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It's whatever he wants it to be. He can shapeshift.

Master of Arms wrote:I never liked this theory, though it is a good one dont get me wrong.

Not really, considering we frequently see them both at the same time and occasionally acting at cross purposes. And if anything, Magnus would have noticed.

I would guess 10-11 feet. My logic? He's atleast as tall as a primarch, who are as tall as termies, who are ~1m taller than unarmoured marines, who are 7-8 feet (though in my mind they're eight feet, I just included 7-8 because there are contradictory sources).

Jimsolo wrote:I love you Calgar. That's one sweet conspiracy theory! It also explains (to my mind) why Horus was able to do as well as he did against the Emperor.

Having the massed power of the four Chaos Gods inside him isn't a good enough reason for you?

I think the theory is very much implausible, as Omegus said, Magnus at the very least surely would of noticed this.

Theory gives GW too much credit. They might retcon it in somehow, if they really have a 'crack' squad of geeks combing forums to safe guard their interests though.

Either way, if Magnus noticed, so what? Why would he particularly care? The Emperor is still all powerful on a psyker level which is what Magnus really cares about, a cyclops ain't gonna be caring about a guy's physical appearance and would probably understand the utility

Because then Magnus would have been psychically communing with Malcador rather than the Emperor at the Council of Nikea.

So? The theory suggests that they're the same consciousness

In order to be a theory, it has to be based on at least some evidence. At this point, it barely qualifies as a wacky idea.

Magnus (and even Ahriman) barely registered Malcador. That's unlikely to have been the case if Malcador was the real Emperor and the big glowy guy just a fancy prop. When Lorgar bitchslapped Malcador away from him, Malcador wouldn't have had to communicate Lorgar's disobedience to the Emperor. When John Grammaticus met the Emperor, Malcador didn't exist.


I can accept the possibility that Malcador may have been some fragment of the Emperor's great psyche, created so the Emperor could delegate more menial tasks (ya know, like running the Officio Assassinorium and Adeptus Administratum, and creating the Inquisition). It's unlikely, though not implausible, that he created Malcador so he could interact with his mortal subjects through a human face (mortals having a tendency to piss themselves from joy and dropping to their knees in supplication when in his presence).

It's still unfounded, and the face-value interpretation that Malcador was simply a powerful psyker who was a close and trusted associate of the Emperor makes just as much sense. I mean, why would the Emperor use the Malcador-shard to offer spiritual guidance to Dorn when the Primarchs saw Malcador as "a great man, but just a man"? More of his bad parenting style?

But regardless, despite not having any evidence to support it, I could conceive that of being the case. But the proposal that Malcador is the actual Emperor? That's just stupid and wrong.

the thing about theories like that is, as long as you stay strictly hypothetical, and you can invoke magic, you can explain away any apparent inconsistency. That's one plus about it. The downside is, just about any other competing theory can do the same thing, so there is functionally nothing that can "prove" one theory as superior to another.

If we stick to something simple such as Occam's Razor, its pretty unlikely that the theory about Malcador being the Emperor (or however it goes, I'm too lazy to check) is true. It's just as likely (and more easy to explain) that super Psyker Emperor has some super science or super magic that allows him to look bigger (or smaller) or he just changed over time.

I love the this Emperor Oz Theory. Nobody wants the lil guy to be in charge of their big shiny leader man. Haha, it is quite the little twist to be sure.

everythingi have read has it like this, normal person 5.5-6.0 ft tall, astartes about 2 ft taller 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall, custodes - about 2 ft taller - 9.5-10' and emp being 11.5-12

but he can project himself to be whatever he needs to be. the way a charismatic man can project confidence or sort of own a room, the emp is the same way, the power is just a little amped up

Always when I read discussions like these, I get the feeling like people have no grasp of what these numbers mean. 12 feet tall Emperor is just a ludicrous idea. Anyone taller than eight feet pretty much stops being able to interact with the normal human scale world.

Furthermore, I find this whole bigger=awesomer idea to be rather infantile. It works for orks, but I really see no reason to apply that pattern to the Imperium.

More I think of this, I prefer Emperor to be just a tallish normal man, six and half feet maybe. When imagine him fighting, I assume him to be more like a jedi knight rather than the Incredible Hulk.

The thing that really disproves this for me is the amount of times that GW use the whole 'He would have been the greatest X of the age, if not for Y, but he still served Y to the full extent of his abilities in X'. The prime example being Luther.


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And if the Emperor was twelve feet tall, how did an ork almost strangle him? Did it stand up straight or something?

