The Emperors height.

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**CalgarsPimpHand**

Omegus wrote:That's just one illustration, there are plenty of others where the proportions simply don't make any sense unless Terminator armor is an exo-suit like that massive prototype armor in the first Ironman movie. In the novels, Space Marines in terminator armor are also frequently described as "towering" over their brethren.

Even then, that's just bad illustration or writing. Unless the marine fits entirely within the torso, or is outside the armor (see the "Baby Carrier"), when they move their arm, the arm of the suit will not be able to move in a corresponding way, and vice-versa. The joints will not line up. Even lining up the wrong joints doesn't work. If the elbow ends up in the shoulder joint, the shoulder is limited to the elbow's range of movement, and the marine inside can't move his shoulder. So the armor's upper arm is now the marine's lower arm, and the armor's lower arm is now... what? It doesn't work.

I understand the vast majority of 40k fluff and novels aren't hard sci-fi. But if we're going to discuss 40k as if it is hard sci-fi, we should at least try to keep basic things straight, like the physical possibility of moving inside the suit of armor.

**Castiel**

I'm basing it on descriptions from the Horus Heresy Series.

**Col. Kurtz**

When I hear descriptions that say terminator armor towers over power armor I often think not only is it slightly taller ( a foot or so) but also much bulkier which adds to the perception that it is much larger. Plus, think about what it is like hanging out with someone a foot taller than you. I have had a couple friends that top out around six foot five. One was fairly thin and the other was heavy set. I don't often notice how much taller my thinner friend is than me ( 5'7), but my heavier friend always seems to loom over everyone. Bulk defintly enhances perception of height.

**Grakmar**

Well, the Emperor has been living amongst us. If he is super tall, he'd be on record by now.

We also know that the Emperor is from Anatolia (modern Turkey).

I did a bit of poking around, and, guess what? The tallest living human is from Turkey! So, without further adieu, I present the Emperor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_K%C3%B6sen

**Psienesis**

He seems an affable sort.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Grakmar wrote:Well, the Emperor has been living amongst us. If he is super tall, he'd be on record by now.

We also know that the Emperor is from Angola.

Anatolia, not Angola. Angola is a country in southern Africa.

**Omegus**

Grakmar wrote:Well, the Emperor has been living amongst us. If he is super tall, he'd be on record by now.

We also know that the Emperor is from Anatolia (modern Turkey).

I did a bit of poking around, and, guess what? The tallest living human is from Turkey! So, without further adieu, I present the Emperor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_K%C3%B6sen

It's crazy how enormous a 2-2.5 foot difference really is. Now just make him twice or three times as wide and bulky, and you have yourself a large Astartes specimen.

**BrainDeleted**

That dude's ~8'3".........Frickin huge. Imagine him bulked the hell out and without all the awkward lankiness. Space Marines would be intimidating as heck (Though most wouldn't be THAT tall). Maybe he's Alpharius height.

This guy was 8'11" so...Primarch scale about? Filled out with appropriate muscle mass and awesomeness.

**Void__Dragon**

Crimson wrote:I think pretty much everyone agrees that Primarchs were bigger than normal marines. The disagreement is about how much bigger. I personally find the idea of three metres tall primarchs goofy. And frankly, I just do not trust any numbers from Black Library books. Some novels have had normal marines to be nine feet tall, and that is obviously totally off.

The difference is that we have other statements that tell you the height of a Marine that allow use to confidently say "That seems like bs."

Three meter tall Primarchs is the only number I can recall for the height of a Primarch. What is there to contradict it?

**Da Butcha**

Master of Arms wrote: Is his depiction in the art just an exxageration, because he is just a normal man, despite the fact hes immortal and one of the the greatest psyker in the galaxy.

Here's the part that I don't understand (and right there in the first post, no less!). Where are you getting that he's 'just a normal man', despite being immortal and psychic? While BL fluff isn't forced to be consistent, it's been repeatedly written that:

He has appeared as many different personages throughout history. Presumably people would have noticed if Caesar looked like Churchill (pick your own examples).

