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Paladins can become nearly immune to torrenting through wound allocation and Feel No Pain. Other Terminator types retain better survivability against S8+ and AP2- through Storm Shields and not caring about ID.

Otherwise their operational ranges are largely the same. A psycannon is a better assault cannon. Incinerators are better heavy flamers. Force weapons and psychic powers add flexiblity, and you pay proportionally for it all.

I got the paladin numbers from this post someone said they run 15 paladins at 2000 and you can run 40 deathwing at 2000 although in reality it would probably be more like 35 plus upgrades.Still that's where they came from


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There has been alot of talk about deathwing and draigowing but what about loganwing? Is that not as good as either or is it just the red headed step child of terminators?

azgrim wrote:
There has been alot of talk about deathwing and draigowing but what about loganwing? Is that not as good as either or is it just the red headed step child of terminators?

Well, it isn't even the best thing to do with Logan out of the same codex. Wolfguard mostly in power armor is vastly better than wolfguard all in terminator armor.

Deathwing are still the top tier of all-Terminator armies IMO. Fearless gives them a huge boost over Wolf Wing and Deathwing Assault means that you can close the distance pretty quickly. Paladins' lack of 3++ makes them vulnerable to AP2 weapons, especially of the S8 variety.

Amaya wrote:Right now Draigowing is the best all terminator army you can build. It's also pretty cheap.

My friend's 2500 point Draigowing runs $500 US Retail.

Lord Draigo
GK Librarian (uses the BC Stern model)
Vindicare Assassin
15 Paladins
2 Stormravens
3 Dreadnaughts

Amaya, could you provide the load out on the dreads? I have been knocking around which TDA army I want to start up and this list sound brutal! Also, how would you scale this down to 2K? I know its not your list, but you sound pretty knowledgable about it.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Deathwing are still the top tier of all-Terminator armies IMO. Fearless gives them a huge boost over Wolf Wing and Deathwing Assault means that you can close the distance pretty quickly. Paladins' lack of 3++ makes them vulnerable to AP2 weapons, especially of the S8 variety.

When do marine break morale and if they do, they automatically rally regardless of unit strength via, they shall know no fear. Logan gives the unit he is with preferred enemy, tank hunter, plus a few other things, so it makes it pretty versatile, ad since wolf guard can be outfitted with anything, and you can break them off to lead other squads, I find them to be the most flexible. Of course I am heavily biased since I have been playing Space Wolves since 2nd edition.

Crom wrote:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Deathwing are still the top tier of all-Terminator armies IMO. Fearless gives them a huge boost over Wolf Wing and Deathwing Assault means that you can close the distance pretty quickly. Paladins' lack of 3++ makes them vulnerable to AP2 weapons, especially of the S8 variety.

When do marine break morale and if they do, they automatically rally regardless of unit strength via, they shall know no fear. Logan gives the unit he is with preferred enemy, tank hunter, plus a few other things, so it makes it pretty versatile, ad since wolf guard can be outfitted with anything, and you can break them off to lead other squads, I find them to be the most flexible. Of course I am heavily biased since I have been playing Space Wolves since 2nd edition.

If you Weaken Resolve them, they can become LD 2 and you can pin them. BA Librarians can FOD them. Non-fearless units are still subject to pinning, and if they're pinned they'll miss an entire turn of maneuver and shooting, etc.

Fearless is pretty important.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Crom wrote:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Deathwing are still the top tier of all-Terminator armies IMO. Fearless gives them a huge boost over Wolf Wing and Deathwing Assault means that you can close the distance pretty quickly. Paladins' lack of 3++ makes them vulnerable to AP2 weapons, especially of the S8 variety.

When do marine break morale and if they do, they automatically rally regardless of unit strength via, they shall know no fear. Logan gives the unit he is with preferred enemy, tank hunter, plus a few other things, so it makes it pretty versatile, ad since wolf guard can be outfitted with anything, and you can break them off to lead other squads, I find them to be the most flexible. Of course I am heavily biased since I have been playing Space Wolves since 2nd edition.

If you Weaken Resolve them, they can become LD 2 and you can pin them. BA Librarians can FOD them. Non-fearless units are still subject to pinning, and if they're pinned they'll miss an entire turn of maneuver and shooting, etc.

Fearless is pretty important.

