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I think the issue is that while I don't find it hard to believe that the Space wolves have angered alot of other people in Imperial organizations.. that isn't neccesarily the same as angering the organization as a whole. Sometimes it can be - it depends on how many and who you anger, but you can piss off an Inquisitor (for example) or even a group of them and not bring the wrath fo the whole inquisition down on you (which is usually too busy with other things it deems important, up to and including fighting with itself.) Also the whole "ticking people off" angle does not occur in isolated cases - ALL various factions aggravate one another at one point or time - the Ecclesiarchy fights with the Inquisition (Secular vs Religious) Or Perhaps its Adminstratum vs Ecclesiarchy. Or the military vs the Ecclesiarchy - alot of that friction will stem pretty much from Vandire and events leading up to and following after that. the Ecclesiarchy is not too different from the rest of the Imperial Government - they see themselves as important, as bein gthe sole arbiters of the Emperor's will, and they often think that the Imperium would be much better off if everyone else did what they said. The military, the Administratum, the Inquisition, etc. all more or less think that way, and will squabble over it incessantly (noone wants to surrender their power or position, especially not to another faction.)

And on top of that, you have the fact that most Imperial organizations will have a degree of infighting as well. The Inquisition is an obvious example (puritans vs Radicals) but the Ecclesiarchy, composed of a myraid of creeds and cults from a million or more worlds, is not any less prone to infighting (each particular creed being convinced their view of the Emperor is the TRUE WAY) and that is likely to be a source of squabbling as well as clawing for secular authority.

Which again gets back to the point. Whether or not the Space wolves can weather an "assault" by another faction of the Imperium depends largely on the size and composition and influence of that faction. I will not ethat if you look at the Space Marine codex for 5th edition (which echoes much of the 2nd edition stuff) the Wolves have a large domain they have sovereighty over (5th ed mentions over a hundred worlds, which I assume are places similar to Garm in the Spce Wolf novel Gray Hunter and they also mention the fang is home to hundreds of Space wolf Warships (which I assume are liekly to be the strike/escort elements of the Wolf fleet, rather than the flagships/battle barge analogues.) so they do have considerable resources and defenses, not including those of the Fang and whatever orbital/system defence elemens they may have.

Lynata wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:But as alot of people forget First Founding chapters follow a different rule book and are practically untouchable, due to the massive support they have within the IoM.

Well, that's your opinion. The SW's alleged "massive support" obviously didn't prevent the High Lords from sanctioning an Ecclesiarchal attack on their planet.

Being a First Founding Chapter undoubtedly grants some clout, but it shouldn't (in my opinion) grant total immunity. And at the end of the day, the Space Wolves are the one and only Chapter that keeps getting attention by regularly screwing with the IoM whilst not having to suffer consequences. They let the entire Imperium look like a pushover.

Sorry... What? When? When did the High Lords sanction an Ecclesiarchal attack on Fenris?

Being a 1st founding chapter doesn't grant total immunity and I'm unsure what the Space Wolves have done to deserve yours and the High Lords/Ecclesiarchy's ire. They don't go out and attack the Ecclesiarchy and I don't know how they are 'regularly screwing with the IoM'; they fight to protect the realm of man, they led the defence of the 13th Black Crusade, they led the defence of Armageddon and they have helped the IoM in many other ways (hence, additional clout/support).
I'm still unsure why you think they are 'regularly screwing with the IoM'; AFAIK they attacked an Inquisitional Force attempting to investigate and other than their usual anti-authoritarian nature, that's about it? Unless you know something I don't?

Again though, the IoM is much better off with the Wolves as allies, rather than enemies.

Just Dave wrote:

Lynata wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:But as alot of people forget First Founding chapters follow a different rule book and are practically untouchable, due to the massive support they have within the IoM.

Well, that's your opinion. The SW's alleged "massive support" obviously didn't prevent the High Lords from sanctioning an Ecclesiarchal attack on their planet.

Being a First Founding Chapter undoubtedly grants some clout, but it shouldn't (in my opinion) grant total immunity. And at the end of the day, the Space Wolves are the one and only Chapter that keeps getting attention by regularly screwing with the IoM whilst not having to suffer consequences. They let the entire Imperium look like a pushover.

Sorry... What? When? When did the High Lords sanction an Ecclesiarchal attack on Fenris?