He was surrounded by a glowing golden light that obscured or completely hid his true visage at times.

So, you have a glowing, golden being who could appear to be different people of different nationalities (and different ages). How is this 'normal' in appearance? How is it anything BUT someone who can appear to others as he chooses, making questions like "how tall is the Emperor?" relatively meaningless without adding "in this particular instance?"

It's like asking what James Bond looks like. Unless you specify further, you're not gonna get much more than "human male, standard number of limbs".

**Crimson**

Void__Dragon wrote:
The difference is that we have other statements that tell you the height of a Marine that allow use to confidently say "That seems like bs."

Three meter tall Primarchs is the only number I can recall for the height of a Primarch. What is there to contradict it?

It is not like heights of Primarchs and Space Marines are completely unrelated matters. If they got Space Marine height 25% wrong, then it is perfectly plausible to assume that they got Primarch height wrong in similar degree. A ten feet tall Primarch is ludicrous, but makes more sense if they ended up there by first assuming that marines were nine feet tall.

**Master of Arms**

Omegus wrote:In order to be a theory, it has to be based on at least some evidence. At this point, it barely qualifies as a wacky idea.

Magnus (and even Ahriman) barely registered Malcador. That's unlikely to have been the case if Malcador was the real Emperor and the big glowy guy just a fancy prop. When Lorgar bitchslapped Malcador away from him, Malcador wouldn't have had to communicate Lorgar's disobedience to the Emperor. When John Grammaticus met the Emperor, Malcador didn't exist.

I can accept the possibility that Malcador may have been some fragment of the Emperor's great psyche, created so the Emperor could delegate more menial tasks (ya know, like running the Officio Assassinorium and Adeptus Administratum, and creating the Inquisition). It's unlikely, though not implausible, that he created Malcador so he could interact with his mortal subjects through a human face (mortals having a tendency to piss themselves from joy and dropping to their knees in supplication when in his presence).

It's still unfounded, and the face-value interpretation that Malcador was simply a powerful psyker who was a close and trusted associate of the Emperor makes just as much sense. I mean, why would the Emperor use the Malcador-shard to offer spiritual guidance to Dorn when the Primarchs saw Malcador as "a great man, but just a man"? More of his bad parenting style?

But regardless, despite not having any evidence to support it, I could conceive that of being the case. But the proposal that Malcador is the actual Emperor? That's just stupid and wrong.

Agree, sorry havent been on to comment on my own post for a while, been really busy lately.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Castiel wrote:(e.g. super xenos psyker kitten! Put the chainswords away, I was kidding! )

You do not joke about such things.

Agreed

**Master of Arms**

I always fought these proportions on this GK looked good.

**Durza**

Why the togas though?

**BrainDeleted**

SPACE ROMANS.

Don't question it.

**Connor MacLeod**

Heights of Space Marines (or even primarchs) is not fixed, any more than the heights of normal humans is fixed. Especially when you have to factor in the extreme genetic engineering that goes on. Creating any sort of super tall, super bulky entity requires some pretty exceptionally fancy genetic engineering, because in real life the extremely tall/gigantic people tend to have some pretty hefty biological problems (because they're carrying around alot more bulk than the body is designed to handle - it puts a strain on their body. Andre the Giant is, IIRC, the best example of this.)

**Void__Dragon**

Crimson wrote:It is not like heights of Primarchs and Space Marines are completely unrelated matters. If they got Space Marine height 25% wrong, then it is perfectly plausible to assume that they got Primarch height wrong in similar degree. A ten feet tall Primarch is ludicrous, but makes more sense if they ended up there by first assuming that marines were nine feet tall.

You say it's ludicrous, only... We don't know of any other source for the height of a Primarch. Only that they are bigger than Marines.

And frankly, why would a ten foot tall Primarch not be able to board a transport? Ogryns do all the time, and are similarly large.