I don't have my codex in front of me but I am pretty sure fearless is an option Logan can give. Almost every game I play my wolf guard are never the prime targets. It is always the wolf priest and the long fangs. Also, building a fearless strategy against one particular thing that the BA can do seems a bit over the top to me. Also, maybe this is just me but I hardly ever go against an opponent that has tons of pinning weapons. Also, since marines always automatically rally next turn they should be fine.

I think I'd rather have the offensive bonuses and the ability to apply fearless when need be. Maybe this is just me though.

Falco wrote:

Amaya wrote:Right now Draigowing is the best all terminator army you can build. It's also pretty cheap.

My friend's 2500 point Draigowing runs $500 US Retail.

Lord Draigo
GK Librarian (uses the BC Stern model)
Vindicare Assassin
15 Paladins
2 Stormravens
3 Dreadnaughts

Amaya, could you provide the load out on the dreads? I have been knocking around which TDA army I want to start up and this list sound brutal! Also, how would you scale this down to 2K? I know its not your list, but you sound pretty knowledgable about it.

It IS my list, he just added Stormravens to it. Dreadnoughts all have dual Twink Linked Autocannons and Psybolt ammunition. 135 points each for 4 twink linked bs4 s8 ap4 48" is a damn good deal.

Edit: The 2K list just doesn't have Stormravens, but Stormravens provide good mobility and a when moving flat out + shrouding = 3+ cover. If you wanted to keep the Stormravens I'd probably drop 5 paladins and 1 of the Dreadnoughts.

why would you need two stormravens with only one paladin squad?

azgrim wrote:why would you need two stormravens with only one paladin squad?

You can combat squad the unit of 10 into two units of 5.

Amaya wrote:

Falco wrote:

Amaya wrote:Right now Draigowing is the best all terminator army you can build. It's also pretty cheap.

My friend's 2500 point Draigowing runs $500 US Retail.

Lord Draigo
GK Librarian (uses the BC Stern model)
Vindicare Assassin
15 Paladins
2 Stormravens
3 Dreadnaughts

Amaya, could you provide the load out on the dreads? I have been knocking around which TDA army I want to start up and this list sound brutal! Also, how would you scale this down to 2K? I know its not your list, but you sound pretty knowledgable about it.

It IS my list, he just added Stormravens to it. Dreadnoughts all have dual Twink Linked Autocannons and Psybolt ammunition. 135 points each for 4 twink linked bs4 s8 ap4 48" is a damn good deal.

Edit: The 2K list just doesn't have Stormravens, but Stormravens provide good mobility and a when moving flat out + shrouding = 3+ cover. If you wanted to keep the Stormravens I'd probably drop 5 paladins and 1 of the Dreadnoughts.

Cool, Thanks Amaya.

Just remember that they are terminators, not scouts. I hate it when Terminator armies hide like Eldar facing heavy bolters.

It all depends on what style of play you want to have and the size of your game. If you are looking for small and elite then GK or SW could be better. If you are trying to take strictly termies then the loganwing will fall short because you can only have 6 squads of them, the FAQ states that if you take Logan wolf guard count as troops and no longer elites, but you can have up to 10 in a squad. In the dark angels book, Belial allows you to field termies as BOTH troops and elites, but they are limited to only 5 guys per squad and cannot add more. The dark angels FAQ fixes the problems in their weapons so in an all terminator army they have the same amount of fire power as a loganwing army, long fangs not included if all termies. SW termies can also have S 5 power weapons. The Logan wing army can also have 4 landraiders in it, dark angels can only have 3 and I think it is the same for GK. GK termies are probably better at CC, but against heavy armour, it 13 &14, they could run into a problem, DA and SW have access to cyclone missile launchers and chain fists. Both GK and SW termies have “they shall know no fear” which is awesome, but if they break and the enemy does not catch them the still can not rally if there is an enemy within 6 inches. However the Deathwing termies are fearless which is a give or take kinda thing.
It also depends on how many points you want to put into an HQ. Both Draigo and Logan Grimnar are 275 points (correct me if I am wrong). Belial for DA is only 130, so you can get him and a librarian or a dread for the price of the other two. That being said, GK do not have to take a special character to play all termies, DA and SW do, but the SW get 2 HQ choices per slot which can be advantages.
As for landraiders, they are all the same in all 3 armies. The dreads in all 3 are relatively the same, both DA and GK can take good riflemen dreads, GK alittle better due to the psybolts, but SW can take the A++ super bad a@#%s Bjorn the fell handed.
That about the gist of it.