Yeah, I am comfortable with the idea of the primarchs and the Emperor topping out around 8.5 ft, maybe 9 ft at the max. Anything past that would seem to indicate that the leaders of humanity couldn't even fit into 99% of the structures and vehicles they ruled over without crawling around on their hands and knees. The Emperor could certainly project himself to be any height he wished at any time though, so for all we know he really did look 12 feet tall in certain instances.

As for the Malcador-as-Emperor theory, yeah it's a wacky twist, has no real evidence, and incites a lot of strong reactions. It works just as well if Malcador was created by the Emperor to be his human face.

Either way it's just fun to think of, and hard to actually disprove considering how flexible any theory about the Emperor could be. In the presence of Magnus, or other powerful psykers, I have no doubt the Emperor could spoof Malcador to appear as a separate individual from the outside, and the link between them to be a normal telepathic conversation. Similarly, any debate occurring between Malcador and the Emperor might be for the benefit/manipulation of those around Him, say to squash a dissenting idea before it can gain any traction. The point isn't that the Emperor is a stage prop and Malcador is the real deal, it's that they're two vessels sharing one consciousness, which can split itself between them as needed.

I mean really, what's a body anyway to someone whose warp presence rivals the power of the Chaos Gods? When you're talking about a being of incalculable power, there are few limits to what is possible, story-wise. It's like debating over religion, there are few ways to really prove or disprove anything.

Edit for clarification: I'm not saying I believe this is true, and DEFINITELY not saying this is what Games Workshop intended. It's just a fun thought experiment, and I wanted to point out how tough it is to really prove or disprove anything about certain areas of fluff.

He is got to be as tall as a primarch or taller, considering that he was forced to fight some of them in order to convince them to join him. They would have wtfpwned him if he only was a 6ft tall midget

Not necessarily. He could have judo thrown them into a mountain or something.

He was probably really short considering the average height when he was born.

Johnnyboy955 wrote:everythingi have read has it like this, normal person 5.5-6.0 ft tall, astartes about 2 ft taller 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall, custodes - about 2 ft taller - 9.5-10' and emp being 11.5-12

but he can project himself to be whatever he needs to be. the way a charismatic man can project confidence or sort of own a room, the emp is the same way, the power is just a little amped up

A Custode is 2 feet taller? Sure.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:He is got to be as tall as a primarch or taller, considering that he was forced to fight some of them in order to convince them to join him. They would have wtfpwned him if he only was a 6ft tall midget

As amazing as it may seem, a person's martial prowess is not based solely on his height...

Crimson wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:He is got to be as tall as a primarch or taller, considering that he was forced to fight some of them in order to convince them to join him. They would have wtfpwned him if he only was a 6ft tall midget

As amazing as it may seem, a person's martial proves is not based solely on his height...

No, but usually it means more strength also. And the Primarchs were two times as large as a normal man (plus more powerful, faster and more cunning than a normal human). I think the Emperor would have had hard time beating them with those traits.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
No, but usually it means more strength also. And the Primarchs were two times as large as a normal man (plus more powerful, faster and more cunning than a normal human). I think the Emperor would have had hard time beating them with those traits.

I think thousands of years of battle experience and being the most powerful psyker who ever lived might help a little bit though.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:He is got to be as tall as a primarch or taller, considering that he was forced to fight some of them in order to convince them to join him. They would have wtfpwned him if he only was a 6ft tall midget

The Emperor never once fought purely physically. He was, in fact, incapable of such a thing based on his unique nature.

Also, as has been pointed out many times in this very thread, the Emperor could alter his own physical properties.

He punched Russ out anyway. Though I guess there's no way to prove that wasn't psychically enhanced... touché, sir.

Durza wrote:He punched Russ out anyway. Though I guess there's no way to prove that wasn't psychically enhanced... touché, sir.

Well with absolute zero psychic power the Emperor would likely just be a wise man. If it is passive psychic enhancement that just sorta happens, like his height and strength, then I don't think it would count as using psychic power.


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Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:He is got to be as tall as a primarch or taller, considering that he was forced to fight some of them in order to convince them to join him. They would have wtfpwned him if he only was a 6ft tall midget

As amazing as it may seem, a person's martial proves is not based solely on his height...

No, but usually it means more strength also. And the Primarchs were two times as large as a normal man (plus more powerful, faster and more cunning than a normal human). I think the Emperor would have had hard time beating them with those traits.

More than twice as large. They were about twice as tall, but you have to take into account their other dimensions would be proportionate, and maybe even greater, plus the square/cube law comes into effect...they'd be several times larger.

