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My GW store is gone

No food or drink is quite normal tbh, a lot of stores have this policy, its not fair to have to clean up when people leave bits of food and greasy fingerprints on things.

regarding topics of conversation, that i'm afraid is downright messed up, and no FW models? i dunno, if you've agree'd it before hand with your opponent i wouldn't see why not.

the only stools that should be there should be the ones for the painting area, anywhere else ideally you want standing, not only does this encourage proper circulation but it keeps games short as people don't like standing up for hours.
brutal truth tbh as for no watching of games? again seems odd.

how big is the store anyway? how many gaming tables are in there?

This totally depends on your store manger, my store manger is brill we can drink most the time , watch games talk about most things inless it is noot approte but it really depends on the kinder manger you got .

They are some crazy rules. I would honestly say that if a member of staff just came up and pulled a stool out from underneath me I would be breaking their jaw, not that I would set foot in a GW store since getting our own independant

Most of these rules seems just fine.

A GW store is not your (generic "your") free version of a local country club where you get to hang out, loaf about, eat/drink and shoot the s**t with your friends. It is a store with a very specific goal.

My local GW is awesome... none of the rules are even remotely in effect at my local GW...

The rules are over the top to be sure, but ultimately it's their store and they can set the rules however they want. I would suggest you vote with your wallet and stop buying models either from GW entirely or at least from that store.

As long as you quietly accede to these rules and continue to support the store they have no incentive to change the rules. Either express your frustration to the manager and refuse to buy product there, contact GWHQ and tell them of your decision, or suck it up and put up with the rules.

Although I wonder if this was simply a troll thread to see how far the "GW can do nothing wrong" crowd on Dakka is willing to go. I suspect if you posted "GW refused to take my money and would only accept sacrificial blood of virgins" there would be more than a few people saying that it's a reasonable policy.

i havent been in my local GW for a few months,
so forgive me if im out of date with this, but:

food and drink, even water, i can understand (a fair few people, me included, still use inks, and water would ruin them)

if the FW models were cosmetic, or if you and your opponent had agreed beforehand, i can see no problem
.

the other are all rediculous: talking off subject??

last time i checked at bristol, it was fine, last time i checked at cribbs, it was fine, last time i checked at bath, they changed thier gaming night to one i am busy on (NOOOOO!)

this problem seems to be local, i would complain, especially about 1-4

No. 1 applies in mine, but only one of the staff members actually enforces it when they're not needed. They have four tables, and generally they need at least two free for intros, but then again it's such a small store that that's never an issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and "no talking about non-hobby" applies, but only if you're not doing any hobby anyway.

honestly the GW near me is not like this at all. It could be a local problem...

My store won't let you sit on the stools unless modelling (not gaming) and you can't have food or drink in the shop after they had to replace a carpet due to a monstrous coffee stain.

In the store's defence though, even the guy who doesn't like me lets me sit on the stools to do stuff (I have a bad back and knee) and I was aghast at the idea of eating/drinking in the store anyway.

Haven't seen anything about the ForgeWorld models, but the only ones I used were Grey Knight Dreads and Tau Crisis Suits (purely for the cool look, use them as Codex) plus I haven't gamed in there for a dog's age so...

curtis wrote:Resisting... urge... to... white... knight...

PSA: Games Workshops are not your personal hang outs, they are shops.

The problem is that I read time and again that GW can justify various policies, such as prices and their phobia of even a mention of other manufacturers, on the basis that they supply a community for gaming and modelling. That can't be reasonably argued alongside some of these restrictions.

Not all of them are silly though, just most.


Seating - If you're supplying a hobby centre in which to game, then supply some chairs. It's just stupid to prevent people sitting on chairs if they aren't being used. It's probably circumstance-specific. They feel they can push the gamers around to follow their silly rules. But picture this i it's near christmas time and couple of kids go in there picking stuff they want and their mother sits down to rest her feet because of the mound of christmas shopping she's been dragging around all day. Common enough sight in December I would think. You think the staff are going to tell her that as she's not painting or even a gamer she should get up? Hell No.

