Primarchs as Aspects

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**TheAngrySquig**

CpatTom wrote:
TheAngrySquig wrote:
StormForged wrote:
Kurze=Cynicism.

Cynicism so deep he scares those around him.

Kurze is his childhood love of batman

BATMAN, dun nun nu nu na nu na (theme song humming noises) na na BATMAN!

Holy Heresy Batman, Kurze just went Chaos!

**Dash2021**

Soladrin wrote:Approachable.. charismatic and diplomat? I think you've got Horus mixed up with Lorgar now.

No one liked Lorgar.

All the primarchs were decent orators and highly charismatic as well. They all got a bit of all of the Emperor's personality. But most have one trait that is exaggerated more than the rest. I believe in one of the first 3 HH books (can't remember, they kinda all blend together now) Horus states that Sang should have been Warmaster, but the Emperor chose Horus because his ambition matched his fathers.

Also, I think Lorgar mentions what he believes his trait from his father is in First Heretic, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. Faith/devotion/loyalty? Not sure, but something along those lines.

**TheAngrySquig**

Erebus or Kor Phaeron says that it is his loyalty

**iproxtaco**

Dash2021 wrote:
Soladrin wrote:Approachable.. charismatic and diplomat? I think you've got Horus mixed up with Lorgar now.

No one liked Lorgar.

All the primarchs were decent orators and highly charismatic as well. They all got a bit of all of the Emperor's personality. But most have one trait that is exaggerated more than the rest. I believe in one of the first 3 HH books (can't remember, they kinda all blend together now) Horus states that Sang should have been Warmaster, but the Emperor chose Horus because his ambition matched his fathers.

Also, I think Lorgar mentions what he believes his trait from his father is in First Heretic, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. Faith/devotion/loyalty? Not sure, but something along those lines.

Conviction. Lorgar was completely and utterly convinced of his beliefs and goals. It radiated from him like a permanent aura. A fire burned in his eyes that showed how utterly unshakable he thought his faith was. Obviously, when the man he placed his faith told him everything he had done in the last 100 or so years was meaningless and that the was a failure, Lorgar lost that conviction until he found a new purpose.

I also completely disagree with the assumption that no one liked Lorgar. He was closest to Magnus, both were thinkers and philosophers, and also potent psykers. So far we've only had him communicate with the traitors on some level, and he managed to talk down an angry Russ, and seemed to get along with the others reasonably well, as well as siblings can. Lorgar was nothing if not a skilled orator and speaker, he could likely talk anyone into following him.

**TheAngrySquig**

iproxtaco wrote:
Dash2021 wrote:
Soladrin wrote:Approachable.. charismatic and diplomat? I think you've got Horus mixed up with Lorgar now.

No one liked Lorgar.

All the primarchs were decent orators and highly charismatic as well. They all got a bit of all of the Emperor's personality. But most have one trait that is exaggerated more than the rest. I believe in one of the first 3 HH books (can't remember, they kinda all blend together now) Horus states that Sang should have been Warmaster, but the Emperor chose Horus because his ambition matched his fathers.

Also, I think Lorgar mentions what he believes his trait from his father is in First Heretic, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. Faith/devotion/loyalty? Not sure, but something along those lines.

Conviction. Lorgar was completely and utterly convinced of his beliefs and goals. It radiated from him like a permanent aura. A fire burned in his eyes that showed how utterly unshakable he thought his faith was. Obviously, when the man he placed his faith told him everything he had done in the last 100 or so years was meaningless and that the was a failure, Lorgar lost that conviction until he found a new purpose.

I also completely disagree with the assumption that no one liked Lorgar. He was closest to Magnus, both were thinkers and philosophers, and also potent psykers. So far we've only had him communicate with the traitors on some level, and he managed to talk down an angry Russ, and seemed to get along with the others reasonably well, as well as siblings can. Lorgar was nothing if not a skilled orator and speaker, he could likely talk anyone into following him.

Lorgar was only really friends with Magnus and Horus though. Also this thing about talking down Russ isn't that impressive, I could do it.
Me "Russ stop being pissed and I'll give you more Corona"
Russ "HELL YEAH!"