Being a 1st founding chapter doesn't grant total immunity and I'm unsure what the Space Wolves have done to deserve yours and the High Lords/Ecclesiarchy's ire. They don't go out and attack the Ecclesiarchy and I don't know how they are 'regularly screwing with the IoM'; they fight to protect the realm of man, they led the defence of the 13th Black Crusade, they led the defence of Armageddon and they have helped the IoM in many other ways (hence, additional clout/support).
I'm still unsure why you think they are 'regularly screwing with the IoM'; AFAIK they attacked an Inquisitional Force attempting to investigate and other than their usual anti-authoritarian nature, that's about it? Unless you know something I don't?

Again though, the IoM is much better off with the Wolves as allies, rather than enemies.

The Ecclesiarchy and the SoB (3 Orders of them i might add) moved to attack Fenris but gave up soon after...
Though considering the SoB are the Ecclesiarchy's troops i don't see why they made a distinction...
Not sure if the Frateris Militia count as troops or not...

purplefood wrote:The Ecclesiarchy and the SoB (3 Orders of them i might add) moved to attack Fenris but gave up soon after...
Though considering the SoB are the Ecclesiarchy's troops i don't see why they made a distinction...
Not sure if the Frateris Militia count as troops or not...

Oh yeah, but it mentions neither the High Lords nor was it an 'attack'. I got the impression it was the Ecclesiarchy attempting to investigate a rumour and they brought some SoB along for back-up... Maybe that's just me though, 'enter fenrisian space in force' could suggest an attack I suppose...

I'm fairly certain all they did was blockade Fenris. It lasted three years, and they eventually gave up. It was not a full out war between the Space Wolves and the Ecclisiarchy.

Just Dave wrote:

purplefood wrote:The Ecclesiarchy and the SoB (3 Orders of them i might add) moved to attack Fenris but gave up soon after...
Though considering the SoB are the Ecclesiarchy's troops i don't see why they made a distinction...
Not sure if the Frateris Militia count as troops or not...

Oh yeah, but it mentions neither the High Lords nor was it an 'attack'. I got the impression it was the Ecclesiarchy attempting to investigate a rumour and they brought some SoB along for back-up... Maybe that's just me though, 'enter fenrisian space in force' could suggest an attack I suppose...

Well the Sw blew away some tresspassers so they were kind of warranted in that though Adeptus Astartes homeworlds are sovereign territory in the Imperium. 3 Orders of SoB is some back-up...
Though you're right, it doesn't mention the High Lords but apparently they need the High Lords' permission for attack and such.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:I'm fairly certain all they did was blockade Fenris. It lasted three years, and they eventually gave up. It was not a full out war between the Space Wolves and the Ecclisiarchy.

The attack by Bucharis lasted 3 years, the 'attack' by the actually Ecclesiarchy lasted 3 weeks.
Though considering the SW attitude to anything in their space there probably would have been a fight.

iproxtaco wrote:I'm fairly certain all they did was blockade Fenris. It lasted three years, and they eventually gave up. It was not a full out war between the Space Wolves and the Ecclisiarchy.

It says three weeks in the Codex.

Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but it doesn't sound like a real 'attack' to me, nor does it certainly sound like full-on 'war'. They're not going to try and take out the Space Wolves with 3 Soritas Orders...

It sounds like a skirmish or maybe just a face off, neither side would be willing to start the fight since they would be the ones censured by the Imperium at large for the attack.

I'm confusing two separate incidents. I know there was a long-term blockade, but I think that was during the Apostasy or around that time.

iproxtaco wrote:I'm confusing two separate incidents. I know there was a long-term blockade, but I think that was during the Apostasy or around that time.

Switch blockade for full-on siege...
Cardinal Bucharis made himself a little empire just after the Apostasy stopped, he eventually bumped into Fenris and for some reason attacked it and got his arse handed to him...

Just Dave wrote:
Oh yeah, but it mentions neither the High Lords nor was it an 'attack'. I got the impression it was the Ecclesiarchy attempting to investigate a rumour and they brought some SoB along for back-up... Maybe that's just me though, 'enter fenrisian space in force' could suggest an attack I suppose...

The way it's worded makes it sound like the Ecclesiarchy showed up, demanded access to the "pagan savages who we want to purge if they don't accept the Imperial faith" that the Wolves recruit from...and the Wolves responded with "NOPE!" in the form of anti-ship defenses opening up.

