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The Space Wolves are a very valuable chapter for the Imperium and they have proven their loyalty time and time again. No Inquisitor worthy of the name would declare them to be traitors. Deviants is a possability, but the curse is relativly minor compared to what other marine chapters have had and it is relativly stable.

Truth be told, the Inquisition does suspect that the Space Wolves have some sort of mutation going on. they just don't have any proof.


Being an original Legion is another major boost. They were loyal during the Heresy and up to the current point.

The Space Wolves are also universally popular as a chapter with both the general populace of the IoM and with many of their military commanders and their fellow chapters. Inquisitors won't jeperdize the stability of the IoM over the Space Wolves.

I am under the impression that after the 13th Crusade and the stalemate in Cadia the last thing the IoM needs is another marine civil war and with a first founding chapter, where many worlds are in-debt to them and with a reputation of noble albeit a bit more savage warriors. The =][= has better chance declaring the Emperor a heretic at this particular time. Dont forget circumstances play a big role also; not only alliances and politics. You dont condemn someone who is fighting for you, especially when you have Chaos at your doorstep bashing the door in...

If now we are talking generally, still the answer is no for all the reasons everybody else said.

No explicit daemon worship no Exterminatus/excommunication/damnation/

Eumerin wrote:It's an open secret, though, that the Ecclesiarchy and the Ordo Hereticus largely ignore those practices in the interests of harmony between the marines and the rest of the Imperium as attempting to purge the chapters of those practices would essentially force the extermination of nearly all of the chapters.

Again, it already happened. The Ecclesiarchy's assault on Fenris must have been sanctioned by both the High Lords as well as the Ordo Hereticus (which, as an organization, also does not have an issue with all Marines btw). That's way more political enemies than any other still-loyal Astartes Chapter has made, because the vast majority of Marines is still playing by the unofficial rules and simply keep to themselves without pulling stupid gak like telling the Inquisition how to do its job or slaughter a bunch of visiting clerics at the door of their fortress. Most Chapters adhere to a certain balance between independence and deference in that they can at least be talked to, even if they won't divulge all their secrets or may not always follow a request. The Wolves just keep on being a loose cannon that doesn't bow to anyone, which is something many in the Imperium do not appreciate. Glorious past aside, they're as much an annoyance to the IoM as they are to its enemies.

Successfully purging or banishing Chapters also occurs somewhat more often than some seem to believe (i.e. not at all). In the current timeline, the Flesh Tearers are about to be excommunicated, following that "incident" at Point Gaius on Armageddon. Just like the Rainbow Warriors and the Sons of Malice were.

And by the way, neither during the Plague of Unbelief nor the Ecclesiarchy's last attack on Fenris did any other Marine Chapter or even a Rogue Trader (why on Terra would...?) show up to reinforce them. Granted, the last campaign only lasted weeks, which probably was simply too short, but you'd imagine that the 3 years of siege warfare due to Bucharis should've been enough time for all those alleged allies of the Space Wolves to join them. And just for the record - neither the millions of Guardsmen nor the crews of the hundreds of Navy warships seemed to throw a major fit over being ordered to attack the SW. You are underestimating Imperial faith/discipline/loyalty and overestimating the various Marines' ties (how many Chapters managed to rally to besiege Vandire? A whopping four?). As the past has shown, there is no "delicate political situation" with the SW (not anymore at least), only plot armour protecting a fan-favorite that acts way too rebellious in an environment that should be dominated by order.

Lynata wrote:

Eumerin wrote:It's an open secret, though, that the Ecclesiarchy and the Ordo Hereticus largely ignore those practices in the interests of harmony between the marines and the rest of the Imperium as attempting to purge the chapters of those practices would essentially force the extermination of nearly all of the chapters.

Again, it already happened. The Ecclesiarchy's assault on Fenris must have been sanctioned by both the High Lords as well as the Ordo Hereticus (which, as an organization, also does not have an issue with all Marines btw). That's way more political enemies than any other still-loyal Astartes Chapter has made, because the vast majority of Marines is still playing by the unofficial rules and simply keep to themselves without pulling stupid gak like telling the Inquisition how to do its job or slaughter a bunch of visiting clerics at the door of their fortress. Most Chapters adhere to a certain balance between independence and deference in that they can at least be talked to, even if they won't divulge all their secrets or may not always follow a request. The Wolves just keep on being a loose cannon that doesn't bow to anyone, which is something many in the Imperium do not appreciate. Glorious past aside, they're as much an annoyance to the IoM as they are to its enemies.