Topic of conversation. I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to play games for long periods in your 'hobby centre' and then expect everyone to 'talk shop' all the the time. Normal conversations wander. I can see an issue with someone going on and on about some other wargames products but really have a chat about TV when playing a game is normal.

No watching of games - I can see why they don't want a huge crowd congregating. But otherwise, this seems stupid.

No Forgeworld - getting fed up of this. Okay, so you can't use non-GW in shop. Now you can't use certain types of GW in the shop, even though FW books are on the shelves and you can buy it through the store? Stupid.

Food and drink - most shops don't allow this because it can be messy and smelly. I don't think you should be prevented from having bottled water though.

Using store resources - honestly it's not too much to ask that you bring your own measuring tape and stuff because the stuff in the shop is for demo games. Same goes for people trying to use books off the shelf to check rules.

So yeah, the thing about food (mostly) and store tools are okay, the rest seems very stupid. It wouldn't be so bad, but GW claim to run hobby centre, they are supposed to be more than shops that partly why prices are so high yeah? Hmm, okay. But anyway if they are going to make it that difficult to play there, then they might as well scrap the hobby nonsense.

I can see that with the pokey nature of allot of GW stores, the seating and watching games could be simply be to keep access ways free and open. Which is a requirement of public accessed buildings (Health and Safety - GAH!).

All the rest of it as Howard said.

Damn, I must be really getting old to find it that easy to explain silly rules.

Seating: Depends. Some GW's have tons of space, some barley have walking room for one fat guy to get between the table and the wall. If the primary goal is to allow customers to get to product, then people shouldn't be chillin on a stool all day. I have never seen 'stools' at GW except at the painting tables. Most of the tables I have seen are too high to sit at and you stand all day. Never been an issue.

Convo: Well... I have seen adults talk very inappropriate and have the attitude of 'If you don't want your kid to hear it, then supervise your kid.' We all know parents use GW as day care so it is hard to blame GW who is probably getting crapped on by parents whose Kid came home after hearing adults curse and talk about inappropriate things. Like most GW policies, they are seldom enforced but there to protect GW from unreasonable adults who harm the gaming space. If a topic is really inappropriate they can point to the sign and ask them to change topic or leave.

Watching: Depends. Space is tight, some spectators are annoying and customers who don;t know anything about the store walk in and see they can touch and play with models on table A, but not on table B? They don't know the models belong to you so they grab model sof fyour table. ideally a GW redshirt should have intercepted the people but I find not spectating to protect the gamer as well as the customer so the first interaction isn't some old person saying 'get the frack of my mini you turd!' to their kid (which does happen)

No Forgeworld: I see FW all the time. My GW even does group buys so we can buy FW without the 12% shipping. They even did a local contemptor dred contest where people bought a bunch and painted them up.

Food or drink: Nope. get that stuff out of the store. It has no place in the store. You can't bring food or drink into about 90% of retail stores. I see no issue.

Store resources: bring your own stuff. Don't steal the stores stuff. Don't break the spines or spill jam or jelly on the books that other costumers are expected to buy.

I have seen GWs with only 2 tables and the demo table and there is barley room to walk around... I think it really depends on the size of your GW. I can see this stuff being reasonable in small hole-in-the-wall GWs where play is really not intended. Larger GWs which are equipped for this type of play seem like it is not an issue. This sounds more like a Local issue and possibly a kneejerk reaction to the people who game there than an overall GW policy issue.

I read threads like these and continually wonder - why would anyone choose to game at a GW store? Surely anything else is a better option, even if it means setting up your own club locally? At least you don't have impositions on what you can and can't talk about, whether you can use other manufacturer's minis etc etc.

