rules don't have to be hyper-realistic but without something to justify it, you'll end up with a bad codex.
For Dave's codex, I had actually written half a page of issues but then I realized that the codex was so liberal that I really didn't feel like writing a paper critiquing his fanwork. Certian rules are blatantly against fluff, others are his own interpretation. Now, he's certainly no Matt Ward but that's not saying much. On the other hand if his codex was published (let us humor you for a moment), it'd be no worse than what Ward could do.

terranarc wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

terranarc wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
I also don't get how simply updating the rules for a new edition results in originality.

You don't know what originality means do you.

Of some rules yes, but the rest is just a re-print, so not original at all.

See, I'm fine with that. Because the last thing I want is something like Mat Ward's rewriting of key fluff points and introducing more slowed stuff. The CSM world is already a rich world and doesn't need to be raped like GK. Now you may ask, well what do fluff have to do with rules? Answer: Everything. The rules don't have to be hyper-realistic but without something to justify it, you'll end up with a bad codex.

I completely agree, but if there's going to be a brand new Legion codex, I'd want some brand new fluff. Mat Ward can write fine in some cases, its just that a lot of it deserves the red pen. The Space Marine codex is fine, its the context that's wrong, the concentration on the Ultramarines. I doubt that he'd be allowed to though. Keep him doing the loyalist codices, rain on their parade.

For Dave's codex, I had actually written half a page of issues but then I realized that the codex was so liberal that I really didn't feel like writing a paper critiquing his fanwork. Certian rules are blatantly against fluff, others are his own interpretation. Now, he's certainly no Matt Ward but that's not saying much. On the other hand if his codex was published (let us humor you for a moment), it'd be no worse than what Ward could do.

I really don't see anything to be perfectly honest, not now after all the tweaking. It's far more accurate to the fluff than Thorpe's abomination.

-More connecting the CSM to the forces of Chaos themselves. Emphasize that they're just one of a large front of Chaos forces (Daemons, Lost and the Damned, Dark Mechanicus, etc.). Less emphasis on renegade chaptors/pirates.

-Options for Lost and the Damned auxilliaries in there: Traitor Guard, Cultists, Mutants, Beastmen

-More specialization/rules for each of the 9 Legions (besides Black Legion which could stay a standard "template" CSM force). Dark Apostles for Word Bearers, Warsmiths for Iron Warriors, Infiltrator Marines for Alpha Legion, some kind of special Raptor for Night Lords. Even if GW doesn't want to give these guys official models, at least make rules/stats for them so players can themselves.

-TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE EYE OF TERROR. I'm tired of there being absolutely no info about this. Go into some of the wars fought between the Chaos powers in the Eye. Talk about some of the major worlds of the Eye of Terror. I want to know what Magnus/Peturabo/Mortarion/Lorgar/Omegon are up to. Even simply saying "they're in the Warp more connection to Daemon affairs than that of mortals" or "Omegons status is unknown" would be enough for me.

-Bring Malice back as at least a minor player in Chaos affairs. I understand GW can't use Malal anymore, but Malice has popped up in the past and Malice/the Sons of Malice should be mentioned in the fluff part of the codex somewhere.

Really I think GW should release some kind of special Codex for a lot of this instead of a new edition CSM. Something like "Codex: Forces of Chaos" would work. Goes in-depth into Daemons, CSM, Lost and the Damned, and the Traitor Titans (the latter at least fluff-wise). Of course we know this won't happen anytime soon, so it's just wishful thinking.

Everything you said harriticus I would agree with except bringing back Malice, as I see him as Unnecessary. Problem becomes trying to cram it all into one codex. Chaos forces are simply to vast to be compacted into a single book, so multiple codex is probably the route to go. As long as they DO cover everything.

Sunoccard wrote:Everything you said harriticus I would agree with except bringing back Malice, as I see him as Unnecessary. Problem becomes trying to cram it all into one codex. Chaos forces are simply to vast to be compacted into a single book, so multiple codex is probably the route to go. As long as they DO cover everything.

I agree that it's too much to put into 1 codex, which is why GW should release another "Realm of Chaos" book, but completely revamped for the current fluff. Even include some army lists for CSM/Daemons/LATD/Dark Mechanicus in there.

thats why there should be 2 codices.

Codex: Chaos Legions and Codex: Traitors and Renagades


Chaos Legions would be the original Traitor Legions and would have more daemonic support like Defilers, Posessed Vehicles, Daemonic Gifts, and Obliterators. there would be the 4 cult troops and a generic Chaos Space Marine unit. they could also have Cultists, which would basically be a cheap cannon fodder unit.