Successfully purging or banishing Chapters also occurs somewhat more often than some seem to believe (i.e. not at all). In the current timeline, the Flesh Tearers are about to be excommunicated, following that "incident" at Point Gaius on Armageddon. Just like the Rainbow Warriors and the Sons of Malice were.

And by the way, neither during the Plague of Unbelief nor the Ecclesiarchy's last attack on Fenris did any other Marine Chapter or even a Rogue Trader (why on Terra would...?) show up to reinforce them. Granted, the last campaign only lasted weeks, which probably was simply too short, but you'd imagine that the 3 years of siege warfare due to Bucharis should've been enough time for all those alleged allies of the Space Wolves to join them. And just for the record - neither the millions of Guardsmen nor the crews of the hundreds of Navy warships seemed to throw a major fit over being ordered to attack the SW. You are underestimating Imperial faith/discipline/loyalty and overestimating the various Marines' ties (how many Chapters managed to rally to besiege Vandire? A whopping four?). As the past has shown, there is no "delicate political situation" with the SW (not anymore at least), only plot armour protecting a fan-favorite that acts way too rebellious in an environment that should be dominated by order.

In fairness we get very little information on the situation regarding both the Attack by Bucharis and also the attack by the Ecclesiarchy later on...

purplefood wrote:In fairness we get very little information on the situation regarding both the Attack by Bucharis and also the attack by the Ecclesiarchy later on...

To the second I'm inclined to agree, but the Plague of Unbelief is fairly well fleshed out - what would you like to know more about in that regard?

nomotog wrote:I can't see anyone actually trying to kill off the SW. I mean wouldn't it just make more sense to ground them. Take away there battle barges and require them to ask for transport. Can they do that?

Nope not how it would work, the wolves have a protection pact with on of the astropath houses, they get first dibs on transports/

I'm a bit puzzled why a conflict between the Space Wolves and a faction of the Inquisition (or the Ecclesiarchy) is treated as such a big deal. STuff like this happens all the time, and only sometimes does it escalate to the sort of thing people are proposing - and usually it stems directly from the very same political infighting that is part and parcel of the Imperium. Even the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy fights with itself (the former because there is no real unity in it, and the puritans see the radicals as a dire threat and vice versa, and the latter because its composed of so many different even contradictory creeds.) Hell the Inquisition will even fight with the Ecclesiarchy (which includes the Hereticus) due to that whole "Reign of Blood" thing - as I recall the SoB are supposed to be watching over the Ecclersiarchy as much as serving as its army.

We know of Space Marine chapters getting purged by the Inquisition (privately) - EG such as the Celestial Lions, or the Relictors, but it's not really all that common. You start wiping out Space Marine chapters willy nilly and you start causing problems.

nomotog wrote:Take away there battle barges [...]

For some reason I read that in Carron's voice.

Connor MacLeod wrote:I'm a bit puzzled why a conflict between the Space Wolves and a faction of the Inquisition (or the Ecclesiarchy) is treated as such a big deal. STuff like this happens all the time, and only sometimes does it escalate to the sort of thing people are proposing

I think it's because the Space Wolves are pretty much the one and only Chapter that keeps "stepping out of line", getting into trouble with so many other powerful Imperial organizations. They're just the "odd man out" and have crossed that thin line more than one time, and many players think there should be consequences for that kind of behavior. Many other Chapters have been purged for much less, it's just that the SW keep appearing as using that "get out of jail free", with pretty much every other Imperial faction being their punching ball when they feel like it.

I kinda doubt that. The Flesh tearers have done it (including Slaughtering SoB quite a bit, and complaining) - the Blood Angels AND the Dark Angels have come into conflicts with various organizations in the past (both because of their respective little secrets) and I'm pretty sure the Black Templars have as well (if for no other reason they ignore the Codex.) There are Space Marine Chapters who get in trouble with the Inquisition and AdMech for not obeying that Gene-seed tithe, and even Huron didn't really gain the serious notice of the High Lords until he told them to feth off.