Just for references, here is the full Codex quote:

The Ecclesiarchy Comes to Fenris 886.M41
A quorum of Ecclesiarchy officials approach Fenris, intending to inspect and assess the Space Wolves after hearing rumours of the worship of pagan gods. Amazingly, the Space Wolves open fire upon the Ecclesiarchy as soon as they come in range of the Fang's guns. Almost a year later, the Ecclesiarchy and three orders of the Adepta Sororitas attempt to enter Fenrisian space in force. The resultant war lasts for three weeks before the Ecclesiarchy decides to let sleeping dogs lie and withdraws its forces.

I'm aware.

It's supremely unhelpful for establishing anything.

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
Oh yeah, but it mentions neither the High Lords nor was it an 'attack'. I got the impression it was the Ecclesiarchy attempting to investigate a rumour and they brought some SoB along for back-up... Maybe that's just me though, 'enter fenrisian space in force' could suggest an attack I suppose...

The way it's worded makes it sound like the Ecclesiarchy showed up, demanded access to the "pagan savages who we want to purge if they don't accept the Imperial faith" that the Wolves recruit from...and the Wolves responded with "NOPE!" in the form of anti-ship defenses opening up.

Yup, thats pretty much what happened. My thanks to Lynata for posting the actual information.


Also, with a few notable exceptions most of SW vs IOM tussles all start from the IOM side of things. The wolves don't pick these fights, they just tend to respond with overwhelming force.

Jayden63 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
Oh yeah, but it mentions neither the High Lords nor was it an 'attack'. I got the impression it was the Ecclesiarchy attempting to investigate a rumour and they brought some SoB along for back-up... Maybe that's just me though, 'enter fenrisian space in force' could suggest an attack I suppose...

The way it's worded makes it sound like the Ecclesiarchy showed up, demanded access to the "pagan savages who we want to purge if they don't accept the Imperial faith" that the Wolves recruit from...and the Wolves responded with "NOPE!" in the form of anti-ship defenses opening up.

Yup, thats pretty much what happened. My thanks to Lynata for posting the actual information.


Also, with a few notable exceptions most of SW vs IOM tussles all start from the IOM side of things. The wolves don't pick these fights, they just tend to respond with overwhelming force.

That is what they were made to do...

When I read that passage I saw it as the Ecclesiarchy sticking their nose in where it didn't belong and getting warned off for invading Space wolf territory. Then they get mad and come back in force to press the issue.. what do they expect? Hell this is what I tend to expect from the Ministorum. They think everyone should be worshipping the Emperor the way they think (because it means tithe money to them and more and more secular power, because they are the ones who control the Imperial cult) They really hate the fact there are factions independent of the Imperial cult (the Marines and the AdMech in particular) even though its well known and estalbished that both factions cherish and defend their independence fiercely. Had the Ecclesiarchy approached the AdMech in that same way I can imagine the response would be the same. does that suddenly mean that a forge world suddenly needs to be declared hereitc and purged just because it doesn't want to bow down to the Ecclesiarchy?

As I said, this is all about politics. Stuff like this happens in the Imperium, including to the point where it spills into actual conflict and bloodshed.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm aware.
It's supremely unhelpful for establishing anything.

Given how many times this passage was referred to in a different way than it is actually written down ("no war", supposed lack of respect whose mention is absent from the original quote), I just wanted to make sure.

Connor MacLeod wrote:When I read that passage I saw it as the Ecclesiarchy sticking their nose in where it didn't belong and getting warned off for invading Space wolf territory.

Absolutely. It's just the "manner of response" that makes the SW stand apart from other Marine Chapters. You simply don't go around killing Imperial emissaries in cold blood just because you don't want to talk to them. Well, you can, but then we should expect there'd be consequences. And so far, these consequences are not what we are used to from the Imperium. 's all I'm saying. Then, this was about the Ecclesiarchy, which has a gak-ton of political influence throught the Imperium, but admittedly isn't all powerful. If you're fine forcing off the Inquisition, things just start to look odd, because the Inquisition > all.

You're forgetting context here though Lyn.

Fenris is completely offlimits to the Imperium at large. Even the Wolves let them just do whatever, provided they don't start worshiping Chaos.

The people of Fenris know about the Emperor in his role as "The Allfather" and "Russ the Wolf-Father", but there's not all that much else they're exposed to.

The Ecclesiarchy shows up, declaring that they're there to investigate the "worship of pagan gods"...that's pretty dang insulting to the Space Wolves, who have had that method of 'worship' going since the Great Crusade and the reunification of Russ with the Emperor.

