Worst Units

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**Kajon**

Retinue: SM servitor

**Durza**

The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

**nosferatu1001**

Attack bikes are bad? Excuse me? MM Attack bikes are wonderfully durable, very fast and deliver a good clean MM shot where you need it. And, if needs be, you can tie up weaker units as its still a T4/5 marine with 2 wounds.

Possessed are fething awful, agreed.

Lucius the eternal is a terrible HQ, but not as bad as Aun'va - nothing is.

Hormagaunts are a fairly bad troops choice - slower than they used to be and dont unlock anything useful, like troops choice tervigon.

**iproxtaco**

Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

What do you think went through Thorpe's head when the rules were made? One stupidly simple change and they'd be at least viable as a choice.

**Durza**

iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

What do you think went through Thorpe's head when the rules were made? One stupidly simple change and they'd be at least viable as a choice.

I think it probably went something along the lines of 'Chaos is random, so possessed should be random, but if I give them good random abilities, the Imperial fanboys will get annoyed, and if I give them upgrades, the randomness will be diluted.' Then his head exploded from trying to balance randomness and the only notes they found were the planned points cost and a rough sketch of what not to use as abilities. Unfortunately, it was the last incomplete entry, so they stuck the codex together and sold it. Oh, then they made a clone of him so no one would ever know.

**iproxtaco**

Durza wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

What do you think went through Thorpe's head when the rules were made? One stupidly simple change and they'd be at least viable as a choice.

I think it probably went something along the lines of 'Chaos is random, so possessed should be random, but if I give them good random abilities, the Imperial fanboys will get annoyed, and if I give them upgrades, the randomness will be diluted.' Then his head exploded from trying to balance randomness and the only notes they found were the planned points cost and a rough sketch of what not to use as abilities. Unfortunately, it was the last incomplete entry, so they stuck the codex together and sold it. Oh, then they made a clone of him so no one would ever know.

Sounds plausible. Although it begs the question; shouldn't GW be spending money on new Design studio members that can make me an Adeptus Mechanicus codex rather than using the money on expensive cloning techniques?

**lukyboi**

im going to defend the humble trukk here:

if you get a penetrating 6 with a melta cannon on it from a warlord titan, it could zip forwards INTO the enemy lines and then blow up!

they may suck by themselves, but they are fast, cheap, and you can use powerklaw armed nobs on enemy vehicles without disembarking!!
(you dont have to wait a turn for a charge move)

**Durza**

iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

What do you think went through Thorpe's head when the rules were made? One stupidly simple change and they'd be at least viable as a choice.

I think it probably went something along the lines of 'Chaos is random, so possessed should be random, but if I give them good random abilities, the Imperial fanboys will get annoyed, and if I give them upgrades, the randomness will be diluted.' Then his head exploded from trying to balance randomness and the only notes they found were the planned points cost and a rough sketch of what not to use as abilities. Unfortunately, it was the last incomplete entry, so they stuck the codex together and sold it. Oh, then they made a clone of him so no one would ever know.

Sounds plausible. Although it begs the question; shouldn't GW be spending money on new Design studio members that can make me an Adeptus Mechanicus codex rather than using the money on expensive cloning techniques?

It was an experiment. Soon they shall have a Matt Ward for every codex, with new editions coming out monthly. It's all part of their master plan to alienate their consumer base.

**iproxtaco**

Durza wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

What do you think went through Thorpe's head when the rules were made? One stupidly simple change and they'd be at least viable as a choice.

I think it probably went something along the lines of 'Chaos is random, so possessed should be random, but if I give them good random abilities, the Imperial fanboys will get annoyed, and if I give them upgrades, the randomness will be diluted.' Then his head exploded from trying to balance randomness and the only notes they found were the planned points cost and a rough sketch of what not to use as abilities. Unfortunately, it was the last incomplete entry, so they stuck the codex together and sold it. Oh, then they made a clone of him so no one would ever know.

Sounds plausible. Although it begs the question; shouldn't GW be spending money on new Design studio members that can make me an Adeptus Mechanicus codex rather than using the money on expensive cloning techniques?

It was an experiment. Soon they shall have a Matt Ward for every codex, with new editions coming out monthly. It's all part of their master plan to alienate their consumer base.

Oh god the horror. Not my beloved Chaos Codex, please

**Durza**

iproxtaco wrote:Oh god the horror. Not my beloved Chaos Codex, please

I can only hope that's sarcasm or you're talking about 3rd ed...

**iproxtaco**

Durza wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:Oh god the horror. Not my beloved Chaos Codex, please

I can only hope that's sarcasm or you're talking about 3rd ed...

If what you said is a prediction of the future, I don't want Mat Ward even having a hand in by beloved Chaos Legions Codex.

