Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I would love if they brought back the 3rd edition options but moderate them better threw a Need Mark of: * system since you can only get 1 mark your subjected to a pool of certain abilities / options only. Everyone has a general idea of what should be assessable by each god by mutation by now. I think they need 1 specific exotic cult option for each god. Like an FA choice for Slaanesh that is some kind of FA CSM for Slaanesh I don't know I don't want to think right now. I think it would be good to bring back the old sacred number and god specific demon summons if you choice to vice yourself to a cult. I believe they also need some fruity aspects involved as well Henchmen(Like Inquisitorial Henchmen and civilians just corrupted.) like qualities would be good to make cult theme armies or just playing chaos in general more interesting.

I think the one flaw right now with CSM is the fact that its greatest asset in fluff is its worse weakness on the table? All the undivided stuff is cool in most respect and it always seems like they want that to be the big deal. Though, no one ever wants to run the big deal in my mind. So its a hard fix. Though I think if anything undivided strength should be cheaper units and mult ability to summon whateverthehell they feel like wheneverthehell they feel like it. I think undivided should have some of its own 'specific' units / models to itself. Maybe a new crazy greater daemon that only works for undivided and has no chaos god associations. They also need to revamp every special character... They need more special character's. They also need chaos to have some fluff wins or a major kill by a daemon prince *Cough*Draigo*Cough*

Alot needs to be done for chaos ALOT not just a little, I always felt that yes chaos was suppose to be the major evil in the universe but they just don't seem up to snuff(Literally & pun) lately. So I just hope they come back into line and they actually make the future grim and dark and everyone treats them the way they treat DoA right now which is. Horror & Fear... That's what Chaos should do and stand for that.

-Sincerely Viri

P.S. I mostly blame chaos problem right now on the fact that demon model's are flexible between 40k and Fantasy dexes. Why else would they remove demons from CSM into there own army. Though both dex need a lot of work...

Hey guys, how's it going. Why does everyone want legion rules and cult terminators? That's not the way to go for chaos. I mean, c'mon get real! I got an idea instead of that they should retcon the fluff to explain how all the legion terminators got killed in the Siege of Terra and now all chaos terminators are renegades warbands. That would be extra sweet. And Roboute Guilliman is their spiritual liege. Matt Ward should do it. Bye.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Hey guys, how's it going. Why does everyone want legion rules and cult terminators?

Because they are a major part of the fluff, are fun to play, and are actually interesting as opposed to random "warbands"

SilverMK2 wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Hey guys, how's it going. Why does everyone want legion rules and cult terminators?

Because they are a major part of the fluff, are fun to play, and are actually interesting as opposed to random "warbands"

Silver, don't respond to those posts. He's obviously trolling this thread. You'll save some sanity.

Grey Templar wrote:thats why there should be 2 codices.

Codex: Chaos Legions and Codex: Traitors and Renagades

That's pretty much the current rumor for how Chaos will be handled. (And how I hope that handle it).

kronk wrote:Silver, don't respond to those posts. He's obviously trolling this thread. You'll save some sanity.

Yeah, I guessed as much when I went back and read what he had written

Here's the basics of what I'd like to see:

A high degree of customizability, this is CHAOS after all. More options/weapons/upgrades/mutations/warped equipment/etc.

Some way to differentiate the Traitor Legionnaires of the Horus Heresy from the run of the mill Marine (e.g. vet skills or something)

Differentiation between Cult Legion units and the "icon" units. Only the troops selection currently does this. A World Eaters berzerker is a dedicated warrior of Khorne who has undergone the psycho-lobotomization procedure. A unit of CSM's with a stick is just a unit of marines that venerate Khorne. This is not done currently in any slot but Troops.

Very powerful offensive psykers and psychic defense, especially tzeentch. These guys are going all out with daemon-granted powers and protection, they should be awesome psykers.

more Daemon engines

Some Legion specific rules, somewhat like they did with the 3.5 codex, 4E SM Traits or 3E IG Doctrines. Yeah there were issues with those but they were execution issues not problems with the concept.