There's like thousands of sectors, tens of thousands of subsectors in the Imperium, and each has its own little subset of the larger Imperial organizations. Infighting like this happens all the time, and even if the Space Wolves piss off the local branches of those organizations it hardly means the organization as a whole must take notice. Particularily when those selfsame organizatiosn will be fighting with each other for power, influence, etc. (EG Calixis, Scarus, Jericho's REach, etc.) And its doubtful the Space Wolves are going to earn any special recognition because of what they do.

The Inquisition has thrown its weight around before. The SM like to maintain their autonomy if you go so far as to accuse a founding chapter then you are basically accusing them all.

You take the one chapter who has clashed with them the most and progress it to the worst outcome possible which is a civil war between two factions of the IoM.

Space Marines aren't quite as prone to infighting as other organizations, but they have their own politics and issues, so they do fight or even kill each other as well.

The main thing is, so is everyone else, and it creates a very messy situation. Even IF the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition were as a whole pissed off at the Wolves, taht doesn't mean they can fixate on them to wipe them out because they're too busy fighting other internal and external threats across the galaxy as well as fighitng political battles to maintain their power against the other organs of Imperial government.

Space Marines do have their squabbles, but when it comes down to it they are all Battle Brothers and they will consider both sides before they answer the call of the Inquisition to purge a fellow chapter.

I'd think its more likely that the High Lords and the various other, highly political (And not fanatical) factions of the Imperium would weigh the consequences of letting a well known Chapter that has strong roots in the dawn of the Imperium being wiped out just because it pissed some priests and Inquisitors off. They don't go initiating pogroms in the Ecclesiarchy or Inquisition (That we know of) just because one priest, Inquisitor, or whatever fethed up some other organization's stuff (like say Siege of Vraks, or any random "destroy part of the Imperium to make the rest strnger" type of radical Inquisitor.)

Space Marines are and have always been known as an independent faction and they always do things their own way, much like the AdMech. And its well established that the independent factions will do what they need to do to stay independent, which by definition brings them into conflict (Because most of the organizations of the Imperium deep down believe they should be running things and resent the fact that everyone else gets in the way.)

Don't forget there's factions in the Imperium (esp among the Ecclesiarchy and puritanical Inquisitors) that would love to purge the Navigators and abhumans too because they are FILTHY MUTANTS that must be destroyed.

Politics is one of the biggest unifying factors (and problems) the Imperium faces. Its what helps keep it together (or at least the mutual self interest part of it does) and it sone of the things that keeps it from unifying to wipe out everything else facing it (Because it wastes resources in fighting itself as much as it fights others.)

Connor MacLeod wrote:Space Marines aren't quite as prone to infighting as other organizations, but they have their own politics and issues, so they do fight or even kill each other as well.

Badab War lol.

Badab War is the most recent example, but the Black Templars have fought with the RElictors on Armageddon as well, and conflicts between the Salamanders and Marines Malevolent have almost lead to conflicts. And of course there are the Soul Drinkers

Hell the Marines Malevolent are a good example of a Chapter who have pissed off a good many people and yet survive, as are the Flesh Tearers. And neither is a particularily numerous, well-supplied, or well-connected Chapter. As are the Minotaurs, Black Dragons... there's lots of Chapters that get into conflict with different groups (usually someone the Inquisition doesn't like) if you look hard enough. And many of them piss off the AdMech and the "scions of Gulliman" by either not conforming to AdMech stirctures regarding technology, withholding technology, or giving the finger to the Codex.

It's a galaxy of conflict after all

Connor MacLeod wrote:Don't forget there's factions in the Imperium (esp among the Ecclesiarchy and puritanical Inquisitors) that would love to purge the Navigators and abhumans too because they are FILTHY MUTANTS that must be destroyed.

Navigators are so useful that one could probably gun down an inquisitor in the street and get off with a slap on the wrist, as long as he keeps guiding the ships the IoM needs to survive. Politics, aye... but in the end it's naked practicality and money counting that wins the day.

