Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Harriticus wrote:C'tan are a mindless slave class now. No point comparing them to the Chaos Gods anymore. The Necrons were able to annihilate the C'tan, it's unfathomable for the Gods of Chaos to be overthrown by the likes of Abaddon, Mortarion, or Doombreed. One of Khorne's mightiest Bloodthirsters tried to make a move on him once and got literally thrown across the Warp.

I imagine that the C'tan thought being overthrown by the Necron was "unfathomable" so many years ago.

The Chaos Gods are a reflection of reality. The actions of reality influence the actions of the warp.

If it is to be believed that the Nightbringer is the "figure of death" then he was empowering Nurgle the whole time.

The Libre Chaotica books really clearify the way Choas works and is influenced.

DeffDred wrote:The Chaos Gods are a reflection of reality. The actions of reality influence the actions of the warp.

If it is to be believed that the Nightbringer is the "figure of death" then he was empowering Nurgle the whole time.

The Libre Chaotica books really clearify the way Choas works and is influenced.

The problem is the C'tan don't have and never have had any connection to the Warp. At. All.

The Chaos Gods are not a reflection of reality, they are a reflection of "emotions," the Warp being influenced by the emotions and thoughts of those who have a Warp connection.

The C'tan have none.

Void__Dragon wrote:
Weakened shard of Void Dragon=Emperor.

Void Dragon (Whole)>Emperor.

The C'tan were once mighty star-gods, but after the War in Heaven many of them (but not all) were shattered into Shards by their Necron vassals.

From http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=18500114a

The Void Dragon may never have been shattered. Even if he was, the Emperor defeated him, and as such the Emperor is more powerful than either that shard or the whole thing.

I voted Chaos because Chaos has brass-balled chutzpah and the C'tan are silly old naked people in space with cosmic eating disorders.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:From http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=18500114a

The Void Dragon may never have been shattered. Even if he was, the Emperor defeated him, and as such the Emperor is more powerful than either that shard or the whole thing.

By that logic a little girl could kick my ass because she can beat me up after I just hauled two hundred pounds up a mountain and had my legs and arms beaten by an aluminum bat wielded by Barry Bonds.

I didn't know all the C'tan were not made into shards, interesting.

But regardless, the Void Dragon was explicitly noted to be starving and weakened, with the Emperor fighting it while it was still trying to regain power.

Despite that, it was a more or less even fight, with the Void Dragon at first having the total advantage, the Emperor only winning when he found the weak spot in its necrodermis.

Whether it was a shard of the whole thing is unknown at this point, apparently.

Also, it was a joke, lol.

I dunno... Yakface back on the Necron Rumor thread posted that the nail in the coffin for the old ones was that a C'tan figured out how to breach the Webway thus giving the old ones nowhere to hide. So I guess perhaps now C'tan are able to enter the Warp... the Chaos Gods are so screwed once a few C'tan get around to piecing themselves back together.

That's... Odd.

Though, the Webway isn't necessarily the Warp, more of a meeting ground between the two universes, so maybe it's not quite anathema to the C'tan...?

Or maybe that was changed, whatever.

Ixion wrote:I voted Chaos because Chaos has brass-balled chutzpah and the C'tan are silly old naked people in space with cosmic eating disorders.

My LOL of the day !

Ixion wrote:I voted Chaos because Chaos has brass-balled chutzpah and the C'tan are silly old naked people in space with cosmic eating disorders.

^ LOL

Also when people bring up the "but the necrons enslaved them, they cant be so tough!" arguement you have to remember a couple of things...

1. This was like a rebellion as I understand it, the Necrons turned on their masters and the C'tan most likely didnt know entirely what was going on until it was too late.
2. They had just defeated the Old ones, this may have drained some of their powers. Infact I have no doubt that it did, they were most likely weakened at this point.
3. The Necrons empire is one of the mightiest empires that the galaxy has ever seen, second only to the Old ones, whom they destroyed.
4. The Necrons had been empowered by the C'tan, making them even more powerful.
5. The Necrons made the necrodermis bodies of the C'tan and therefore they would know all the weak spots and they would know how to effectively fight and defeat them.
6. The Necrons use weaponry thats way out of the league of anything else in the galaxy.
7. The Necron empire spanned the entire galaxy and more than likely had more troops ready for battle than the IG and SM put together, all with the strenght of a SM. They were by no means "weak".
8. A small fraction of the Necrons vast empire is awake in the current timeline of the 40k universe and they are one of the most dangerous threats to the galaxy at the moment. Imagine what the whole awakened empire could accomplish.

These are a few things you ned to keep in mind before starting that arguement. Im not saying that they are the all powerful beings and they will destroy everything blah blah... Im saying that it wasnt exacly an easy task and even though Im not a big fan of this new fluff I can see how it could definately work.

