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Coolyo294 wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

Prawnkus wrote:IIRC, Iron Hands killed off 1/4 of a planet's population for showing weakness, so I think they would definitely count.

They also turned to Chaos, IIRC...

Yeah, no. Iron Warriors did, but the children of Ferrus Mannus are loyalists.

I was talking about the planet where they executed 1/4 of the population.

feth me, I can't understand people for gak today...

We all have those days man.

Chowderhead wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

Prawnkus wrote:IIRC, Iron Hands killed off 1/4 of a planet's population for showing weakness, so I think they would definitely count.

They also turned to Chaos, IIRC...

Yeah, no. Iron Warriors did, but the children of Ferrus Mannus are loyalists.

I was talking about the planet where they executed 1/4 of the population.

feth me, I can't understand people for gak today...

The English language is very hard and one of the most complicated in the world. have no worries.
Another Barbaric chapter, is the Black Templars.

Farseer Petriel wrote:Mortifactors - they eat flesh of their enemies and in belief of gaining their strength.

Actually, the Mortifactors are pretty okay guys when you aren't their enemy. They worked well enough with the Ultramarines.

Campbell1004 wrote:Where is this information about the World Eaters getting lobotomized?

Also, check out their Index Astartes if you can find it. It's not described as a lobotomy, but it is described as "psychosurgery" (The category of surgery lobotomies fall under).

AustonT wrote:

Uhlan wrote:The Mongol Horde was not a mass of crazy horsemen running down hapless civilians.

the city of Baghdad might argue differently what with the three pyramids of heads: men, women, and children.

The Mongols were terrorists. They operated on a "surrender or be an example" plan. Think of them like the Night Lords.

I think the idea of the Space Wolves being brutal unthinking comes from poor internal branding. "The Space Wolves are the most savage and barbaric of all the Space Marine Chapters, whose red-hot battle-lust is channelled through boltgun and frost axe." The last sentence is from the GW website, but the codex and all the licensed fluff paints them as one of the most amiable and honorable chapters in existence.

I think of them like I do my pit bulls. Quick to make friends, affectionate, steadfastly loyal to the cracks of doom, but ferocious fighters when roused.

Flesh Tearers. The only reason they've not been blammed for heresy is because of how much sway the Blood Angels hold.

Someone said 'Skull Takers' but they are Chaos, so I don't believe they count for this discussion.

Taking heads isn't necessarily 'brutal/savage/barbaric' by itself. The Silver Skulls take heads as trophies but nothing written about them suggests that they are overly barbaric or savage. Yes they recruit from some feral worlds, and that is where the trophy custom comes from, but that seems to be the extent of it.

This thread has piqued my interest in some of these other mentioned chapters though. I'm going to go read about the Minotaurs now.

Non-Canon wise. Do the angry marines count?

The Carcaradons and the Flesh tearers are most likly the most savage chapters out there

Molten Butter wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:Mortifactors - they eat flesh of their enemies and in belief of gaining their strength.

Actually, the Mortifactors are pretty okay guys when you aren't their enemy. They worked well enough with the Ultramarines.

Hmm. The Ultramarines despised them almost right from the start. They certainly didn't get on well, coming to blows at more than one point.

Campbell1004 wrote:Where is this information about the World Eaters getting lobotomized?

Also, check out their Index Astartes if you can find it. It's not described as a lobotomy, but it is described as "psychosurgery" (The category of surgery lobotomies fall under).

I keep seeing Flesh Tearers and I maintain they don't hold a candle to Flesh EATERS in terms of sheer blood soaked savagery.

Cerebrium wrote:Flesh Tearers. The only reason they've not been blammed for heresy is because of how much sway the Blood Angels hold.

The sway of the BA is irrelevent as the Knights of Blood have already been excommunicated for their blood lust and collateral damage caused.

iproxtaco wrote:

Molten Butter wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:Mortifactors - they eat flesh of their enemies and in belief of gaining their strength.

Actually, the Mortifactors are pretty okay guys when you aren't their enemy. They worked well enough with the Ultramarines.

Hmm. The Ultramarines despised them almost right from the start. They certainly didn't get on well, coming to blows at more than one point.

Thanks. It's been a while since I read that book.

I remember Uriel and co. getting irritated with their death ceremonies at the beginning, but that was all I could recall.

I'd put my money on the minotaurs. They're down right berserk. Cursed Founding "Engineered" to be.

Here's their battle strategy:

Show up unannounced, beat the enemy down in savage close range assaults with a 'Damn the Torpedoes!' attitude, not caring about their loses or anything else really. Then promptly leave once the 'fun' part of the battle is over, leaving the guard or some more cautious marines to clean it all up.

Heck, they enjoy bashing other marines most. They nearly destroyed the Inceptors Chapter at Euxcine (Complete over reaction). In the Badab Wars they nearly wiped the Lamenters (BA successors) out in a series of brutal boarding actions in space. Space battle? We should shoot? NO WAY, CHARGE! They even insulted Calgar on purpose, that's some balls.

Sweet, thanks for the responses guys.