Codex Traitors and Renagades would have Renagade Space Marines, which would basically be Chaos Space Marines but with lower leadership and no good special rules, but they would be cheaper. these guys would basically be Space Marines that have recently turned traitor/gone out for themselves and haven't become true Hardcore traitors. they are unsure of their course(lower Ld) and are without purpose not having the blessing of any particular Chaos God yet. the book would also have Traitor Guard units with less equipment options, like only regular LRBTs and Demolishers not any other varient, but cheaper.

I too would like to humbly suggest my Chaos Space Marine (fan) Codex, it's got most of what's been asked for:

Legion Rules

Non-Astartes/Chaos Space Marine Units (i.e. Heretics/Cultists)

Land Raider Variants

Dreadnought Marks/Variants

Defiler Marks/Variants

Predator Variants/Customisation

Dark Mechanicus Representation

A Chaos Space Marine Flyer

Daemon (Lesser & Greater) Marks/Variants/God-specific

Sacred Numbers

FoC Multipliers

Customisable Elite Terminators

5th Edition-updated units and points costs throughout

More Psychic Powers

Psychic Defence

Gifts of Chaos

Reflection of the influence of the Chaos Gods

Cypher!

Greater Customisation

And More!

Seriously, please check it out. It's got some really good feedback and people are already using it in their games, with their friends approval too! It's all fitted into a single Codex, no larger than the existing Codices and not over-loaded with options or complication. It doesn't force you to play Chaos in a certain way, but it gives you the option to make your army as characterful as you want.
I really believe it bridges the gap between the 3.5 Codex (too complicated and restrictive at the same time IMHO) and the 4th edition Codex (too simplified) and within a single Codex with a Unit selection equal to the Space Marines Codex, so it's not unreasonably large either.

You want a Alpha Legion army with lots of infiltration and GeQ's?
You want a Night Lords army with lots of Raptors and terror-tactics?
Iron Warriors with ordnance weapons, lots of heavy weapons and meltaguns? Emperors Children with Sonic Blasters on their Havocs? Thousand Sons with lots of sorcerers and actually able to take out armour? A Renegade army that hits hard and fast, as Space Marines are supposed to? Abaddon supported by an elite cadre of terminators? It can accommodate for all of these things and more.

I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet, I'm trying to increase awareness and answer the OP at the same time; it answers the OP as these are all the things I would like to see included in the next Codex too.

Btw, Thanks for the kind words Silver, 'Humps and 'Taco.

terranarc wrote:

Commisar Von Humps wrote:GW Should Just buy JustDave's or hire him.

Have you read his codex? It's just a continuation of Thorpe's current dex with whatever he thinks CSM is.
You want a real dex? Take the 4e CSM codex, update it with 5e costs and rules.
BAM. Original and authentic fluff and good rules.

I'm not going to leap upon anyone that criticises my work, as with anything, obviously some people won't agree with it. However, I will respond to these comments by terran' as they strike me as somewhat odd...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but taking the 4E Codex and updating it for 5th edition is exactly " just a continuation of Thorpe's current dex".

terranarc wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

terranarc wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
I also don't get how simply updating the rules for a new edition results in originality.

You don't know what originality means do you.

Of some rules yes, but the rest is just a re-print, so not original at all.

See, I'm fine with that. Because the last thing I want is something like Mat Ward's rewriting of key fluff points and introducing more slowed stuff. The CSM world is already a rich world and doesn't need to be raped like GK. Now you may ask, well what do fluff have to do with rules? Answer: Everything. The rules don't have to be hyper-realistic but without something to justify it, you'll end up with a bad codex.
For Dave's codex, I had actually written half a page of issues but then I realized that the codex was so liberal that I really didn't feel like writing a paper critiquing his fanwork. Certian rules are blatantly against fluff, others are his own interpretation. Now, he's certainly no Matt Ward but that's not saying much. On the other hand if his codex was published (let us humor you for a moment), it'd be no worse than what Ward could do.

The bolded part is what stood out for me about your comments - other than the contradiction above - as one of the main things I've sought to do throughout the Codex is to keep it accurate to fluff and this has been something that's received a lot of positive feedback. I honestly cannot think of any rule there that is "blatantly against fluff". If you could provide examples, that'd be dandy as I honestly cannot think of any myself.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, providing it's politely written and constructive, all feedback is welcome and I have stood by that.
You are also the first person to (openly at least) compare it to Mat Ward, at least in a negative manner AFAIK.

I'll also clarify that some of the 'liberal' nature you described may be an illusion of sorts; it's actually changed relatively little since it's original incarnation.

*This may be better taken to the Codex's thread itself.

Only bad thing about justdaves codex is a lack of plague zombies, fluff and artwork.