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Deadshot wrote:But you still can't attach them to MC units, AFAIK.

An oft misunderstood rule.

5ed RB pg 48 wrote:Independent characters are allowed to join other units. They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see the Vehicles section) and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures). They can join other independent characters though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!

Note its says 'like most'. Carnifexes are not a unit that always consists of a single model and are thus joinable by ICs like Tryranid Prime and Parasite.

Then, by way of the units partially in cover (pg 22), the unit as a whole can take a cover save as long as half or more of the models are in cover.

My mistake, then! I'll restrict my IC/MC activities to the permitted variety from now on.

Looks like I'll be sending those Tyrannofexes to their doom alone from now on! :p

Niiai wrote:You can attach Primes to the regular fexes. That is good.

Also, in bigger games, grabbing gargoyles usualy gives you MC's cover saves. It is cheap as well.

I am wondering, everybody keep talking about how good the dakkafex or just a pure carnifex is. Have anybody tryed any of it's bigger guns?

That goes for both the hive tyrant and the carnifex.

My wife has a small force of Nids, and so she likes to change around loadouts and stuff often, you know, to keep things fresh. And shes gone from CC oriented Fexes/Tyrants to strait up blow buildings down variants. I personally, dont like being shot by heavy venom cannons. They pack a whallop and can cause some damage, she has downed many an Ork vehicle with them. The only real drawback you could say against them, is on a bad scatter, the BS isnt fantastic. But she seems like prefer the MC devourers though, they arnt as strong as a heavy venom cannon sure, but they can make it up easily in shots. Id say as far as the bigger guns, the Heavy Venom Cannon is probably the only one thinking about.

But thats coming from a guy that doesnt actually play Nids, Ive played against them many times, and so can only give advice from an observer point of view

Ostrakon wrote:So are Termagants generally preferred to Hormagaunts for troops choices, even if I don't intend to take a bunch of Tervigons?

Not necessarily. Other than devourer gaunts the lethality of a flesh or spike gaunt is about the same as a hormagaunt. The advantage to the hormagaunt is the instinctive behavior is to charge into HTH rather than lurk and shoot. That means - if you get out of synapse - the hormagaunts are still going to charge in. Now on their own they are not that impressive but backed up by genestealers of any variety or some MCs and you should be able to overwhelm most targets.

I have a Fex from 4th ed Codex armed with a Heavy Venom cannon and Scything Talons. Took a whole SW army to droop it, including 2 long Fang units. Put him with a Venomthrope and off he went, shooting Bjorn's arm off, then ripping him a new one. He did well everygame. I put him next rto a pimped out Tyrant and a Venomthrope and he takes all the shots. if i manage toprocure an extra warrior tio use as a Prime, he is hopping in with the Fex to take wounds and hide for a 4+ cover. Then my Venomthrope can help protect my Trygon. Those big s are hard to hid, even behind a Fortress of Redemption.

You just gotta build terrain to hide those fellas

So are Termagants generally preferred to Hormagaunts for troops choices, even if I don't intend to take a bunch of Tervigons?

I'd rate stealers higher then either if going for no troop tervigons (and I personally take 2 units of stealers and 2 troop tervigons more often then not) -- they just bring more to the table then the gants with fewer disadvantages.

But between the two mentioned I think hormagants are better (WS5, reroll 1s, 2 attacks and 3d6 pick highest run/fleet is decent for 6 points) -- but only if completely ignoring the tervigon.

Frankly termagants are only remotely worthwhile because of the tervigon rules (and arguably the devourer upgrade for those willing to field such a glass hammer). Otherwise they are overcosted compared to like units (grots, boyz, IG, etc).

ruminator wrote:Sorry, that list doesn't work. Large MCs only work if they are quick and have ranged attack. 6 fexes with no CC option - no one is going to let anything of any worth get into CC with them.

Troop tervigons should then have toxin as well.

The 2 HQ tervigons not necessary. Get a tyrant and give him TL devourers as well. Tyrant guard then have the lash whip. Get a prime for the second HQ choice, he has a lot of utility.

That was from memory, a variant of something Stelek posted some time back.

* 6 fexes with no CC option eh? How about double Scything Talons, you call that shooting?
* Troop Tervigons doesn't have Toxin Sacs because as opposed to the HQ Tervigons they will hang back, of course, and their Termagants are more likely to not reach combat. If I could afford it, they would have TS.

The Carnifexes will have FNP, hopefully their 24 T6 wounds will be enough to make an impact or at least soak up enough dakka so that the Hive Guards and sea of Gants can win the game. Of course there are some terrible matchups out there, wouldn't be 5th ed Nids otherwise. But the list has a lot of MC's that has to die, good anti-transport shooting, a crapload of scoring units that can swarm the table and a strong synapse net. Kill point missions will hurt, but it could shine in objectives.

A variant would be

HQ
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines,
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Cluster Spines

Elite
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope

Troop
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines

Heavy Support
3 Carnifexes, Scything Talons (x2)
3 Carnifexes, Scything Talons (x2)
2 Carnifexes, Scything Talons (x2)

13 Monsterous Creatures
62 T6 wounds
2500 points

You should be able to hide the Venomthropes completely from LOS in some situations, cast FNP on Carnifexes from the troop Tervigons and the HQ Tervigons cast FNP on themselves as they run forward and spawn aggressively if needed.

Ok, typo. I think the message was still clear. Running 9 dual scything carnifexes across the board - 6" move + run, is going to take a whole lot of time to get across. No one with even half a brain is going to move towards them, so probably T4 before they get near anything. They then need to earn back their what 1,400 points back in what's left of the game.