I guess I wasnt really thinking when I was using the words 'barbaric', 'brutal', or even 'feral' and 'savage'. It occurred to me the word 'feral' could imply a Chapter gone renegade. But I was generally going off a generalised 'feel' of a Chapter. I mean, there's alot of knightly/monk-like Chapters. Was just wondering if there were any that were particularly primitive or tribal in appearance, feel, culture or battle doctrine.

As for the Space Wolves, yes I do feel they embody that 'noble savage' type, but the Horus Heresy books (particularly Thousand Sons) really gave me the impression of 'these guys are brutal, and are better not be messed around with, even by other Legions'. Same with the White Scars, although there isnt much known about them (compared to other Legions/Chapters), they still had that same sort of tribal culture, and a mystical spirituality not unlike the Wolves. But these are my opinions so each to their own.

After reading through this thread, Im still thinking Space Sharks (Carcharodons, whatever) and Flesh Tearers are definitely still up there. They're also probably my favourites.

I'm surprised no one has said the Grey Knights. I think what they do is justified, but some would call it brutal and barbaric.

Slightly off-topic, but I feel like the World Eaters are probably the most 'noble' space marines in terms of war. I'm a little tired now, but tomorrow I'll give a good explanation of what I mean.

Marines Mallificent- "An example of this is during an Ork attack on a refugee camp near Hades Hive. In excess of five thousand Orks penetrated the defences of the camp and took the entire population, over 12000 refugees and nearly 1000 member of the Adeptus Ministorum as hostages. The Marines Malevolent proceeded to use their Whirlwind anti-personal artillery pieces to bombard the Orks while they were still in the camp. On the proceeding attack to retake the camp, a huge amount of collateral damage had been done to the camp's population. Nearly four thousand refugees had been killed, but the Marines Malevolent seemed to believe them to be acceptable casualties. In a conversation with Colonel Destrier Celestine of the Armageddon Command Guard, the Marines Malevolent Captain Vinyar gave a speech that was tantamount to saying that those in the camp were not worthy of living and about his force's supremacy in war..."

I'm sure I'm going to get heckled to all heck for this, but...

If you're one of the Fallen, in between one and one of the Fallen, or the inhabitant of a world they leave to burn in order to get their hands on one of the Fallen, the Dark Angels and their successors probably seem pretty bloody brutal.

AchillesFTW wrote:Slightly off-topic, but I feel like the World Eaters are probably the most 'noble' space marines in terms of war. I'm a little tired now, but tomorrow I'll give a good explanation of what I mean.

OH NO YOU DON'T! You don't get to say that and walk off. You have much explaining to do.

Minotaurs, Flesh Tearers, White Scars, Knights of Blood, Iron Hands and Sons of Medusa to name a few.

Of the current chapters, I would say Flesh Tearers, The flesh eaters were worse, but were so bad that they died out because of their gene seed-flaw. (The Flesh Tearers are heading that way, but not yet wiped out.)

However, despite the insane blood lust of the Flesh Tearers on the battlefield they are not barbaric all the time. They would also enjoy the arts and beauty and refinement of the other Blood Angels when out of combat.

However, I have no doubt they you would find barbaric chapters in the children of all the original legions. These barbaric tendencies are a result of their recruiting world. Feral worlds are favored by space marines because they grow strong warriors. However, you cant just pick up a warrior from a planet where the most advanced piece of technology was a spear and they thought rain was the anger of the sky gods, throw them in power armor and ship them off to fight wars in space without some of that original superstitions and traditions sticking around.

IN terms of general brutality and barbarism both on and off the field of battle, I have nothing.

Molten Butter wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Molten Butter wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:Mortifactors - they eat flesh of their enemies and in belief of gaining their strength.

Actually, the Mortifactors are pretty okay guys when you aren't their enemy. They worked well enough with the Ultramarines.

Hmm. The Ultramarines despised them almost right from the start. They certainly didn't get on well, coming to blows at more than one point.

Thanks. It's been a while since I read that book.

I remember Uriel and co. getting irritated with their death ceremonies at the beginning, but that was all I could recall.

I think you were probably right though, they still worked well enough together during battle, but out of combat they despised each other.

Happygrunt wrote:

AchillesFTW wrote:Slightly off-topic, but I feel like the World Eaters are probably the most 'noble' space marines in terms of war. I'm a little tired now, but tomorrow I'll give a good explanation of what I mean.

OH NO YOU DON'T! You don't get to say that and walk off. You have much explaining to do.

Minotaurs, Flesh Tearers, White Scars, Knights of Blood, Iron Hands and Sons of Medusa to name a few.

I too would be interested in hearing where this is going

Flesh Tearers.

Adding to this, in the scope of my SoB-focused research I just stumbled over one of the original texts accompanying the Armageddon 3 campaign, and I have to admit, the Sons of Malice (back when they were still loyalists - I hear they've changed a bit since they were driven off their homeworld) do pale in comparison to the Flesh Tearers. Also forget about the Marines Malevolent, those guys are just dicks who don't give a rat's ass about normal humans. The Flesh Tearers are plain psycho!