And let's not forget that dependent upon whether or not the Age of Apostasy and the invasion of Fenris(and the slaughter of Fenris' population happening during it) is retconned or not...it suddenly becomes a case of the Wolves behaving in a manner that makes far, far more sense.

Especially if said Ecclesiarchal quorom just up and decided to show up, without getting the "approval of the High Lords"(which isn't always done, as I've said).

Lynata wrote:Absolutely. It's just the "manner of response" that makes the SW stand apart from other Marine Chapters. You simply don't go around killing Imperial emissaries in cold blood just because you don't want to talk to them. Well, you can, but then we should expect there'd be consequences. And so far, these consequences are not what we are used to from the Imperium. 's all I'm saying. Then, this was about the Ecclesiarchy, which has a gak-ton of political influence throught the Imperium, but admittedly isn't all powerful. If you're fine forcing off the Inquisition, things just start to look odd, because the Inquisition > all.

You kinda lost me here.

Are you saying they murdered people in the first case (when they opened fire as Ecclesiarchy agents approach to "investigate the purported heretics" - which is a pretty foolish thing to level at a Space Marine, especially with regards to his view of their Primarch) or when the Ecclesiarchy comes back, in force demanding that the Space Wolves let them in and submit to Ecclesiarchal authority at the barrel of a gun?

The former doesn't really say that anyone died - it just says they opened fire, which means anything from "warning shots" to "shooting to blow a ship out of the water" - and it doesn't even provide context beyond that they want to investigate the Space Wolves as supposed heretics.

In the second case, you have the Eccelsairchy bringing military force into a sovereign, Imperial-allied system, without permission, and attempting what amounts to an invasion.

Either way I'm at a loss to understand how the Space Wolves brought this on themselves because the Ecclesiarchy comes in making high-handed demands and expecting capitulation, then getting mad and trying to force the issue when the Wolves don't submit. If anything it sounds like extreme stupidity on the part of the Ecclesiarchs - I even feel sorry for the Sisters who would have gotten killed, because they're dying not for the Emperor, but for the ego and pride of a bunch of stupid priests.

This seems like another instance of the Inquisition throwing its weight around. The fact that they came back with a force after previously being scared off tells me someone was probably uncomfortable with the level of autonomy they have.

Then again most factions in the Imperium need this autonomy to do their jobs. Ad Mech or any other Space Marine chapter wouldn't stand for it but provoking a very volatile chapter like the Wolves just seemed ridiculous.

Russ Mandarin wrote:This seems like another instance of the Inquisition throwing its weight around. The fact that they came back with a force after previously being scared off tells me someone was probably uncomfortable with the level of autonomy they have.

Then again most factions in the Imperium need this autonomy to do their jobs. Ad Mech or any other Space Marine chapter wouldn't stand for it but provoking a very volatile chapter like the Wolves just seemed ridiculous.

It would be anoher case if it has been the Inquisition and not the Ecclesiarchy...
IMO the Inquisition only really throws its weight around when all that cna be achieved through sneaking has been achieved and what they really need now is a big gun and some handy meatshields.

If that ever happened the Imperium would of lost one of its most powerful chapters.

Harriticus wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:Space Marines aren't quite as prone to infighting as other organizations, but they have their own politics and issues, so they do fight or even kill each other as well.

Badab War lol.

The Badab war is a case of Astartes fighting Astartes, but as a rule they don't come to blows very often.

Space Marines may have a deep suspicion of chapters with different traditions, but as a group they will still side with a fellow Astartes over an Inquisitor any day of the week. they prefer to take care of divergent Astartes themselves and not get other Imperial organizations involved.

Grey Templar wrote:

Harriticus wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:Space Marines aren't quite as prone to infighting as other organizations, but they have their own politics and issues, so they do fight or even kill each other as well.

Badab War lol.

The Badab war is a case of Astartes fighting Astartes, but as a rule they don't come to blows very often.

Space Marines may have a deep suspicion of chapters with different traditions, but as a group they will still side with a fellow Astartes over an Inquisitor any day of the week. they prefer to take care of divergent Astartes themselves and not get other Imperial organizations involved.

In fact, this appears to be why some of the chapters ended up on the wrong side during the Badab War. They misunderstood what was going on, and thought that it was a case of the Imperium throwing its weight around against a fellow chapter. It wasn't until Huron's forces raided another chapter's shipping that the Marine chapters at large finally realized what Huron was up to.


As for the Ecclesiarchy's actions against the Wolves...