Chaos Gods have catchier warcries from their followers.

Star Gods get what? Silence.

"How to win an internet argument", a best-seller book by Thatguy91.

King Pariah wrote:I dunno... Yakface back on the Necron Rumor thread posted that the nail in the coffin for the old ones was that a C'tan figured out how to breach the Webway thus giving the old ones nowhere to hide.

So the Golden Throne is a C'tan artifact? Perhaps?

The old codex mentioned that the humans looted Necrontyr tech, during the Golden age. It would explain their meteroric rise against races that had been kicking around for aeons.

I've always thought of the Golden throne as a retroengineered Stasis Tomb, but there's little proof either way. It was designed by Big E (or Dorn in really ancient fluff..following E's battle with horus) but who knows what they were borrowing inspiration from

Ronin wrote:Chaos Gods have catchier warcries from their followers.

Star Gods get what? Silence.

The silence of the grave is magnitudes more intimidating than any amount of shouting could ever be.

Well of course chaos gods! Their measily lackeys have the power to destroy worlds and dominate galaxies, so how would C'tans have a change to defeat them?

From the Codex, it sounds like the C'tan were extraordinarily weakened after fighting and destroying the Old Ones, this was when the Necrons turned on them and thus waged the War in Heaven Part 3 pretty much. And there may be 4-4,000 shards running about fething gak up and piecing themselves back together. I'm going to bet that the Outsider is now going to be a collection of random shards from different C'tan all heaped into one crazy ass God.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Ronin wrote:Chaos Gods have catchier warcries from their followers.

Star Gods get what? Silence.

The silence of the grave is magnitudes more intimidating than any amount of shouting could ever be.

Even when that shouting is done by the embodiment of anger and decapitation? Or the whispers of your own desires? The creeping chuckle of death?

An enemy that fights in utter silence is by far more menacing and unnerving than one yelling at the top of his long.

Durza wrote:Even when that shouting is done by the embodiment of anger and decapitation? Or the whispers of your own desires? The creeping chuckle of death?

Yes.

For all the shouting of a Khornate Berzerker, blow off his head and he stays down.

The same can't be said for a Necron Immortal, who, while already heavily resistant to small-arms weaponry, just rebuilds itself when a killing blow is landed, and relentlessly pushes forward, cutting down all with bolts of green lightning. And while all this is happening, it says nothing. Not. A. Word.

I honestly don't think that there would be a single army except maybe Daemons that rivals the sheer intimidation of a Necron army, on an actual battlefield in the fluff.

I'm going to cast a breakaway vote for the Ork Gods in a WAAAGH state. There's literally nothing that can stop them when a really good WAAAAGH is brewing. Not even GEoM. (funny enough I remember some really old fluff even indicating this.)

Connor MacLeod wrote:I'm going to cast a breakaway vote for the Ork Gods in a WAAAGH state. There's literally nothing that can stop them when a really good WAAAAGH is brewing. Not even GEoM. (funny enough I remember some really old fluff even indicating this.)

The corpse god's eyes opened in fear when Gork and Mork stirred in the Warp.

Gork and Mork seem to be the most powerful deities in the Warp. It makes sense, when you consider that the Orks are by far the most numerous race in the galaxy.

Well the Tyranids may be more numerous, but Orks are the Greeniest and Stompiest.

Chaos Gods for the win.

Gods can't be beaten up by a bunch of no gooders that gets enslaved by their own slaves.

Ancre wrote:"How to win an internet argument", a best-seller book by Thatguy91.

Thanks, I do what I can.

KOS wrote:Chaos Gods for the win.

Gods can't be beaten up by a bunch of no gooders that gets enslaved by their own slaves.

Read my post further up the page....


The warp and the materium are two very different things. You cant make the arguement that the chaos gods could not go down the same path as the C'tan did as they basically control the warp and most things that reside in it. That is not the case in the materium. Completely different story.

C'tan are extremely powerful alien lifeforms. Chaos gods are, well, gods

Who'd win between a shark and a tiger?
It's pointless.

Joey wrote:Who'd win between a shark and a tiger?
It's pointless.

...hot damn, but that's a good analogy.

Joey wrote:Who'd win between a shark and a tiger?
It's pointless.

I was thinking about an analogy like this myself, actually. It's completely accurate.

Chaos Gods probably are more powerful than the C'tan, since the only way to hurt them is to remove all their worshippers (something the Emperor tried to do with his Imperial Truth), while the C'tan, according to Codex: Necrons 5th Edition, were 'broken' into shards by the Necrons after the War in Heaven. C'tan also get hurt by massive amounts of warp energy (Blackstone Fortress), while Chaos Gods won't get hurt by either material or warp-based weapons.