I beleive all these points can be argued, however my store are really taking it to the extreme, bottled water kept in your bag under the table, whats the harm in having a sip and putting it back, topic of conversation as long as it isnt offensive or inapropriate should not be a problem as long as your in the store to actually do some hobby, if the store is busy then the seating rule should be in effect, however if you have popped down to take a look at the latest releases etc, you see a friend there whos doing some hobby. there is a free seat and no one else wishing to use it, why cant you sit down next to them to take a look at what they are doing for example?

I have looked into an alternative gaming club and luckily found one held at a pub function room and seems really popular, also i think i am now going to either shop online or from a different independent store, i have just had enough of all these petty rules which have ruined the gaming club, im sure they have noticed the sheer drop in club attendees, it was once full with all paintstations taken up all tables taken up and people on a waiting list for a game.

I wouldn't know, since they closed down all the GW stores anywhere near me years ago. Of course, I wouldn't play there anyway. I'm not a GW purist, so I don't use strictly GW models, which is a cardinal sin in their eyes. I've actually had their employees tell me that it's a shame that I can't play there, since my armies always get a lot of attention and attract people, but alas, I guess adhering to their guidelines is more important than attracting new players to the hobby.

Also, most of the shops around here do at least a 10% military discount, so there's really no reason for me to go with GW's retail prices.

I play regularly at my local GW shop, which is small (one 6x4, one 4x4 gaming tables) and often crowded.

There are four painting stations (plus two that are used for painting tutorials but the staff seem happy enough for them to be used by 'droppers in' while there's no tutoring going on). The shop allows drinks (except possibly fizzy ones, which I can see as there is potential for real mess with fizzy drinks), but doesn't seem keen on food.

To be honest I don't know many shops of any sort that are at all happy with any form of food or drink being consumed on the premises so I wouldn't regard a blanket ban as unreasonable at all.

Part of the problem might stem from the fact that GW bill their shops as 'hobby centres'. But actually, they're shops. The fact they let you play games and paint in there does not mean they are some kind of cafe where sipping lattes and chatting about TV shows would be normal, nor does it mean that you're actually entitled to anything at all. I sometimes get a bit narked if on games night (when they have three 4x4 tables), it's really busy and yet all three display tables are sitting idle. But then I remember that while it's in GW 's interest to encourage gaming, it's also their business to sell stuff and entrap newcomers.

And the reality is that the shop basically runs open gaming every day bar weekends (when they have events), so there's lots of opportunities to play when the shop is less busy.

if you have popped down to take a look at the latest releases etc, you see a friend there whos doing some hobby. there is a free seat and no one else wishing to use it, why cant you sit down next to them to take a look at what they are doing for example?

I completely agree. And yet I wonder why the measures are being enforced so stringently. It's clearly not a company-wide policy, rather a strict enforcing of the guidleines. I'd say that could be a manager overplaying his hand, or it could be a reaction to customers taking the piss. It's a fact that regular visitors to any venue tend to gain a sense of entitlement/ownership and often begin to relax and behave in a way that seems entirely normal and reasonable to them, yet is off-putting to outsiders. I don't say the original poster is guilty of this, just that if some or many regulars are beginning to treat the shop as more of a drop-in day centre and less as a shop, the manager may be reacting to that (and of course he may not be reacting in the best possible way, but nobody is perfect).

Steelmage99 wrote:Most of these rules seems just fine.

A GW store is not your (generic "your") free version of a local country club where you get to hang out, loaf about, eat/drink and shoot the s**t with your friends. It is a store with a very specific goal.

Well yes. But the very specific goal is to make money.)

I'd lose money at my store if I took away the stools, controlled the conversation, banned peoples models, and made sure no one watched a game.

Food and drink can be a bit of a pain, especially on a big day with 50 gamers in the store, but it's just a bit of work, and asking people to toss their trash.

I'd add that I think my local GW's gaming nights are almost always enjoyable and it's a generally great place to game outwith gaming night too.

I've also never seen any staff member object to a Forge World model. What they do encourage people who own models with FW rules to do though is bring the rules alomng with them if they want to play them. I suspect any 'banning' is not an outright ban it's a 'you can't play with it unless you've brought the rules for it' ban. because otherwise, given how easy it is to forget model-specific rules, it's a potential source of some mild grief.