As I stated earlier, this merely appears to have been an instance of a particularly puritanical Ecclesiarchy official with some major political pull getting a bee in his bonnet about the Wolves for some reason. He probably chanted "Emperor Protects" one too many times during the services and thought that he could waltz right into Fenris without a care in the world. So he did something stupid and attempted to break the informal truce between the Ecclesiarchy and the marines. Once the marines responded in the predictable manner, the Ecclesiarchy was forced to give him some support. So they gave him just enough military force to make it look like he had some power but not enough to actually get anywhere, and let him run off to Fenris. The snubbing by the Wolves *required* some form of response. The Wolves' ability to keep the Ecclesiarchy fleet away from Fenris made the Ecclesiarchy look weak. But the Ecclesiarchy would have looked even weaker if it hadn't done anything at all (it's "The Wolves held us back, but YOU'RE not the Wolves!" vs "Thumb your nose at us with impunity; we won't do anything in response."). And breaking the informal truce would have been the biggest disaster of all.

And there's no way that the High Lords of Terra were involved in that mess. There simply wasn't enough turn around time between when the initial visitors were run off and when the military mission arrived. It's entirely possible that Earth didn't even hear about the incident until *after* the whole mess was over, let alone formulate a response and send it back.

Kanluwen wrote:Fenris is completely offlimits to the Imperium at large.

And where have you read that? Autonomy of a region isn't the same as isolation thereof, and the Space Marines are still an Imperial force, subject to Imperial decrees.

Kanluwen wrote:The Ecclesiarchy shows up, declaring that they're there to investigate the "worship of pagan gods"...that's pretty dang insulting to the Space Wolves

I posted the actual quote above, why are you again starting to say things that the source didn't mention?

Kanluwen wrote:Especially if said Ecclesiarchal quorom just up and decided to show up, without getting the "approval of the High Lords"(which isn't always done, as I've said).

Oh, I don't claim those priests had any approval (although they may have had the consent of the Ecclesiarch, who is at least one High Lord). It's just that the Ecclesiarchy needs approval of the entire Council to engage in a War of Faith. The only ones free to attack some Space Marine Chapter without green light from Terra are the SoB alone, though they usually only do so ad-hoc when their suspicions are aroused (see Argent Shroud vs Angels Vermillion). The Ecclesiarchy's operations, however, are tightly controlled by the Ordo Hereticus as well as the decrees passed after the Age of Apostasy.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Are you saying they murdered people in the first case (when they opened fire as Ecclesiarchy agents approach to "investigate the purported heretics" - which is a pretty foolish thing to level at a Space Marine, especially with regards to his view of their Primarch) or when the Ecclesiarchy comes back, in force demanding that the Space Wolves let them in and submit to Ecclesiarchal authority at the barrel of a gun?

The former, of course. And I really don't think the clerics have called the Marines "heretics".
Usually stuff like this goes: (a) Imperial emissary approaches and wants to talk, (b) Space Marines tell him to feth off, (c) guy leaves.
In this case, however, and unlike any other loyalist Chapter, the Wolves have waived the off-fething phase and killed them in cold blood. That's a damn suspicious thing. For the SW, I imagine they just had a good laugh at their style of flipping the IoM the finger, but I wager there's a couple highly influential people who think the furballs are currently "huronizing".

Connor MacLeod wrote:The former doesn't really say that anyone died

To quote, they "open fire upon the Ecclesiarchy". Warning shots from the Fang's guns will have a pretty devastating effect when detonating in the midst of a bunch of robed clergy.

Alas, I suppose this will be another topic where the opinions are just too far apart and surely influenced by personal perception. Due to the nature of how the franchise works, all of our interpretations are equally valid, anyways. I suppose all the stuff we already posted will be sufficient for any other readers to form their own opinion, too.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Fenris is completely offlimits to the Imperium at large.

And where have you read that? Autonomy of a region isn't the same as isolation thereof, and the Space Marines are still an Imperial force, subject to Imperial decrees.

Gee, let's see...everywhere that we've had an in-depth look at Fenris.

There's a reason that Fenris is at an Iron Age civilization level.

Kanluwen wrote:The Ecclesiarchy shows up, declaring that they're there to investigate the "worship of pagan gods"...that's pretty dang insulting to the Space Wolves

I posted the actual quote above, why are you again starting to say things that the source didn't mention?

That's what is in the quote.
The Ecclesiarchy was there, investigating the "worship of pagan gods".