If the guy (or in this case the Space Wolves) is of more use than hindrance it's not worth the resources to get rid of them - I don't mean just the army or fleet that wipes them out but the new chapter that must be provided to fill the place of the SW. Founding a new chapter and supplying it with starter gear is costly and not done just because you want to replace a chapter that's still working for the IoM, mostly. The price is simply too high considering the SWs crimes are mostly barking loud and sometimes killing a few easily replaced priests.

Navigators are useful, but they're not exactly vital. You can travel through the warp without them (Chartist captains do it all the time, and you can use computers and stuff) but its just vastly slower than it is with a Navigator. The Imperium would lose speed and what passes for mobility and their logistics woudl suffer, but they could survive losing Navigators. (Especially if they kept Astropaths)

What they can't stand losing is Terra and the Emperor, for various reasons.

Space Marines are going to be at least as useful as a Navigator because they're what passes for Quick response forces in the Imperium (The Navy is sort of, and Storm Troopers are too) but the Space Marines are the point of the spear, as they are oftend escribed. They're the ones who take on the toughest threats, they're the ones who carry the offense (when they are present) and they face up to the sorts of threats that the Guard usually isn't designed to face. And while yes, they can create more Space Marines, I wouldn't call that a trivial or cheap endeavour. SPace Marines take years to create, condition, equip, and you can't make just ANYONE a marine.

Besides which there's that whole propoganda/mythology angle to deal with - Space Marines have been around for thousands of years and are as much objects of veneration in some ways as the Emperor is (more like saints than gods, or maybe demigods.) in no small part because they are descendents of the Emperor. You can't just throw a Chapter out because it causes trouble and not have repercussions with that. It would be as drastic a change as purging theAdministratum Ecclesiarchy from a region of space would - and both of those factions can be just as troublesome (if not moreso) than the Space Marines are.

indeed, I would argue that the Ecclesiarchy and the Adminstratum are perhaps the more self-destructive elements of the Imperium. But they are also so entrencehd by now you can't deal without them, so they have to stay or the Imperium woudl cease to exist.

Connor MacLeod wrote:I kinda doubt that. The Flesh tearers have done it (including Slaughtering SoB quite a bit, and complaining)

Actually, I have just gotten my hands on the original source (WD #251) - and this seems to be another of those "urban myths" that just started to circulate with everyone picking it up without doubting its truth. I dunno if it was already falsified to begin with or if word of mouth has twisted it.

The truth is:
- The Flesh Tearers never got to "slaughter the SoB quite a bit", as the latter have withdrawn from Point Gaius upon seeing something was "wrong"
- The Flesh Tearers are about to get purged

If you don't want to hunt down WD #251 for this, it's also referenced a little on the old Armageddon campaign website, which you may still reach by using the Waybackmachine internet archive:
Canoness Carmina's After Action Report
Firewastes area background, mentioning the entire FT Chapter being close to be excommunicated

Connor MacLeod wrote:Navigators are useful, but they're not exactly vital. You can travel through the warp without them (Chartist captains do it all the time, and you can use computers and stuff) but its just vastly slower than it is with a Navigator. The Imperium would lose speed and what passes for mobility and their logistics woudl suffer, but they could survive losing Navigators. (Especially if they kept Astropaths)

Not so sure about that, the Imperium's reaction time to threats is pathetic even with the Navigators. Without them, they wouldn't have a snowball's chance of mustering forces to counter any waagh or hive fleet attack. Consider what would have happened at Armageddon if the reinforcements had showed up even a week or two later than they did.

Anyway, if an Inquisitor decided the Wolves were a threat, he wouldn't necessarily need to destroy them, he could just work to make sure they're never strong enough to be a major threat. He'd talk to contacts in the Mecanicum and Administratum and decrease the availability of supplies. Make it harder for them to replace and repair their equipment. Then throw in requests for aid against suicidal odds at various battlespaces in the galaxy to draw off strength from Fenris and keep the Grand Companies understrength. Wolves would still be around, but they'd be much weakened.