Mr. S Baldrick wrote: It all depends on what style of play you want to have and the size of your game. If you are looking for small and elite then GK or SW could be better. If you are trying to take strictly termies then the loganwing will fall short because you can only have 6 squads of them, the FAQ states that if you take Logan wolf guard count as troops and no longer elites, but you can have up to 10 in a squad. In the dark angels book, Belial allows you to field termies as BOTH troops and elites, but they are limited to only 5 guys per squad and cannot add more. The dark angels FAQ fixes the problems in their weapons so in an all terminator army they have the same amount of fire power as a loganwing army, long fangs not included if all termies. SW termies can also have S 5 power weapons. The Logan wing army can also have 4 landraiders in it, dark angels can only have 3 and I think it is the same for GK. GK termies are probably better at CC, but against heavy armour, it 13 &14, they could run into a problem, DA and SW have access to cyclone missile launchers and chain fists. Both GK and SW termies have “they shall know no fear” which is awesome, but if they break and the enemy does not catch them the still can not rally if there is an enemy within 6 inches. However the Deathwing termies are fearless which is a give or take kinda thing.
It also depends on how many points you want to put into an HQ. Both Draigo and Logan Grimnar are 275 points (correct me if I am wrong). Belial for DA is only 130, so you can get him and a librarian or a dread for the price of the other two. That being said, GK do not have to take a special character to play all termies, DA and SW do, but the SW get 2 HQ choices per slot which can be advantages.
As for landraiders, they are all the same in all 3 armies. The dreads in all 3 are relatively the same, both DA and GK can take good riflemen dreads, GK alittle better due to the psybolts, but SW can take the A++ super bad a@#%s Bjorn the fell handed.
That about the gist of it.

You can have as many core units as you want, and in Logan Wing when they count as core instead of elite, they can hold objectives.

theman99808 wrote:Im building a deathwing army but modeled as death watch. Im so excited to finally field it! I would run death watch because of the options that they can put on their terminators, yes they are expensive but how do you beat a terminator with a th/sh and a typhoon missile launcher?

So you Are building a GK army...


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Crom wrote:

AustonT wrote:Dark Angels aren't necessarily the BEST TDA army. I think the Wolfwing holds that particular title. But it is the one with the longest history and the most longevity. A Dark Angels codex IS due in the none too distant future, and an all TDA army will ALWAYS be a part of that book. Although there is no reason they would, an update to the SW book could impose some sort of restriction to preclude the continued wolfwing. That's my take on it. In the competitive meta, it's a matter of old and wiley DA players using a substandard book to devastating effect.

Well that is mainly because of Logan's bonuses he gives units he joins. I still don't think it is the best tactic for Space Wolves.

When you're argument begins with "that's mainly because of" And then doesn't say anything about the a TDA wolfwing I discard your statement. It's "mainly because of" a TDA rune priest and Logan Plus an army of wolf guard

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

[Crom]You can have as many core units as you want, and in Logan Wing when they count as core instead of elite, they can hold objectives.

Crom wrote:

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

[Crom]You can have as many core units as you want, and in Logan Wing when they count as core instead of elite, they can hold objectives.

Yes can have as many core as you want in fantasy, but in 40k you have troops choices not core. Based on the force organization chart. In a standard game even SW can only have 6 troop choices, unless it is a special mission or an apocalypse.

Same here, that sounds handy!

Falco wrote:

Crom wrote:

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

[Crom]You can have as many core units as you want, and in Logan Wing when they count as core instead of elite, they can hold objectives.

Yes can have as many core as you want in fantasy, but in 40k you have troops choices not core. Based on the force organization chart. In a standard game even SW can only have 6 troop choices, unless it is a special mission or an apocalypse.

Hmm, I guess we never really played that rule. Admittedly I just got back into war gaming from a 15 year break about a year ago. So we had a long adjustment from 2nd edition 40k to 5th and 3rd edition fantasy to 8th. Though I have an app I use to build army lists and it imports all the rules for GW games, and when I do something wrong it flags it. I only own about 25 metal wolf guard termies anyway from 2nd edition, so not like I am fielding a whole army of them.

Extension to your license? So do you have to buy this and you can only use it for a set period of time?

nectarprime wrote:Extension to your license? So do you have to buy this and you can only use it for a set period of time?

