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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 01:57:17
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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I dont even understand why all of you are talking to this guy.
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There are 2 kinds of Dakka members: People who just think the game and people who actually play the game. Which one are you? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 04:43:28
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway...back on topic.
Yeah Captains are great...Chaplains and librarians are just better. Plain and simple. It doesn't help that a Chaplain gets better wargear, with a similar statline for the same price. I think captains should be kept at the same price, but given a powerweapon (make it a power axe just to look BA) and a Combi-whateveryouwouldlike. That way, they have a wargear advantage, and a statline advantage. Giving you some reason to bring them. I always thought Captains should be the "cheap" choice, while the chaplains and librarians are the ones you pimp out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 04:50:35
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Even if you want a beatstick, you can do much better for your points.
A Captain w/ Relic Blade, SS, Artificer armor, and Digital Weapons is 170 points. Vulkan is 190, comes with a Heavy Flamer, his Relic Blade is Master Crafted, and he takes the best weapons in your army and Twin Links them. The choice is fairly obvious...
Even if you want to unlock bikes, Khan is probably a better choice.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/07 04:52:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 04:54:30
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Captains and Chapter Masters need to be boosted. give them a force multiplier ability, like GKs got with Grandstrategy.
as it is, Captains are only useful in Bike armys. mainly because they are required to have one and not because they actually do much for army once it exists.
If chapter masters had something like Grandstrategy or the ability to take Sternguard and Vanguard as troops they would be awsome. Captains should have something like Sicarus's ability to give a unit a special rule.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 04:56:06
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
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I also wish they added more force org changing options with the captain. Jump pack captain should make assault marines troops. I want to say terminator captain should make terminators troops, but that might be pushing it.
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DR:80S+++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k99+D+++++A++/mWD267R++T(T)DM+
2000 Points Athonian 39th
2000 Points Angels of Absolution
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 04:58:25
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Sure, lets make DA feel even worse about their codex
and an all Jump Pack army would just make you want to play Blood Angels cause they do it better.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 05:01:02
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
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Yeah I know, but I'm sure there are jump heavy armies out there that aren't BA successors. Would be nice is all
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DR:80S+++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k99+D+++++A++/mWD267R++T(T)DM+
2000 Points Athonian 39th
2000 Points Angels of Absolution
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 05:15:38
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Humorless Arbite
Outside the DarkTower, amongst the roses.
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I take one so i can take the command squad, i like the apothecary and champion. I know the points are semi steep but i like taking them.
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Every Dakkanaught gets a 4+ Pinch of Salt save.
When you suffer a Falling Sky hit, roll a D6 - on a 4+ the hit is ignored as per the Pinch of Salt save. On a 1-3 panic insues - you automatically fail common sense tests for the next 2 weeks and get +7 to your negativity stat. -Praxiss
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 06:17:40
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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SOFDC wrote:Aye, Captains are not "bad", for that matter neither are Chaplains...but the other options are just flat out Better in terms of utility, or for pure beatsticking point for point.
I could have a captain with bike, relic blade, and SS...Or I could spend 20-30 more points and get something like...oh...Vulkan. Or Lysander.
Same thing happens with Chaplains. Same cost as a librarian, nowhere near the support ability. Even in his niche, if you want a beatstick chappy, Cassius is cheaper than a terminator chaplain and beats more <CENSORED>
Apparently, there's an ultramarine librarian too, tigurius, he's supposed to be better
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captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 06:41:05
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Edit: Ignore this. Stupid computer brought me to the wrong thread.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/07 06:48:51
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 06:45:51
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Humorless Arbite
Outside the DarkTower, amongst the roses.
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Deadshot wrote:Orks will have to take a number, and wait untill I get more GK than Draigo and a Vindicare, then wait untill I start and finish both a Daemon and Eldar army.
huh?
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Every Dakkanaught gets a 4+ Pinch of Salt save.