Still though, you'd have to find the nuttiest Puritan out of a whole bunch of nutty Puritans to think that's a good idea. Though having an Istvaanian deciding that the Wolves had gotten lazy, and needed a good stiff kick to make them strong again would make a good hook for a Dark Heresy game.

The Space Wolves are too powerful a force and too strong an ally for the Imperium to go through with it IMHO.

Whilst they have their disagreements, the Space Wolves and Inq. are ultimately on the same side and are both valuable allies. The Space Wolves are a highly-popular, first-founding Chapter with a huge amount of backing from the common man, likely support from several other Chapters, a very-well defended World, an impressive combat record and (in all likelihood) a number of Space Marines in excess of that dictated by the Codex Astartes.

It would take a lot of man-power for the IoM to take out the entire Space Wolves chapter. The idea of an exterminatus has to still deal with the entire SW fleet and Fenris' orbital defences; again, no mean task.

Space Wolves are popular among the populace - as has been stated - as a result of their fame, history and tendency to look out for your average person (e.g. standing up for Armageddon's populace), so taking them out probably wouldn't be a popular move with your average person, whilst many military sources (including other SM Chapters) are also likely opposed to the idea, particularly one involving a notorious founding-Chapter/Legion, even more so when such military assets are so desperately needed in current 40k.

Furthermore, whilst they don't exactly fight for the Imperium itself, the Space Wolves are loyal to the Emperor and humanity as a whole and are a valuable fighting force/asset. Whilst they don't share the best relationship with the IoM and High Lords, the Space Wolves are still allies and valuable allies at that. The IoM can't really afford to loose them as an ally, nor spare the manpower to remove them as an opponent.

Whilst they may not be the best friends, the situation is much better for both parties if they just get along/leave each other alone, rather than go for one-anothers head, and this is how it is at the moment and will stay (in all likelihood).

-------

And why do people keep mentioning the Grey Knights?!

Just Dave wrote:Whilst they may not be the best friends, the situation is much better for both parties if they just get along/leave each other alone, rather than go for one-anothers head, and this is how it is at the moment and will stay (in all likelihood).

I agree, although I think you're overstating how important the SW's good reputation would be. They only have that reputation because Imperial propaganda lets them have that reputation. If they changed their mind about the usefulness of the Wolves, you could look forward to about a decade of stories pushing the opposite line.

(not saying that the Space Wolves aren't 'good guys' in the 40k setting, just that their reputation is whatever the Minitrue of the Imperium wants it to be)

daveNYC wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Whilst they may not be the best friends, the situation is much better for both parties if they just get along/leave each other alone, rather than go for one-anothers head, and this is how it is at the moment and will stay (in all likelihood).

I agree, although I think you're overstating how important the SW's good reputation would be. They only have that reputation because Imperial propaganda lets them have that reputation. If they changed their mind about the usefulness of the Wolves, you could look forward to about a decade of stories pushing the opposite line.

(not saying that the Space Wolves aren't 'good guys' in the 40k setting, just that their reputation is whatever the Minitrue of the Imperium wants it to be)

That's very true; the Imperium could potentially push some propoganda about them being Chaos-hugging loonies, but as you said yourself, they're currently being painted with a good reputation by the Imperium and with their history, this could be harder to remove than some chapters...

One thing I did forget to mention is that many other forces do also dislike the Space Wolves, but again, allies is still better than enemies.

akaean wrote:
but a single chapter of Marines cannot stand against the unified might of the Imperium.

KingDeath wrote:It wouldn't even be a particularly huge war. The idea that one or two thousand marines with perhaps a dozen capital ships ( of which most are light cruisers ) can stand even against a single imperial sector with billions of soldiers ( if we include the planetary pdf ) and easily twice the amount of capital ships ( assuming a ratio of two escorts per capital ship ) is idiotic.

The bit you are forgetting is that it won't be just the Space Wolves against all of the Imperium. Even with all of the small conflicts over the ages the Space Wolves have many allies and most of them are military.

If a late founding chapter such as the Astral Claws can get support during the Badab war, what do you think will happen if someone tries to to exterminate the Space Wolves? Nearly every single first founding will aid them, this will cause nearly all the chapters to aid them, also include all the military factions that would side with Logan Grimnar and you would have one massive war.