Blood and Slaughter wrote: To be honest I don't know many shops of any sort that are at all happy with any form of food or drink being consumed on the premises so I wouldn't regard a blanket ban as unreasonable at all.

Far less fun though. Heres the menu for what we'll cook up in crockpots in the back room and serve for lunch at our next GT:

Friday Night: A couple of large pots of chili and hotdogs. BYOB for gaming past 9:30 until 1:00am or so.

Saturday: Hot Roast Beef Sandwichs (Marinated London Broil cooked on the grill, sliced thin, and cooked up in Au Jus)
Red Bean and Beef Chili
More Chili Dogs and BYOB for late night gaming.

Sunday: Grilled Sausage Sandwiches with sauteed onions and Peppers.
Black Bean and Jimmi Dean Sausage Chili

Twinkies, Ho-Ho's and other bad things for desert.

Even with that much food, and 50 people eating it, we don't have much of a problem. And my store is inside a large shopping mall with a lot of traffic in and out. Providing adequate places to toss the trash, and a little pick up goes a long way.

I think part of it for you Mike comes from the fact that you are providing the food.

You make it feel less like a store/event and more like a host/guest relationship--and people are a lot more likely to clean up after themselves in that case.

Well my local GW sometimes have cake at a Saturday event, so I agree, there's a wee bit difference between shop-supplied and customer-brought food. And overall space would play a part too. My local GW is quite cramped, not actually much bigger than my flat's living room. Not much room for burger guzzling really (whereas cake dished out at one time and consumed within 5 minutes is less of a logictical problem, and as Kanluwen said, people are more respectful when it's something given or bought on the premises).

I'd love it if my local GW had couches and six gaming tables and a little cafe and so forth and so on. But given it is what it is, it's pretty good.

To be honest I think GW have for a long time been in a Catch 22 situation and I don't know how long it can last for. The idea of having a store that can support 4-8 gamers coming in to paint and game is great, but this day and age is impractical and expensive. I think they need to shut down a load more stores and just have key big ones, with Battle Bunkers. Or if they are going to keep the small ones open, they just sell and advise, that's it.

Wolfstan wrote:The idea of having a store that can support 4-8 gamers coming in to paint and game is great, but this day and age is impractical and expensive.

I wonder how almost all of the LGSs that I've heard of manage to do it then...

Perhaps because a LGS is able to control it more? I don't know. It could be that a LGS is able to combine a store and gaming club, better than GW can. Lets face it a few years ago, probably more so in the UK, the GW stores were treated as free child minder clubs in the school holidays, if you went in, there would be swam's of kids. All of whom would need to be watched over, meaning more staff, but not making money.

From what I've heard over the years the gamers who go to a LGS are more hard core and don't need to be looked after. They come in, chat, paint, game and make purchases. Perhaps a lot of LGS owners are more laidback about the whole thing? Who knows?!

Came to the party a little late here, but WOW, thats so strict, it's hard to believe!

Really?

I've seen the last two items enforced somewhat regularly at GW Seattle. The point is they want you to bring your own stuff (rules, dice, tapemeasure, etc.) to play the game and not constantly be borrowing stuff. This is because a) they're a store and they want to sell stuff, and b) they don't want to lose their own stuff when people fail to bring them back.

The food and drink rule is something I've seen at non-GW stores, too.

yea, speak to a manager and tell HQ. The one thing stores look for in expansion is continuity. You "should" be able to go into any GW store and get the same experience. 1-4 sound like bitter employees, not general store rules. Help make your gaming store better, make your voice heard.

I have a drawer full of tape measures, extra dice, and templates. All stuff left at the store goes in there. Every couple of years it fills up and I have to toss a dozen big clunky tape measures and a bunch of battered templates, keeping a dozen or so of the best ones.

What does disappear: clippers or tools of any sort, scatter dice.