Honestly, dakka fexes are a much better way to go. Their shooting is actually more reliable than their close combat. Even with re-rolls that WS3 does result in only 2-3 hits a turn going through, while with 12 S6 shots you are hitting maybe 7-8 times. Maybe not on a landraider, but good enough on transports.

Just as a side note, Crushing Claws are decent on Tervigons, as they are Int 1, but don't have LBR like Fexes.

Fexes with Crushing Claws are actually pretty decent at taking down non-walker vehicles. Because they don't use Int, so the Int 1 penalty is worthless, and gain 1-3 attacks which roll 2D6 for MC. Put a ST set to reroll 1s.

ruminator wrote:Ok, typo. I think the message was still clear. Running 9 dual scything carnifexes across the board - 6" move + run, is going to take a whole lot of time to get across. No one with even half a brain is going to move towards them, so probably T4 before they get near anything. They then need to earn back their what 1,400 points back in what's left of the game.

Honestly, dakka fexes are a much better way to go. Their shooting is actually more reliable than their close combat. Even with re-rolls that WS3 does result in only 2-3 hits a turn going through, while with 12 S6 shots you are hitting maybe 7-8 times. Maybe not on a landraider, but good enough on transports.

Ah, the making-back-the-points card. I thought that discussion died with 5th ed, along with victory points. As I said earlier with the first list - the Fexes aren't what wins the games. They are bait, more or less.

Dakkafexes are great, but they cost 180 points extra in the first list and 240 points extra in the latter, cutting into the MC numbers. Try it out, proxy and get back to us.

I would think that Nidzilla would actually be a pretty big surprise to run into.

The element of surprise alone could give you a lot of PUG (pick up game) wins.

I'm not a Nid player, but I can say that if you want to run some fexes, your best bet is to bring stealers to run as interference. Nothing takes fire off the big guys faster than some "in your face" nasty rending dudes with sneaky options.

Edit: Unless you want pure Nidzilla, then just make sure you place terrain with your opponent every other piece.

Nidzilla went the way of the Dodo when Codex: Dark Eldar came out. Our regular guns and pistols wound your MCs on a 4+ and we have a ton a Str 8 AP 2 fire. Add nightshields to the mix and you have the most one sided match up in 40k.

Shame on GW!

N.I.B. wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Nidzilla - viable?

Not below 2500 points, no. At 2500 points, I think this could cause a bit of trouble for many armies:

HQ
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines, Scything Talons
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines

Elite
3 Hive Guards
3 Hive Guards
3 Hive Guards

Troop
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Cluster Spines
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Cluster Spines
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines

Heavy Support
3 Carnifexes, Scything Talons (x2)
3 Carnifexes, Scything Talons (x2)

11 Monsterous Creatures
72 T6 wounds
2500 points

My Skulltaker would LOVE to play against this list. In fact, I wouldn't even need another model. I've had him ID two carnifexes at once, right after killing a hive tyrant, then going on to deal with 3 zoanthropes the next turn. 3 turns, and he killed about 800pts of tyranids. Yes, please run this list. I haven't fed him in a couple of months, he's getting a bit hungry...However, I don't speak for just him. With the abundance of force weapons running around (Farseers, Libby's, the whole GK codex, Mephiston, etc), 'Nids see a HUGE letdown. I love Carnifexes, I think they're probably the best plastic model GW ever made. If I played Nids, I'd use 9 of them. Unfortunately, I've seen the new 'Nid codex, and I feel I'd have to wait another codex edition to play them...

Obvious counters aside, I think the point has been proven. With some tweaking, I think it could work. It'd be rough, though.

I noticed that no one even mentioned the MC that I'm most interested in with Tyranids - the Mawloc! Seriously, large blast template wherever he comes out? Sounds so awesome to me, and I want to run one, bad. Does it suck a lot?

Mawloc performs badly in my experience. They may or may not hit with a moderately powerful blast, after which they're generally in charge range of a couple power fists. Hit & Run only helps if you survive the hail of plasma and accompanying S8 slap.

What about T-fexes then, folks? Two Rupture Cannon verses three Dakkafexes? Both options pose a threat to infantry, and the former adds fear of blasts forcing them to spread out (and thus perhaps be less likely to rapid fire Plasma etc), puts an eggtimer on AV14, and laughs at Krak and Splinter weapons. And it leaves a slot for a Trygon.

Might be vulnerable to Dark Lances, but there's still 12W to get through and a higher benchmark of 6W to start affecting your firepower.

The T-Fex has the same problem as the bothersome Tervigon. 3 ws 3 attack. :-p It is a 265 point tarpid. I know, I played with one and two loads of times and it is no dice.

The mawlock can be good. Some people have had good luck with it. But it is more from sneakyness then from the burst attack.

Say he pops up in the moddel of his tanks. Even if he does not scatter they just disembark and kill him with hammers or plasma/melta and into the tanks again.

Thanks, but no thanks.

The one I am looking to when I am playing 'Nids is hulksmash. But he is playing under the asumtion that nobody uses landraiders. In my local meta, everybody is using them. Often more then one in 1750 games.

timetowaste85 wrote:My Skulltaker would LOVE to play against this list. In fact, I wouldn't even need another model.

So the list is not viable for the 1/1000 chance of running into Skulltaker, a model with 2-3 wounds, a 3+ save and a 12" assault range that somehow will outrun 100 Gants with 18" assault range? Please come back when you're sober.
The list is not a tournament winner, but could place in the middle ground in a tournament, and could have a chance of an upset top ten depending on matchups and missions.