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Indeed, although considering the situation it seems like its the only course of action. unless you have something that can totally wreck face on a unit in a building.

I'll gladly take a minor victory if its my only real option.

I'm voting the double HPA for double reasons!

First, it's just really annoying. Having one really problematic monster roaming around is obnoxious, having two is worse.

Second, Hell Pit abominations are supposed to be these rare, exotic monstrosities that are so expensive and difficult to create. At least Dark Elves just BREED hydras. Not only is the dual HPA an annoying thing to face, it's not even particularly believable in-game. I might be bothered less if the entire army was themed around Clan Moulder, but that would just lower them to the level of dual Hydras (which is the same level as dual Steam Tanks in my book).

I voted for the double HPA's. I should point out that I am slightly biased as I play HE and am one of Teclis' biggest defenders. The reason I voted double HPA's is because they are undercosted (yes Teclis is undercosted too) but they are also very difficult to deal with with some armies (again, can be said for Teclis, although if you get to him, he is as good as dead).

Teclis can be cheesy, and in 2k games Teclis can be a real pain the butt. As the points values get larger, the HE army tends to balance itself out, and in most cases Teclis can be dealt with much more ease. If its any consolation, if I had a 2nd vote, it would go to Teclis. It should be noted that for Teclis to be considered really powerful you have to add him with his bunker of PG, the Banner of Sorcery, and the Banner of the World Dragon. If its just Teclis on his own, I doubt you'd ever hear anyone complain about him as he would die first turn, every time. So I think that you should consider revising the poll to word it so that Teclis is included with the other things that make his "combo" "unforgiveable". Teclis alone is not "unforgiveable" in the same way that a unit of Chosen is not "unforgiveable" without their shrines to back them up.

The other things you listed are powerful, but they require so many points that its hard to classify them as cheesy. A chosen star is a pita, but it requires 2 shrines and a decent sized block of expensive troops. They might be hard as nails, but considering the points you are spending on them, and their shrines, they should be hard as nails.

Also, I do want to point out that this is merely for fun, as I don't consider anything on this list to be "unforgiveable". Now if it was a friendly game, and a guy pulled out 3 HPA's like what happened to Grey Templar... ya I might not play that opponent again. I don't think I'd get worked up over it though either. Some people have a different (not wrong, just different) idea of fun. Sometimes my idea and their idea is incompatible, but no reason to get angry over it.

If you are talking tourney play, then bring the best you got, no apologies.

I've yet to actually play against an HPA, so I can't be bothered to bitch about it.
But nothing makes me want to flip tables more than 2x6 Flamers. Those stupid fething pricks just sit there and shoot overpowered fire at you from smiling mouths.

I actually don't think HPAs are all that scary.

they are T5 and only have Regen to protect themselves IIRC. My old T6 Tyrant took on one all by his lonesome and minced it.

Multiples are simply annoying and the Banner of Eternal Flame ensures you will always have at least 1 unit capable of simply destroying them.

They are not that scary but when you have them running around all over the place backed by slaves and clan rats.

Boss I have heard that term apparently some guy did that at the local tourney here last year I missed it tho but there was apparently a lot of good sportsmanship.

Besides the point.

Chaos warriors with halberds and flaming banner do an alright job of dealing with them and then you have flickering fire and what not to stick it to em.

Not a fan of the grave guard they just chew through stuff too fast for my liking and hit too hard :(

Well, you can forgive VCs their graveguard. they have Skeleton envy.

cowpow16 wrote:3 HPA as been said before thats just gross.

Cant the screaming bell destroy buildings on a certain roll or does that not work?

The 120 DE are scary but 3 hpa's take the cake.

No not the screaming bell. But they have a Spell called ''Cracks Call'' 11+ spell that imitates a earthquake and will destroy buildings if in reach.

Ok sorry not too familiar with but ya they can bust up buildings some how is what I was trying to get at.
Thanks for the info tho

I thought there was a result on the bell's chart that did destroy buildings. I don't have my book on me though.

The bell can indeed destroy buildings.

Result 11-12 - Deafening peals brings all buildings within 18" down on a 5+

Being inside a building against a Skaven army is just a bad idea.

Yeah his right. It seems this was my mistake. (Sorry for wrong info) It's written right here and somehow ive missed it?