Make a clear differentiation between Legions and Renegades. Legion troops will have Reaper autocannons, Havoc Launchers, TL Bolters, and combi-weapons. Recently turned renegades should still have their Thunderhammers, Assault Cannons and Razorbacks.

Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes should be flat out the scariest SM HQ's. A Chaos Lord is a Captain/Chapter Master equiavalent, but with daemonic gifts and enhancements and unreal wargear. A Daemon Prince is an ascended Chaos Lord and should be on the level of a Hive Tyrant/Mephiston. They should have a price to match their impressive abilities. Basically copy the paradigm from Warhammer Fantasy Warrior of Chaos where there's very little that will stand 1v1 with a Lord of Chaos. Additionally, bring back the 'lieutenant' option for a cheaper, less capable HQ, much like the SW Wolf Guard Battle Leader (or Chaos Lieutenant 2.0)

I agree, Chaos Lords in Fantesy are so utterly awsome and killy its not funny. Chaos Lords in 40k blow. Daemon Princes pretty much suck in both games(or at least the prelevance of Cannons make fantesy princes sitting ducks)

Chaos Lords also happen to have some of the coolest models GW has ever produced. The mounted Chaos lords especially...give CSM's something like that...oh man

If they gave me the option to really tweak an army to exactly how I want to play it, I'd die of happiness.
I want a lot more tanks for my Iron Warriors... I don't want to have to look at 4 Rhinos and Vindicators instead of the possibility of other, cooler tanks (If I could take a Basilisk or Leman Russ I'd be over the moon)
If they gave me better squad options i'd also be very happy.
Yeah, we have our Plague/Noise/Rubric Marines and Berzerkers and Normal Chaos Marines... But what if I want to take a blob of cultists or slaves to tarpit an enemy? Or if I want to take some sort of Chaos scouts?
We need some more diversity... The codex says that Chaos is an incredibly flexible army, so they should make it that.

Also... Overall, I just want a nicer/bigger codex. The equivalent of the current nilla marines codex.
Massive amount of background stories, information on each of the original legions of chaos, different FoC for different "legion" armies and so on.
Instead of the current piddly codex.


Most of this has probably been said. But I ceebs reading through to make sure.

~Danzag

Vaktathi wrote:Differentiation between Cult Legion units and the "icon" units. Only the troops selection currently does this. A World Eaters berzerker is a dedicated warrior of Khorne who has undergone the psycho-lobotomization procedure. A unit of CSM's with a stick is just a unit of marines that venerate Khorne. This is not done currently in any slot but Troops.

But then they gotta give all those units models. They already have enough work getting all the existing cult troops into plastic. Most likely they'll just come up with some new (stupid) fluff explaining why there aren't any cult terminators/havocs/bikers/etc. That's a lot less work too. Easy peasy.

Very powerful offensive psykers and psychic defense, especially tzeentch. These guys are going all out with daemon-granted powers and protection, they should be awesome psykers.

They cannot do this. If you gave chaos sorcerers stronger psychic powers than librarians the space marine players will get upset. Becuz Ultramarines is the bestest.

Make a clear differentiation between Legions and Renegades. Legion troops will have Reaper autocannons, Havoc Launchers, TL Bolters, and combi-weapons. Recently turned renegades should still have their Thunderhammers, Assault Cannons and Razorbacks.

But chaos = reaper autocannons. This makes perfect sense if you think about it. Becuz tehy iz warbanz.

Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes should be flat out the scariest SM HQ's. A Chaos Lord is a Captain/Chapter Master equiavalent, but with daemonic gifts and enhancements and unreal wargear. A Daemon Prince is an ascended Chaos Lord and should be on the level of a Hive Tyrant/Mephiston. They should have a price to match their impressive abilities.

Again, this is a nonstarter as it will enrage loyalist fanboys. No go.

Dear GW,

How come you made chaos lords stronger than my chapter master! No fair! +2 str power weapons are soooo cheesy! Fix it now!