**BrainDeleted**

Connor MacLeod wrote:Heights of Space Marines (or even primarchs) is not fixed, any more than the heights of normal humans is fixed. Especially when you have to factor in the extreme genetic engineering that goes on. Creating any sort of super tall, super bulky entity requires some pretty exceptionally fancy genetic engineering, because in real life the extremely tall/gigantic people tend to have some pretty hefty biological problems (because they're carrying around alot more bulk than the body is designed to handle - it puts a strain on their body. Andre the Giant is, IIRC, the best example of this.)

Yeah most humans over 7' tend to die before 30. Manute Bol was an exception because his HUGE height wasn't due to a tumor or other discrepancy, it was actually natural. He only made it to 47 though...

Robert Wadlow, the tallest man ever, (8'11") only made it to 22.

However, Space Marines have some serious fancy genetic engineering. The second heart and third lung really help them support their much larger body size. Reinforced bones also help them move without breaking.

**Omegus**

When I was a kid, I remember always being freaked out watching Bol play. I kept expecting those ridiculous legs to snap out from under him. He was also pretty terrible at basketball, but regardless, someone his size but five times the girth would be a freaky, scary thing. They'd make this guy look itty-bitty by comparison.

Space Marines really don't need to be 9' or whatever ridiculous heights they reach in some BL novels to be intimidating.

**The Son Of Russ**

a bit bigger than a primarch, space marines being 8ft, primarchs 10ft, emperor would be around 11ft. I don't like thinking of primarchs/space marines being small or around the same height. They are HUGE. they need to be to fight their enemies

**im2randomghgh**

Crimson wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
1. Again, think IRONMONGER

2. The sources differ too much. If you take a single, individual source (like you just did) then I could take any other, individual source. Like that silly short story where they're 9'.

8' is just an all too common description of them. Unless every single source that ever said they were 8' were retconned, but then BL wouldn't exist.

3. You are aware that Fulgrim killed an avatar by caving it's skull in with his fist right? It wasn't described as having any kind of size advantage over him. And they are at LEAST 10' tall, probably more, as Thirianna described it is more than twice her height.

1. I DO! And I have no idea how a person is supposed to fit in that either. Where are his real legs, where are his real arms? It is too small that a complete person could fit in the chest alone, and too big that limbs could be in the armour's limbs in a manner that would allow the joints to be even in remotely right places.

2. You are right that it is matter of preference. The canon is not consistent. I just think that BL authors are prone to silly exaggeration, so I rather trust Goodwin. BTW Deathwatch RPG gives unarmoured Space Marine height of slightly over 2,1 metres (so under seven feet.) That is again one divergent datapoint.

3. And Alpharius can be mistaken for a normal space marine. Fluff is inconsistent.

In the end, I am not trying to prove anyone wrong. This is fiction, nothing of this is real. I just try to illustrate why I personally prefer more conservative height numbers.

At least we can agree to disagree. Marines are 8' for me, primarchs are 10'+. I especially like these numbers because that would put marines at roughly half way in between the height of a primarch and a human.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrainDeleted wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:Heights of Space Marines (or even primarchs) is not fixed, any more than the heights of normal humans is fixed. Especially when you have to factor in the extreme genetic engineering that goes on. Creating any sort of super tall, super bulky entity requires some pretty exceptionally fancy genetic engineering, because in real life the extremely tall/gigantic people tend to have some pretty hefty biological problems (because they're carrying around alot more bulk than the body is designed to handle - it puts a strain on their body. Andre the Giant is, IIRC, the best example of this.)

Yeah most humans over 7' tend to die before 30. Manute Bol was an exception because his HUGE height wasn't due to a tumor or other discrepancy, it was actually natural. He only made it to 47 though...

Robert Wadlow, the tallest man ever, (8'11") only made it to 22.

However, Space Marines have some serious fancy genetic engineering. The second heart and third lung really help them support their much larger body size. Reinforced bones also help them move without breaking.

Plus, despite being huge, they are also disproportionately strong.