**Durza**

iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:Oh god the horror. Not my beloved Chaos Codex, please

I can only hope that's sarcasm or you're talking about 3rd ed...

If what you said is a prediction of the future, I don't want Mat Ward even having a hand in by beloved Chaos Legions Codex.

Hell, give him the rules, but burn any attempt he makes at fluff, hire an editor so it all makes sense and then get a decent writer to do a bit of background. It couldn't be any worse than the current one, right?... right?

**DAaddict**

Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

Followed closely by Dark Angels scouts.

**Vaktathi**

iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

What do you think went through Thorpe's head when the rules were made? One stupidly simple change and they'd be at least viable as a choice.

To be fair, Alessio also did a large part of the rules design, and the unit isn't *that* bad, it's not good, but there are far worse units out there, it's just that they're abilities aren't really something you can use to make a battle plan around and Terminators do the job better.

It's not like they're Ogryn or Spawn bad. They're simply mediocre and anything you'd use them for Terminators or basic CSM's can do better for the points.

**iproxtaco**

Vaktathi wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

What do you think went through Thorpe's head when the rules were made? One stupidly simple change and they'd be at least viable as a choice.
To be fair, Alessio also did a large part of the rules design, and the unit isn't *that* bad, it's not good, but there are far worse units out there, it's just that they're abilities aren't really something you can use to make a battle plan around and Terminators do the job better.

It's not like they're Ogryn or Spawn bad. They're simply mediocre and anything you'd use them for Terminators or basic CSM's can do better for the points.

I don't think they're horribly bad, I still run them in some lists mainly for fluff reasons and they aren't complete failures. It just irks me that they aren't that viable, but they could be with such a simple change to their rules, so it makes me wonder why the hell the design team didn't choose the other option.

**Brother SRM**

DAaddict wrote:
Durza wrote:The worst elites in my opinion would be Possessed Marines.

Followed closely by Dark Angels scouts.

Who are honestly just terrible because they take up an elites slot. As troops they'd be okay, but not great. As elites there's too many good options to waste your time on them.

**liam0404**

It pains me to say this - it REALLY does.

Wraithlords. I love em, but in this arena of nasty MC's (Trygons + Dreadknights), they just don't match up. With no invun, and only 3 wounds, some concentrated krak missiles can just end their day. Not that my wraithguard army leaves home without them much!!!!

**Jackster**

Lets see...
HQ - Ethereal of all kind
Elite - Pyrovore, Beast of Nurgle or Possessed
Troop - This one is hard... Rippers?
Fast Attack - Vespids, Chaos Spawn
Heavy - Flash Gitz
Transport: Immolator? Honestly this one is hard since transports are so important in 5th.

**Corrode**

Worst transport (in the context of comparison to other transports) has to be either Wave Serpents or Devilfish. Both are expensive without enough protection or oomph to justify it when compared to stuff like Rhinos or Venoms.

They're not bad, per se. Just not much bang for your buck compared to their peers.

**kitch102**

Why the mandrake hate? Is it just the no shooting until gained a kill or something else? I have 10...

**Jackster**

kitch102 wrote:Why the mandrake hate? Is it just the no shooting until gained a kill or something else? I have 10...

Not good at assault and as you said, cant shoot till you get a pain token.
That and they are in the same slot with Incubi and Trueborn.

**lukyboi**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Hormagaunts are a fairly bad troops choice - slower than they used to be and dont unlock anything useful, like troops choice tervigon.

Yes, but they are dirt cheap, make good shields, and look awesome!

**The Epic Chaosdude!!!**

Field Gen wrote:HQ: Ethereals from Tau and Big Mek with Nothing from Orks. No Shock Attack gun or the KFF. Just Big Mek. Even in a Vehicle list. He is 100% useless.

Elite Not sure. Never seen a "bad" Elite before. I would have to say Dreadnought if anything. Even with good weapons they suck hard core and get destroyed fast without getting back their points at all.

Troops Kroot are almost useless but for its army its OK. I might have to say Death Company is stupidest!

Fast Attack Land Speeders and War Buggies and that Tau Pariah equivalent are hands down the worst units in the game. The weapons are lame, They can to easily be destroyed and are Extremely limited in quantity. So lack of Quantity and Lack of Quality in Stats, Weapons, and they are just down right useless because of the other options in all codex that outshine them in every aspect of what they could do and what "you SHOULD be doing"

Heavy Support Flash Gits, I wanna use them at some point but Even I have to say that their cost needs to be reduced by a lot. Especially the upgrades that need to be reduced by 70% in order to make them good enough to be competitive enough to ever see the board ever again.