Ok, so now they're only +1 str and they hit themselves in the face half the time? That's better. Now give me relic blades. Yay!

k thx bye

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Differentiation between Cult Legion units and the "icon" units. Only the troops selection currently does this. A World Eaters berzerker is a dedicated warrior of Khorne who has undergone the psycho-lobotomization procedure. A unit of CSM's with a stick is just a unit of marines that venerate Khorne. This is not done currently in any slot but Troops.

But then they gotta give all those units models.

They've had these units in the past and didn't have models, they still don't have dedicated models for many, and have always relied on conversion, much like IG vets, Chosen, etc. They also have FW models for many of these units.

They already have enough work getting all the existing cult troops into plastic. Most likely they'll just come up with some new (stupid) fluff explaining why there aren't any cult terminators/havocs/bikers/etc. That's a lot less work too. Easy peasy.

This didn't seem to be an issue in 2nd Edition or for the 5 years of 3.5E.

They cannot do this. If you gave chaos sorcerers stronger psychic powers than librarians the space marine players will get upset. Becuz Ultramarines is the bestest.

A silly reason for stupid game design. "Non-Loyalism SM armies can't have nice things" isn't something that always holds true, nor is it good game design, and nor do the loyalist fanbois always get butthurt at everything. Something like this would also not be hard to differentiate. Chaos=Offensive powers, direct damage type stuff while you make the Marines=Defensive/Support powers like they currently already are mostly.

Again, this is a nonstarter as it will enrage loyalist fanboys. No go.

Not really, as this was the case at several points for many years in the past, and again is a silly reason for stupid game design.

Dear GW,

How come you made chaos lords stronger than my chapter master! No fair! +2 str power weapons are soooo cheesy! Fix it now!

Ok, so now they're only +1 str and they hit themselves in the face half the time? That's better. Now give me relic blades. Yay!

k thx bye

Keep in mind that the guys who wrote the CSM had a different design style and view than the ones who wrote the SM book, and neither of the guys who wrote the current C:CSM were employed at the GW design studio by the time C:SM came out.

Vaktathi wrote:

They cannot do this. If you gave chaos sorcerers stronger psychic powers than librarians the space marine players will get upset. Becuz Ultramarines is the bestest.

A silly reason for stupid game design. "Non-Loyalism SM armies can't have nice things" isn't something that always holds true, nor is it good game design, and nor do the loyalist fanbois always get butthurt at everything. Something like this would also not be hard to differentiate. Chaos=Offensive powers, direct damage type stuff while you make the Marines=Defensive/Support powers like they currently already are mostly.

Again, this is a nonstarter as it will enrage loyalist fanboys. No go.

Not really, as this was the case at several points for many years in the past, and again is a silly reason for stupid game design.

The primary reason for chaos (or xenos for that matter) to exist is to give something for the space marines to whomp upon. It just doesn't do to have the villians make the heroes look bad. We should expect chaos to be good, but not as good as space marines. This pleases the greatest number of customers and helps move the primary product.

I think that firstly the idea of hq's they are just not enough i mean think of how many unique characters in the SM army is there with eternal warrior and yet abaddon is the only unique character :-/. Secondly i believe that plague marines should also have a 2+ save, aswell as toughness 5 and feel no pain. But we should change fearless to stubborn. Khorne berserkers should be strength 5. IOK should allow not only an extra attack but an extra strength. IOT should allow the aspiring champ of a normal squad to use 1 psychic power or 5+invulnerable mmm picky :-). Land raiders need more choice because what do we get 1 type where as the imperium have 5 or 6 :-s.

darkhorse19 wrote: Secondly i believe that plague marines should also have a 2+ save, aswell as toughness 5 and feel no pain. .

And should cost 30-35 points if they get that stat line...

I agree that there should be more Eternal Warrior in the next Chaos Codecies, as well as variant Land Raiders and Drop Pods.

You'll likely see a flyer or skimmer transport of some kind, too.

why on earth would Plague Marines have a 2+ save?

they arn't terminators.