When you suffer a Falling Sky hit, roll a D6 - on a 4+ the hit is ignored as per the Pinch of Salt save. On a 1-3 panic insues - you automatically fail common sense tests for the next 2 weeks and get +7 to your negativity stat. -Praxiss
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 06:59:47
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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Deathshead420 wrote:Deadshot wrote:Orks will have to take a number, and wait untill I get more GK than Draigo and a Vindicare, then wait untill I start and finish both a Daemon and Eldar army.
huh?
I have no clue what he means.
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captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 07:08:52
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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remilia_scarlet wrote:Deathshead420 wrote:Deadshot wrote:Orks will have to take a number, and wait untill I get more GK than Draigo and a Vindicare, then wait untill I start and finish both a Daemon and Eldar army.
huh?
I have no clue what he means.
Think he got lost and was attempting to respond to this
General_Chaos wrote:Deadshot you need to start an Ork army you'd fit right in with your "beliefs" LOL Automatically Appended Next Post: Deadshot wrote:Edit: Ignore this. Stupid computer brought me to the wrong thread.
Than got confused and edited it to this
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/07 07:09:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 07:10:57
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
In your squads, doing the chainsword tango
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damn you beat me to it
Shine on, deadshot, you crazy trooper. Shine on
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 07:34:46
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Cheers. Appreciate it. There are scientist trying to prove that thoughts have mass, and can influence the world, such as.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 07:54:20
Subject: Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
In your squads, doing the chainsword tango
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Deadshot wrote:Cheers. Appreciate it. There are scientist trying to prove that thoughts have mass, and can influence the world, such as.
Trying being the key word here mate. There are scientists trying to prove homeopathy works too.
Maths, on the other hand...
Deadshot wrote:Edit: Ignore this. Stupid computer brought me to the wrong thread.
Maybe it the influence was everyones thoughts of "this guy  " that brought you to the "wrong thread", not the stupid computer
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 12:10:14
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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NuggzTheNinja wrote:A Captain w/ Relic Blade, SS, Artificer armor, and Digital Weapons is 170 points. Vulkan is 190, comes with a Heavy Flamer, his Relic Blade is Master Crafted, and he takes the best weapons in your army and Twin Links them. The choice is fairly obvious...
Even if you want to unlock bikes, Khan is probably a better choice.
- If you go with Vulcan, you lose combat tactics. Meltas and flamers are not the 'best' weapons in the C: SM army. While Vulcan armies are still good, that expression "choice is fairly obvious" is not quite accurate.
- Kahn really works best if bike armies are at 2500+ points. I've played a bike army for 2 years now, and a standard captain with relic blade works better than Kahn at the lower point values. When you have to many bikes to fit on the table at once, Kahn pulls ahead as the ability to outflank termies in land raiders grows very powerful.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 14:31:59
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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labmouse42 wrote:NuggzTheNinja wrote:A Captain w/ Relic Blade, SS, Artificer armor, and Digital Weapons is 170 points. Vulkan is 190, comes with a Heavy Flamer, his Relic Blade is Master Crafted, and he takes the best weapons in your army and Twin Links them. The choice is fairly obvious... Even if you want to unlock bikes, Khan is probably a better choice.
- If you go with Vulcan, you lose combat tactics. Meltas and flamers are not the 'best' weapons in the C: SM army. While Vulcan armies are still good, that expression "choice is fairly obvious" is not quite accurate. - Kahn really works best if bike armies are at 2500+ points. I've played a bike army for 2 years now, and a standard captain with relic blade works better than Kahn at the lower point values. When you have to many bikes to fit on the table at once, Kahn pulls ahead as the ability to outflank termies in land raiders grows very powerful. I agree. Aside from his outflanking ability, Khan is just an overpriced bike captain.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/07 14:32:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 15:29:55
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Bounding Assault Marine
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PraetorDave wrote:labmouse42 wrote:NuggzTheNinja wrote:A Captain w/ Relic Blade, SS, Artificer armor, and Digital Weapons is 170 points. Vulkan is 190, comes with a Heavy Flamer, his Relic Blade is Master Crafted, and he takes the best weapons in your army and Twin Links them. The choice is fairly obvious... Even if you want to unlock bikes, Khan is probably a better choice.