This sums up this whole post:
http://youtu.be/gZVsbpvjETs

**TrollPie**

From my limited knowledge (so just IG & Tau, which accounts for half the games' useless units):

HQ: Ethereals, especially Aun'va, Primaris Psyker, Techpriest

Troops: Conscripts, FW, Penal Legion, both Harker & Bastonne

Elites: Ratlings

Fast attack: Gun drones, Vespid, Mogul Kamir

Heavy Support: Skyray, all LRBT's except basic, Demolisher and Executioner, all IG Ordnance except the Basilisk, Pask, Deathstrike

DC: Devilfish

I think that's all

**Jackster**

Ratlings are actually fairly good for snipers, it's just the sniper rifle rule blows.

**Osyr**

If your troops are in a vehicle then the Ethereal dying won't affect them, so you can try to get him killed first turn to help make Tau not worry about morale. (like everyone else starts) Only useful if mechanized though. (then again foot Tau, it makes me slap knee)

Penal legion are points efficient, just not slot efficient. If you could take 30 man squads of them they would be decent.

Ratlings are still better then ogryns

Mogal Kamir is good for only one thing: evidence that lances are compatible with furious charge, cause that's the only thing explaining him. Though Straken giving rough riders furious charge does have an appeal

**TrollPie**

Osyr wrote:If your troops are in a vehicle then the Ethereal dying won't affect them, so you can try to get him killed first turn to help make Tau not worry about morale. (like everyone else starts) Only useful if mechanized though. (then again foot Tau, it makes me slap knee)

Penal legion are points efficient, just not slot efficient. If you could take 30 man squads of them they would be decent.

Ratlings are still better then ogryns

Mogal Kamir is good for only one thing: evidence that lances are compatible with furious charge, cause that's the only thing explaining him. Though Straken giving rough riders furious charge does have an appeal

Fire Warriors are always in a vehicle; if they're not then something's gone wrong. But the Battlesuits, the things you actually want on the table, usually have jetpacks and therefore retreat 3d6, as well as having crappy leadership.

Penal Legion are extremely unreliable.

Ratlings would be better than Ogryns if the current Sniper rules didn't suck. At least Ogryns can take some fire, and if you give them Yarrick you have one of the IG's only decent CC units.

The hunting lance rules specifically state that they always strike at S5 I5 AP2 the first time they charge IIRC, therefore overriding the FC rules. Then given Mogul's cost, Rage, and the fact that Rough Riders are already pretty bad...

Oh, and I forgot one. HQ: Nork Dedogg.

**DAaddict**

lukyboi wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Hormagaunts are a fairly bad troops choice - slower than they used to be and dont unlock anything useful, like troops choice tervigon.

Yes, but they are dirt cheap, make good shields, and look awesome!

And at their base cost, fairly reasonable. Also, if you want to play and assaulty army you really don't have to worry about synapse... *AGGGH! Out of Synapse!!* I am forced to assault things with my assault troops. Drat!!!

**Brother SRM**

TrollPie wrote:From my limited knowledge (so just IG & Tau, which accounts for half the games' useless units):

HQ: Ethereals, especially Aun'va, Primaris Psyker, Techpriest

Troops: Conscripts, FW, Penal Legion, both Harker & Bastonne

Elites: Ratlings

Fast attack: Gun drones, Vespid, Mogul Kamir

Heavy Support: Skyray, all LRBT's except basic, Demolisher and Executioner, all IG Ordnance except the Basilisk, Pask, Deathstrike

DC: Devilfish

I think that's all

Why are LRBTs bad? Basilisks are actually pretty much the worst IG ordnance as well, and Harker is actually pretty awesome. He gives your squad stealth and lets them infiltrate or outflank, which means you can just come in and ruin someone's day with a bunch of plasma/melta and mobile heavy bolter fire. Harker is awesome, even if he's a little pricey for a tourney list.

**Jackster**

Brother SRM wrote:
TrollPie wrote:From my limited knowledge (so just IG & Tau, which accounts for half the games' useless units):

HQ: Ethereals, especially Aun'va, Primaris Psyker, Techpriest

Troops: Conscripts, FW, Penal Legion, both Harker & Bastonne

Elites: Ratlings

Fast attack: Gun drones, Vespid, Mogul Kamir

Heavy Support: Skyray, all LRBT's except basic, Demolisher and Executioner, all IG Ordnance except the Basilisk, Pask, Deathstrike

DC: Devilfish

I think that's all

Why are LRBTs bad? Basilisks are actually pretty much the worst IG ordnance as well, and Harker is actually pretty awesome. He gives your squad stealth and lets them infiltrate or outflank, which means you can just come in and ruin someone's day with a bunch of plasma/melta and mobile heavy bolter fire. Harker is awesome, even if he's a little pricey for a tourney list.

Basilisk arent terrible, the min range is not great, but it's fairly cheap for what it does.