Kanluwen wrote:Especially if said Ecclesiarchal quorom just up and decided to show up, without getting the "approval of the High Lords"(which isn't always done, as I've said).

Oh, I don't claim those priests had any approval (although they may have had the consent of the Ecclesiarch, who is at least one High Lord). It's just that the Ecclesiarchy needs approval of the entire Council to engage in a War of Faith. The only ones free to attack some Space Marine Chapter without green light from Terra are the SoB alone, though they usually only do so ad-hoc when their suspicions are aroused (see Argent Shroud vs Angels Vermillion). The Ecclesiarchy's operations, however, are tightly controlled by the Ordo Hereticus as well as the decrees passed after the Age of Apostasy.

With how many Wars of Faith get declared, are you really going to say every one of them has the entire Council behind them?

No, they don't. Just like every Imperial Crusade is not a War of Faith, every War of Faith does not necessarily have the full backing of the Imperium.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
While we're at it, let's clear something up.

Huron went rogue for a dang good reason. The guy was given the task of protecting critical Imperial worlds...and was expected to do it with practically nothing. His Chapter, the Astral Claws, was a newly founded one and shoved out there to tame a nearly wild sector of space.

They not only tamed it, but they made it into a highly productive and extremely well-trained sector of space in terms of the militia.

If they hadn't been goofing around with cloning Astartes and the Inquisition hadn't gone butting its head in, we very well could have had another Ultramar system.

Kanluwen wrote:Gee, let's see...everywhere that we've had an in-depth look at Fenris.

I presume you don't happen to have a quote at hand?

Kanluwen wrote:There's a reason that Fenris is at an Iron Age civilization level.

And this isn't it.

Kanluwen wrote:That's what is in the quote.
The Ecclesiarchy was there, investigating the "worship of pagan gods".

No, it is not. You keep writing it as if the clerics would have used that exact same wording just to antagonize the Marines and hence give them a better reason for the killing. You simply presume.

Kanluwen wrote:With how many Wars of Faith get declared, are you really going to say every one of them has the entire Council behind them?

Given that's what the Codex said, I suppose it must be so.
That said, I must admit I am actually unaware of the number of Wars of Faith that the Ecclesiarch declares in a year - or a millennium. I must have missed that source, care to enlighten me?

Kanluwen wrote:No, they don't. Just like every Imperial Crusade is not a War of Faith, every War of Faith does not necessarily have the full backing of the Imperium.

Apples and oranges. Every Imperial Crusade still has the full backing of the High Lords also.

Kanluwen wrote:While we're at it, let's clear something up.
Huron went rogue for a dang good reason. The guy was given the task of protecting critical Imperial worlds...and was expected to do it with practically nothing. His Chapter, the Astral Claws, was a newly founded one and shoved out there to tame a nearly wild sector of space.
They not only tamed it, but they made it into a highly productive and extremely well-trained sector of space in terms of the militia.
If they hadn't been goofing around with cloning Astartes and the Inquisition hadn't gone butting its head in, we very well could have had another Ultramar system.

I feel like in a courtroom already.

Call it what you want - withholding tithes, including gene-seed requested for purity screening, is an act of treason against the Imperium of Man. Shooting down the investigators that come looking where the tithe went is an act of war against the Imperium of Man. Huron was a megalomanic that wasn't satisfied with what he had and didn't understand that the Imperial resources he wanted for the Crusade that was to carve out his little pocket empire were needed elsewhere. You don't want to play ball, the Imperium comes for you. Sooner or later. Regardless of whether you're a governor or a Marine Chapter Master.

*: Again, my perception is shaped by the stuff I've read. Obviously you must have read different things, else our opinions wouldn't be so far apart. We're moving in a circle here, so I suppose we can only agree to disagree (again). At least none of us can be wrong.

Huron was a megalomaniac like another famous H-named person was a humanitarian.

Before the Imperium started pulling the defenses he worked so diligently to establish, everything was hunky-dory. It's not even like the guy chose to just say "Screw it! Let's go spiky!" one day because an Inquisitor was mean to him.

Kanluwen wrote:Huron was a megalomaniac like another famous H-named person was a humanitarian.

Before the Imperium started pulling the defenses he worked so diligently to establish, everything was hunky-dory. It's not even like the guy chose to just say "Screw it! Let's go spiky!" one day because an Inquisitor was mean to him.

Sane, rational folk don't decide to sacrifice planets worth of people so that they can become a daemon-god.

And he didn't do that until after the Badab War's conclusion, and even then it took a few decades to do it.