11-12 Deafening Peals. Roll a D6 for each building in within 18'' of the Bell - each collapse on a +5.

Pretty hardcore spell .

Anyway no one really told me about the doubelt HPA's. Are they really that cheesy and OP gamewise? Cus i was thinking on running two as i really love the model. (Seriusly it's a huge ass five headed mutated rat, what's not to love?)
But.. If it's so cheesy that people gives me the eyes. Then i would like to know more about it.

I wouldn't think twice about it.

You can always bring a second list, then ask your opponent before the game if they think it will be a problem, that way you have all your bases covered.

Friendly games should be just that, friendly. If that means your opponent might have an issue with 2 HPA's you can adapt and not play the 2 HPAs, or you can find a new opponent if they seem like they might be someone to avoid based on that initial communication.

Even if I thought something was super cheese, if my opponent asked me before the game if its ok if he ran it, I would have a hard time saying no. Communication, openness and honesty go a long way in a game like Warhammer.

Da Butcha wrote:Second, Hell Pit abominations are supposed to be these rare, exotic monstrosities that are so expensive and difficult to create. At least Dark Elves just BREED hydras. Not only is the dual HPA an annoying thing to face, it's not even particularly believable in-game. I might be bothered less if the entire army was themed around Clan Moulder ...

Warboss ZanZag wrote:Cus i was thinking on running two as i really love the model. (Seriusly it's a huge ass five headed mutated rat, what's not to love?)

Precisely the reason why, if I ever buy the GW model, it won't be used as a hellpit. It is an awesome and surprisingly well-priced kit, but it also means that 85% of all hellpits are nearly identical! I actually really loved when everybody was converting their own critters to represent this unit with amazing rules, like what happened when the defiler appeared in The Last & Greatest CSM Codex. Double big plastic hellpits in one army just drives the 'CLONE WARZ' thing home swifter.

Lehnsherr wrote:The reason I voted double HPA's is because they are undercosted (yes Teclis is undercosted too) but they are also very difficult to deal with with some armies

The reason I don't even play a hellpit any longer is because, against opponents without the means to stop it, it singlehandedly wins game after game. Which while somewhat intoxicating also leaves me with a hollow victory, and the other dude feeling traumatized

On the bell, it has at least one other result (Wall of Sound?) that blows up buildings within 24" on a 4+. For those who don't know, everybody in these wrecked buildings takes an Initiative test or dies, though I think they get ward saves (no armor though).

- Salvage

You could always give regular opponents a heads up that you will be bringing a HPA. You don't have to give em your list, but at least if you tell them, then they can prepare a bit.

I do understand where you are coming from though, and I feel much the same way about running Teclis against a lot of other players too.

That being said, its not exactly enjoyable to have a model that you can't ever use. I at least get to use Teclis as a counts as mage, that way I can still use his (imo) awesome model, while playing a more balanced Level 4 instead of Teclis. If you converted a sweet HPA model before the GW official model was released, and now its just collecting dust on a shelf, that would make me a sad gamer. I'd take a beating from it just so it could see the light of day.

The HPA model is awesome, but I agree with Boss. I loved to see mad conversions for it because it's exactly the sort of thing that, IMO, SHOULD be converted.

I play Teclis in tournaments or in practice games for tournaments. I always let my opponent know if I intend to play a practice game for a tournament and that I'm bring Teclis and an army that I would consider something akin to an 'Ard Boyz army. If they say yes, then we play. If not, then we don't. If I know it's going to be a friendly game, then I never bring Teclis. But we have tournaments here every other month, so a lot of my games are practice games for those tournies. No one in my local area begrudges me for it either. They like to play against my 'ard lists when I ask.

Yeah, there's a distinction to be made.

Your casual list which is at least a bit toned down, and your tournament list where you're free to pull no punches.

For example, I'm starting dwarfs. I wouldn't consider playing the Anvil in a casual game, but if I take them to a tournament, you better believe I'm bringing it.

I agree witht he converting of an HPA those things are crazy and even of you use the model set and add stuff and make it crazier.

But yes a distinction needs to be made for such things since if I am expecting a game just for the sake of playing and then someone pulls a tourney list then that is very bothersome since hey I dont have my hard core list I usually do call it a day and head out at that point.