Twice as large as a very small man maybe. Seriously, did the Emperor never hear of 'small rooms' 'standard beds' or 'whiplash'?

im2randomghgh wrote:
More than twice as large. They were about twice as tall, but you have to take into account their other dimensions would be proportionate, and maybe even greater, plus the square/cube law comes into effect...they'd be several times larger.

Yeeah... I do not buy that either. I think Primarchs were just slightly taller than a normal Space Marine (Magnus being the exception), so they were from 7'6" to 8' tall. 6'6" Emperor could have sparred with them just fine.

I think Emperor being a giant makes him less awesome, not more. It is much more impressive if a normal looking man knocks the mighty Russ out.

Crimson wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
More than twice as large. They were about twice as tall, but you have to take into account their other dimensions would be proportionate, and maybe even greater, plus the square/cube law comes into effect...they'd be several times larger.

Yeeah... I do not buy that either. I think Primarchs were just slightly taller than a normal Space Marine (Magnus being the exception), so they were from 7'6" to 8' tall. 6'6" Emperor could have sparred with them just fine.

I think Emperor being a giant makes him less awesome, not more. It is much more impressive if a normal looking man knocks the mighty Russ out.

No, because Mortarion was stated as being as tall as a terminator while in bare feet, and TDA adds 1m to height IIRC. 3ft + 7-8ft=10-11 feet. There were enormous. And the Emperor was as tall as them because they were imperfect clones of him.

im2randomghgh wrote:
No, because Mortarion was stated as being as tall as a terminator while in bare feet, and TDA adds 1m to height IIRC. 3ft + 7-8ft=10-11 feet. There were enormous. And the Emperor was as tall as them because they were imperfect clones of him.

First of, there is no fething* way a terminator armour adds a metre of height. Stuff that adds height is the soles of the boots and that thing above the head, nothing else. That is a foot of height at most.

And even though Emperor made them, Primarchs are not clones of him. They are completely new beings. There is no reason that he has to be as tall as them.

(Furthermore, I'd take any Black Library sources with a huge dose of salt. Space Marine height inflation is rampant in that stuff.)

*(EDIT: Ok, what the hell is this? Is there a way to turn this profanity filter off?)

Durza wrote:The thing that really disproves this for me is the amount of times that GW use the whole 'He would have been the greatest X of the age, if not for Y, but he still served Y to the full extent of his abilities in X'. The prime example being Luther.


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And if the Emperor was twelve feet tall, how did an ork almost strangle him? Did it stand up straight or something?

Considering that Ghazghkull, a small Ork by comparison, is around 20 feet or 6 meters tall, I wouldn't call that impossible at all...

Crimson wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
No, because Mortarion was stated as being as tall as a terminator while in bare feet, and TDA adds 1m to height IIRC. 3ft + 7-8ft=10-11 feet. There were enormous. And the Emperor was as tall as them because they were imperfect clones of him.

First of, there is no fething* way a terminator armour adds a metre of height. Stuff that adds height is the soles of the boots and that thing above the head, nothing else. That is a foot of height at most.

And even though Emperor made them, Primarchs are not clones of him. They are completely new beings. There is no reason that he has to be as tall as them.

(Furthermore, I'd take any Black Library sources with a huge dose of salt. Space Marine height inflation is rampant in that stuff.)

*(EDIT: Ok, what the hell is this? Is there a way to turn this profanity filter off?)

Well You're thinking of terminator armour as armour in a very literal sense. Think of it more like Ironmonger from Iron man. DAT GUY'S HUGE!

Those suits are MASSIVE! There is a reason it is called tactical dreadnought armour. Rather than being heavy power armour, it is almost a light dreadnought.

I'd stake an "average" SM at around 7'6"-8', with exceptionally large marines (Pasanius, B'aken) being a few inches over eight feet.

I'd stake a Primarch at about 2' taller than a marine. this would mean a primarch of "average" height would be about 9'6". ex: in the HH series, Loken was described as coming up to Horus' chest.

And as for marine height exaggeration, Personally a marine is 7'6"-8" to me, but I am fine even with the description of 8'6" even in some books (i.e. night lords) it is not until the truly ridiculous one where I get annoyed, like in one of the short storied from Legends of the Space Marine where a Dark Hunter was 9' without PA.

Though I guess this could in theory be explained away by the fact that all the chapters have different home worlds, with different gravity strengths, as did the primarchs. I guess we should use the IF as a reference then since Terra maintains one of their bigger recruitment chapels.

The emperor is over 9000mm high!