- If you go with Vulcan, you lose combat tactics. Meltas and flamers are not the 'best' weapons in the C: SM army. While Vulcan armies are still good, that expression "choice is fairly obvious" is not quite accurate. - Kahn really works best if bike armies are at 2500+ points. I've played a bike army for 2 years now, and a standard captain with relic blade works better than Kahn at the lower point values. When you have to many bikes to fit on the table at once, Kahn pulls ahead as the ability to outflank termies in land raiders grows very powerful. I agree. Aside from his outflanking ability, Khan is just an overpriced bike captain. Here's my thing with Khan, in a bike list using a Command squad deathstar (decked out with SS and special weapons) he is really good. The FC and HnR that he gives are just insane. However I wouldn't take him just for outflank as bikes generally have a great deal of mobility to get where they need to be anyway (of course not saying outflank is bad). The place where Khan doesn't shine is in the bike list that has no CC rock to work with. In that case a Standard relic blade captain ends up being a better choice tactically than khan (also he costs less).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/07 17:13:14
Warhammer, one of a few games where Yahtzee is possible and not always a good thing
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
Armys:
-Fast'N'Slow Bikers- (5 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 16:49:20
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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ToI wrote:Here's my thing with Khan, in a bike list using a Command squad deathstart (decked out with SS and special weapons) he is really good.
The problem is the price of that squad. Given that they only have 1 wound a pop, and normal 3+ saves, that squad is easily overwhelmed by superior fire.
I've ran a bike army for 2 years, and have found that the best CC support is a LR with termies. For the bikes, more squads tends to work better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 17:13:00
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Bounding Assault Marine
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labmouse42 wrote:ToI wrote:Here's my thing with Khan, in a bike list using a Command squad deathstart (decked out with SS and special weapons) he is really good.
The problem is the price of that squad. Given that they only have 1 wound a pop, and normal 3+ saves, that squad is easily overwhelmed by superior fire.
I've ran a bike army for 2 years, and have found that the best CC support is a LR with termies. For the bikes, more squads tends to work better.
I tend to agree with you to a certain extent (the more squads part, not that Termies are better CC support) but think of it this way, I run a command squad that costs 360 points (yes it's a lot, but hear me out). This squad has 4 stormshields, 3 lightning claws, a thunderhammer, are T4(5) and have FnP. The hammernator unit is less expensive base, but I'm going to assume 6 so that we fill out a basic LR so we will be just over 100 points less. Now, the LR you have costs you more than the termies again in points so now you are talking about 500 points spent in one unit. Albeit a AV14 transport is included, but without other places to dump the anti AV14 that will be in higher points games, it's all going to go at that raider, and if those termies get stuck in the open they are toast. The bikes on the other hand, can redeploy across the board in a turn and are never "out in the open". Even with the captain the total only comes to about 560 for the bike deathstar and they have both anti horde and anti tank options with the TH and such. I really just feel like the terminators can turn into a footsloggin bullseye too quickly where the command squad is never a liability and is always doing something useful. Add in the fact that if you are taking khan that turns into a FC bike squad with hit and run. seems good...Not to say that your view is wrong I just happen to disagree with you, and I've been playing bikes for about as long
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Warhammer, one of a few games where Yahtzee is possible and not always a good thing
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
Armys:
-Fast'N'Slow Bikers- (5 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 17:52:42
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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ToI wrote:Not to say that your view is wrong I just happen to disagree with you, and I've been playing bikes for about as long
Agreed. There is more than one way to do it
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/07 17:54:41
Subject: Re:Why is the SM captain sub-par
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Bounding Assault Marine
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labmouse42 wrote:ToI wrote:Not to say that your view is wrong I just happen to disagree with you, and I've been playing bikes for about as long
Agreed. There is more than one way to do it 
 Oh cmon, this is the internet, you were supposed to rage at me when I disagreed with you and call me a
 good show old boy
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Warhammer, one of a few games where Yahtzee is possible and not always a good thing
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
Armys:
-Fast'N'Slow Bikers- (5 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses)
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