Plague Marines have FnP and T5 for their durability, which is actually better then a Terminator with FnP. Plague Marines are insanely good right now(its the rest of the codex thats )

Kronk: we dont need drop pods because chaos get dread claws which are better than normal ones because it can keep going up and down each turn.
Grey templar: think of plague marines as having a mutated back that has turned into some sort of freakish hide similar to there guts hangin out.

Well, the Dread Claw is only available in an IA book, right? Something that lets the power armored guys deep strike should be in the codex.

I'm not a fan of the Dreadclaw, actually. Drop pods would get the job done without the fussy Dread Claw rules. Just my opinion, of course.

darkhorse19 wrote:
Grey templar: think of plague marines as having a mutated back that has turned into some sort of freakish hide similar to there guts hangin out.

and you think that warrents a 2+ save?

3+ with 4+ FnP is just right for them.


you want 2+ with FnP, wait for Deathguard Terminators(and they will run you 55 pts a pop too)

If you look at most Chaos list they are mostly the same Lashes or warp time, Chosen or termicide, Berzekers or PM, Defilers or Oblits. It is not very Chaotic!

Look at the list people ask to Crit they are all the same, and then someone gets the incredible idea that no body has thought of before.

"I can run a 9 monster army. I am so cool"

The codex lacks balls, and variety.

Darkhorse I'm not going to go back to the quote but how is Abaddon the only unique HQ? I seem to remember Huron Blackheart, Kharn, Fabius Bile, Ahriman, typhus, or Lucius? Or were those removed?

They're still there.

AustonT wrote:Darkhorse I'm not going to go back to the quote but how is Abaddon the only unique HQ? I seem to remember Huron Blackheart, Kharn, Fabius Bile, Ahriman, typhus, or Lucius? Or were those removed?

He's complaining, if you can decipher his cryptic posting style, that only Abbadon has Eternal Warrior.

Edit: Weird. I can't find his post, now. Did a few threads get merged together?

No its been changed but doesn't say edited...wierd. As far as Eternal Warrior, who cares? In the BA Codex the most deserving character for EW was Dante and it went to the absolute fail of his replacement sculpt. Doesnt Crassius or wahterver the UM Chap have EW. Most EW models are the super suck IMO, you cant bring the pain AND have EW seems to be the rule.

All Chaos Sorcerors should have stronger powers and the ability to upgrade to two or three powers a turn. They turned to Chaos for the promise of power, not to be outclassed by people that claim they don't even use psykers.

There should be some sort of rule that gives even Troops an edge over loyalists. They've been fighting against them for ten thousand years, and the run away, turn around, shoot thing still surprises them?

TRAITOR GAURD!!!!

I cant stress that enough it should have gaurd as cheaper troops (and get squadrens of tanks as well hehehehehehehehe),
and I want summoned and greater daemons to be A L:OT goddammed better...

Also daemon hammers (the equivilent to thunder hammers, because there just plain AWSOME!!!!)

No daemon hammers for Chaos. the GKs took the name already, for a Hammer that kills daemons.

Grey Templar wrote:No daemon hammers for Chaos. the GKs took the name already, for a Hammer that kills daemons.

Then how bout we go the way of Space Marine, in place of thunder hammers, raptors get Daemon Mauls, big spiked wrecking ball on the end of a huge stick that holds the power of an angry daemon.

Daemon weapons are meant to be incredibly rare though.

There should be traitor troopers, heretical technology, a few new psychic powers (like one that summons daemons without an icon).

And a Codex: Alpha Legion.

Personally, I would like the Renegade codex to be themed around mutants, cultists, traitor guard and who knows what else just as much as the Renegade Astartes chapters. IMHO, It would fit the renegade fluff much better, as these warbands can't just be comprised of a weakened Astartes chapter in order to survive. It would also fit the fluff for my own host better, as my renegade host is severly weakened as a Chapter, but is comprised mostly of the mortal followers and degenerates listed above, and the current rules only let me play the Astartes element.

If my special HQ who is a direct servant of one of the dark gods doesn't have eternal warrior, but a stupid space wolf can, we have issues.

Also, were are my cultists at.