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Lynata wrote:Successfully purging or banishing Chapters also occurs somewhat more often than some seem to believe (i.e. not at all). In the current timeline, the Flesh Tearers are about to be excommunicated, following that "incident" at Point Gaius on Armageddon. Just like the Rainbow Warriors and the Sons of Malice were.

So you give only 2 actually references among more than a thousand chapters (and missed the Relictors), it is still uncommon to purge a chapter. But as alot of people forget First Founding chapters follow a different rule book and are practically untouchable, due to the massive support they have within the IoM. The Space Wolves get called savages alot on threads, but it was Logan Grimnar who wanted to safe the population of Armageddon after the 1st war, it is actions like this that have gained them alot of support.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Navigators are useful, but they're not exactly vital. You can travel through the warp without them (Chartist captains do it all the time, and you can use computers and stuff) but its just vastly slower than it is with a Navigator.

You are missing the point, yes warp travel is possible without Navigators, but Navigators are vital in keeping the IoM going, without the level of speed they allow in travel the IoM would not be able to work, just think about fleets and IG forces taking years/decades to get to a war zone, there would be nothing to save and a whole load of Xeno waiting.

BluntmanDC wrote:
You are missing the point, yes warp travel is possible without Navigators, but Navigators are vital in keeping the IoM going, without the level of speed they allow in travel the IoM would not be able to work, just think about fleets and IG forces taking years/decades to get to a war zone, there would be nothing to save and a whole load of Xeno waiting.

"years or decades to a war zone?" Are we talking about hauling regiments in from across the Segmentum or something? With the current sector/subsector makeup of the Imperium, you have small clusters of humanity (separated by no more than a few score or a few hundred LYs) that are separated by vast distances. (hundreds or thousands of light years). Each sector and subsector is a node of localized industrial and military power in an interdependent relationship (CG Scarus, Calixis, etc.) and for the most part self sufficient, and they accomplish this without relying entirely on Navigators to provide it (EG Chartist captains. Its slow but still viable. One obvious example is Tobias Maxila from Eisenhorn, whose ship was noted in the first novel to be entirely servitor run. Are there servitor Navigators in 40K that I haven't heard of?). I will also note that early 40K pretty much had the "unbearably slow but still possible" sorts of transit times that non-Navigator warp travel has (transit speeds were like a few hundred or a few thousand c, and youc ould spend literally decades trying to cross the galaxy, as opposed to the "months or years" of more recent 40K - and that was WITH Navigators.

So if they somehow lost the Navigator houses, yes, this would become a crippling blow, and it hampers their ability to coordinate and travel easily across thousands of light years (since Navigator-assisted travel is faster than non-navigator by at least an order of magnitude if not more), but it doesn't mean the Imperium suddenly totally, utterly disintegrates - it reverts back to an iteration from a much earlier era (greater levels of isolation, longer transit times, etc.) The only way that will happen is if the Emperor is lost.

BluntmanDC wrote:So you give only 2 actually references among more than a thousand chapters (and missed the Relictors), it is still uncommon to purge a chapter.

3 Examples. And there could easily be more in sources I've never even read or just don't recall at the moment. You're forgetting that the vast majority of Marine Chapters isn't even covered anywhere in the available material, be it studio or licensed, for whatever that's worth. Do we even have a list of the names of half of their number? Let alone their history or what their relationship with the IoM is.

All we know is that it happens, which some people in this thread didn't seem to believe at all, so I pointed out the above. *shrugs*
Does it happen often? Probably not (though the AS keep special equipment in store just for this singular purpose, if Andy Hoare's article in CJ49 is to be believed). But with such a limited force such as the Marines, I guess it happens "often enough". The old WH Codex certainly provided sufficient potential story arcs for a campaign background in that vein as well, and whilst this will not serve as a "proper" example it does let the whole affair look somewhat less exceptional than you insinuate.

A quick internet search added the Soul Drinkers, the Flame Falcons, the Grey Slayers to the list, by the way ... and you already mentioned the Relictors. How many more would be enough?