Yes, since the app is constantly updated, it is only good for one year. However, the renewal fee is substantially less than the initial license. With in a week or less of any army book coming out they will have updated the app to add in all the new rules and features of your new army book. I play Ogres and I think with in 3 days of the Ogre book coming out they updated all the Ogre army lists to reflect the new book. They also update the FAQs as well on core rules that apply to units/troops in game.

Like I said, I tried out many free ones before buying this, and I ended just buying it. I think it is worth it and developers need to make some sort of money to keep their apps up to date and pay for hosting and hopefully make a little extra for their hard work. It also works with almost every war gaming system out there, not just GW.

#edit#

Actually I think you get free updates for a year and then you must renew the license, that is how it works. So you don't have to buy it every year or renew it, but you stop getting updates when you do. Updates are delivered directly over the net too.

Crom wrote:I play Ogres and I think with in 3 days of the Ogre book coming out they updated all the Ogre army lists to reflect the new book.

Not true. There is a month gap between new book and new file. And the Ogre file has not been updated yet.

I don't think all terminator armies are worth it. Last week I played vs a Logan Wing terminator army. The guy started with 26 terminators in drop pods, with Logan and a bunch of guys with Multi Meltas. Five turns later he had only 8 terminators left, one of those being Logan Grimnar, the other being a Rune Priest and the rest were just a squad of guys. I was playing Eldar. I just don't feel there is enough firepower in lists like that.

Fire power as in Anti-tank or Anti-infantry?

Roadkill Zombie wrote:I don't think all terminator armies are worth it. Last week I played vs a Logan Wing terminator army. The guy started with 26 terminators in drop pods, with Logan and a bunch of guys with Multi Meltas. Five turns later he had only 8 terminators left, one of those being Logan Grimnar, the other being a Rune Priest and the rest were just a squad of guys. I was playing Eldar. I just don't feel there is enough firepower in lists like that.

Hey, thanks for evaluating Terminator armies based solely on a single experience with them. That sure is helpful.


If Draigowing was so bad, there wouldn't be people going to 'ard Boyz semifinals running it.

theman99808 wrote:Im building a deathwing army but modeled as death watch. Im so excited to finally field it! I would run death watch because of the options that they can put on their terminators, yes they are expensive but how do you beat a terminator with a th/sh and a typhoon missile launcher?

AustonT wrote:So you Are building a GK army...

no, I dont like the way the Gray knights play on the table, im planning on playing death wing. for me this will be more of a painters army and a fun army. Ive got my IG for beating face

azgrim wrote:I got the paladin numbers from this post someone said they run 15 paladins at 2000 and you can run 40 deathwing at 2000 although in reality it would probably be more like 35 plus upgrades.Still that's where they came from


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There has been alot of talk about deathwing and draigowing but what about loganwing? Is that not as good as either or is it just the red headed step child of terminators?

I've been experimenting with all terminator Draigowing with 22 Terminators (including Draigo and Librarian) at 2k and 17 Terminators (including Draigo and Librarian, but with fewer upgrades) at 1.5k Paladins can really take a lot of fire and come out okay. I have had my main deathstar squad of 10 diversified paladins plus Draigo and a librarian survive three rounds of dedicated shooting from an entire IG army before the squad started to crumble. You need to use terrain and your psychic abilities to your advantage. Draigowing lists are probably more competitive if you throw in a couple dreads or storm ravens, but I've just been playing with terminators only.

Loganwing from an all terminator perspective looks like a fun list, but gets much better when adding long fang squads to the mix. That, of course, would not be an all terminator army though.

I have played Deathwing armies on and off for years, and they have found a new life since the latest DA FAQ was released. Deathwing have shown pretty well at 'Ard Boyz this year so far. At 2k I run 37 terminators, including Belial and a Librarian. Having an army full of 3++ is pretty sweet, giving your army a ton of survivability.

Nobody has mentioned Black Templars. Although you can't go terminators only with them, you can take a pretty good core of terminators. At 2k you can take 3 minimum sized crusader squads in laserbacks, along with 3 terminator squads with tank hunters and two assault cannons, a terminator castellan and terminator command squad with tank hunters and 2 assault cannons, and a terminator chaplain with terminator command squad, tank hunters, and 2 assault cannons. That's 27 terminators, plus 15 PA marines in 3 laserbacks. I've never played this type of army though, and have't thought too much about how it would play against other armies.