+++ Date: 2588999/M41
+++ Ref: Arm/71103491/CTC
+++ By: Canoness Carmina, Order of the Argent Shroud, Fire Wastes
+++ To: General Kurov, Armageddon Command Guard, Infernus Hive
+++ Re: Deviancy within Adeptus Astartes Fleshtearers
+++ Thought: A woman's heart knows no Heresy.

General,

It is with mixed emotions that I can report that the forces of Warlord Rukglum are, at this time, in full retreat. The constant harrying of their rearguard by my Seraphim and Rhino-borne Battle Squads are denying the artillery warbands the ability to deploy their larger guns and I predict that without substantial reinforcements, Rukglum will continue to flee all the way back to Warlord Blagrot's Gargants where we will, reluctantly, be forced to break off pursuit.

I must, however, insist on an immediate Inquisitorial investigation of the Fleshtearers Space Marine Chapter. We were unfortunate to be assigned to fight alongside them in the strike upon Rukglum's artillery positions and their conduct opens the gravest of questions in their suitability within the defence of Armageddon. It is my personal feeling that they are not fit for duty anywhere within our mighty Imperium.

Chapter Master Seth denied me any tactical counsel whatsoever. After nearly a century in leading my Sisters to war, occasionally alongside Marine Chapters, this treatment came as no surprise. The fighting organisation and capabilities of any Sororitas Order is at least the equal to an Astartes Chapter and my Sisters are well versed in the covering of tactical errors by our alleged allies. This alone is of no concern to myself or the Order.

As you will have been made aware, we struck Warlord Rukglum's army as it moved position from shelling the mining outpost Gaius Point, to occupy the settlement. Battered by three days' bombardment, the population of Gaius Point had dug underground and, under the careful ministrations of my Sisters Superior, were determined to form an ad hoc militia to defend their homes. The Fleshtearers launched their attack on the Ork column when it was approximately one Imperial Mile from Gaius Point and, hitting the Orks in the rear and flanks, they drove the disorganised enemy into our waiting guns. Caught between Sister and Marine, many Orks were slaughtered, with the survivors mounting their vehicles to escape with all haste.

We first noticed something was very wrong when three mobs of Orks, deserted by their cowardly leaders, formed up and assaulted our front line, choosing to engage the Gaius Point militia rather than my Sisters' deadly accurate bolt guns. The Fleshtearers, apparently driven mad by some kind of battle frenzy, crashed into their rear ranks just as the first Orks reached the militia.

It is my fear that no one in the Command Guard will believe what I must report occurred next but, as the Emperor is my witness, these things happened.

The Fleshtearers fell upon the Orks in what I can only describe as an orgy of blood letting. Many Marines had removed their helmets and, eschewing the use of pistols and other ranged weapons, set about the Orks with chainsword and knife and tooth. I swear, I saw it with my own eyes, Marines were ripping out the throats of Orks with their bared teeth. The raw fury and love of carnage I saw in their faces as they literally tore the enemy apart still makes me shudder as I write this. The Orks were annihilated within seconds of the Marines' attack, but the small number of the enemy were simply not enough for the Fleshtearers who by now seemed to have been driven into a fever pitch of absolute blood lust.

With no more Orks for them to butcher, they scrambled over the barricades on the perimeter of Gaius Point and smashed into the thin line of militia. Properly driven into a true battle frenzy now, the Fleshtearers performed acts of the most debauched nature in the name of violence. Men, women and youths, all fell beneath their blades. The old, the infirm, none were spared the Fleshtearers' crazed attack. Sister Superior Shania later reported that she had witnessed cannibalistic acts by the Marines. I did not see this, but I believe it. I ordered my Sisters to withdraw from the Fleshtearers with all haste before they reached our positions.

The Orks have been defeated once more in the Fire Wastes and the Imperium can claim another victory. But there are no survivors of Gaius Point. None at all.

I must reiterate. It is clear that the Fleshtearers are unstable beyond redemption and an Inquisitorial investigation is the very least Chapter Master Seth and his Marines should be subject to. During my service to the Order, I have heard many strange rumours concerning the Successor Chapters of the Blood Angels, but it is evident that the Fleshtearers have devolved far beyond any point reached by a loyalist Chapter.

Either call in an Inquisitor or bring the Imperial Navy to bombard these animals from space, but my Order will not fight alongside the Fleshtearers again, I swear it. By the Immortal Emperor and everything I hold to be Holy, my Sisters will not risk themselves by allying with savages, regardless of your own wishes.

- Canoness Carmina

(the original pages from the campaign are still available at the waybackmachine internet archive - just call up a snapshot from the armageddon3.com website ... lots of cool fluff bits about a lot of armies/regiments/chapters/orders)

I would expect the Red Scorpions to be pretty vicious towards mutants and abhumans, considering their fanatical fascination with genetic purity.

The Space Sharks have done some knarly stuff.
Such as: Murdering hapless citizens in the Mantis Warrior's planet cluster to lure them into a head on fight. Overloading all the hives' reactors on Badab (prime?) to ensure the death of Huron even though the Star Phantoms were still there fighting. And ransacked the planet cluster given to them by the big =I= as well as making the entirety of the male population fight in a big death tournament and making the winners join the chapter.