BluntmanDC wrote:But as alot of people forget First Founding chapters follow a different rule book and are practically untouchable, due to the massive support they have within the IoM.

Well, that's your opinion. The SW's alleged "massive support" obviously didn't prevent the High Lords from sanctioning an Ecclesiarchal attack on their planet.

Being a First Founding Chapter undoubtedly grants some clout, but it shouldn't (in my opinion) grant total immunity. And at the end of the day, the Space Wolves are the one and only Chapter that keeps getting attention by regularly screwing with the IoM whilst not having to suffer consequences. They let the entire Imperium look like a pushover. I'm totally okay with them remaining in the loyalist fold, they're a fan-favorite after all - I'm just saying that GW could at least either tone down the rebellious attitude a bit or hint at an ongoing investigation with potentially grave results (which will simply never matter in the timeline of the game). My thoughts on the subject, anyways.

BluntmanDC wrote:The Space Wolves get called savages alot on threads, but it was Logan Grimnar who wanted to safe the population of Armageddon after the 1st war, it is actions like this that have gained them alot of support.

If the Imperium were a democracy, I'm sure this would count for something.
Or maybe not even then. In the IoM, people generally do what the Ecclesiarchy tells them. Religion is a wonderful tool when you want to control a populace, and it might be comparatively easy for a Confessor to convince his flock, the people to whom he has been preaching for many years, that the Wolves have been corrupted and need to be purged. Who would shoot an appointed emissary of the Imperial Church in cold blood if not a heretic? And we're only talking about the truth here - imagine the wonderful propaganda they'd be able to come up with. Cannibalism, men turning into animals that hunt down helpless villagers, Chaos sorcery and arcane rituals!
That is, if such convincing is even deemed necessary. Why does everyone feel the Imperium would have to broadcast its plans to purge the SW across all its worlds before they do something? Imperial commoners don't have a galactic internet, and in the 3 years that Bucharis laid siege to the Fang, none of the citizens of the entire Segmentum Pacificus gave a grot's ass.

Again, this alleged support the Wolves enjoy didn't prevent their homeworld from getting assaulted by Imperial forces two times already. I'm sorry, I guess I just fail to see what should make a third time so much harder. Other than plot armour, ofc.

The Ecclesiarchy does not need the High Lords' sanction to do whatever the hell they please.

They constantly meddle in affairs that they should not be meddling in(without sanction from the High Lords), and their Witchfinders do come into conflict with the Inquisition in pursuit of psykers.

Kanluwen wrote:The Ecclesiarchy does not need the High Lords' sanction to do whatever the hell they please.

According to the 2E Codex, all Wars of Faith need approval by the Council of High Lords. In addition to this, the Ordo Hereticus may also intervene. It's part of the safeguards to prevent another Age of Apostasy. The SoB can act alone, but not the Ecclesiarchy.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Ecclesiarchy does not need the High Lords' sanction to do whatever the hell they please.

According to the 2E Codex, all Wars of Faith need approval by the Council of High Lords. In addition to this, the Ordo Hereticus may also intervene. It's part of the safeguards to prevent another Age of Apostasy. The SoB can act alone, but not the Ecclesiarchy.

Is the 2ed codex still valid?

Y'know, it's kind of funny.

The only example of the Ecclesiarchy attacking Fenris that I can find is Bucharis' "Empire"...which took place during the Age of Apostasy.


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Admittedly, I'm not looking too hard as I'm also writing a paper--but still.

purplefood wrote:Is the 2ed codex still valid?

I've never heard of this fluff having been retconned anywhere, at least. In fact, WD #292 made it clear that nothing ever published about the Sisters, including the ancient Rogue Trader fluff, was ever retconned.
Granted, this only means that any GW SoB fluff up until and including the Witch Hunters Codex is 100% consistent, but it's not like the Ecclesiarchy received much limelight after that.

Kanluwen wrote:Y'know, it's kind of funny.
The only example of the Ecclesiarchy attacking Fenris that I can find is Bucharis' "Empire"...which took place during the Age of Apostasy.

Aye, it only shows up in the 5E Space Wolves Codex... I wouldn't be aware of it either if someone else hadn't pointed it out.