**BrainDeleted**

TheAngrySquig wrote:Lorgar was only really friends with Magnus and Horus though. Also this thing about talking down Russ isn't that impressive, I could do it.
Me "Russ stop being pissed and I'll give you more Corona"
Russ "HELL YEAH!"

Be easier to just throw a stick.

**TheAngrySquig**

BrainDeleted wrote:
TheAngrySquig wrote:Lorgar was only really friends with Magnus and Horus though. Also this thing about talking down Russ isn't that impressive, I could do it.
Me "Russ stop being pissed and I'll give you more Corona"
Russ "HELL YEAH!"

Be easier to just throw a stick.

I actually fell of my chair loling

**The Epic Chaosdude!!!**

Ronin wrote:
TheAngrySquig wrote:He's also the one that almost caused a second heresy

You could say the same of the Space Wolves and the Salamanders (I think it was them, correct me if Im wrong), who sided with Dorn on opposing Guilliman's reformations.

Oh wait, Guilliman almost caused a second heresy when decided to impose a buncha new rules and regulations on all his brother Primarchs and their Legions-turned-Chapters. And technically, his side fired the first shot. What a dick. Say what you will about his reformations having saved the Imperium, but he sure had a lot of balls doing that when he was the one late to the party (Battle for Terra).

Gulliman a dick? I know people hate him, but this quite new to me. If not for Guilliman then an second Horus Heresy would have started as the Primarchs would have again started to turn against each other as their glorious leader, The Emperor, was seriously incapacitated. Guilliman was there to restore order to the whole system and without him, the Imperium of Mankind would be no more. And ask for Siege of Terra, Guilliman and his legion were tricked to other part of the Galaxy, and you wont get back from there really fast.

**TheAngrySquig**

Yeah, Guilliman was a huge dick. He showed up after the Emperor was dead and was like "Oh feth, better make up a set of rules for everyone."

**Soladrin**

iproxtaco wrote:
Dash2021 wrote:
Soladrin wrote:Approachable.. charismatic and diplomat? I think you've got Horus mixed up with Lorgar now.

No one liked Lorgar.

All the primarchs were decent orators and highly charismatic as well. They all got a bit of all of the Emperor's personality. But most have one trait that is exaggerated more than the rest. I believe in one of the first 3 HH books (can't remember, they kinda all blend together now) Horus states that Sang should have been Warmaster, but the Emperor chose Horus because his ambition matched his fathers.

Also, I think Lorgar mentions what he believes his trait from his father is in First Heretic, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. Faith/devotion/loyalty? Not sure, but something along those lines.

Conviction. Lorgar was completely and utterly convinced of his beliefs and goals. It radiated from him like a permanent aura. A fire burned in his eyes that showed how utterly unshakable he thought his faith was. Obviously, when the man he placed his faith told him everything he had done in the last 100 or so years was meaningless and that the was a failure, Lorgar lost that conviction until he found a new purpose.

I also completely disagree with the assumption that no one liked Lorgar. He was closest to Magnus, both were thinkers and philosophers, and also potent psykers. So far we've only had him communicate with the traitors on some level, and he managed to talk down an angry Russ, and seemed to get along with the others reasonably well, as well as siblings can. Lorgar was nothing if not a skilled orator and speaker, he could likely talk anyone into following him.

Lorgar only became a properly potent Psyker after he visited the Eye of Terror though.

**TheAngrySquig**

Didn't his relationship with Magnus become strained near the end though?

**iproxtaco**

Soladrin wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Dash2021 wrote:
Soladrin wrote:Approachable.. charismatic and diplomat? I think you've got Horus mixed up with Lorgar now.

No one liked Lorgar.

All the primarchs were decent orators and highly charismatic as well. They all got a bit of all of the Emperor's personality. But most have one trait that is exaggerated more than the rest. I believe in one of the first 3 HH books (can't remember, they kinda all blend together now) Horus states that Sang should have been Warmaster, but the Emperor chose Horus because his ambition matched his fathers.

Also, I think Lorgar mentions what he believes his trait from his father is in First Heretic, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. Faith/devotion/loyalty? Not sure, but something along those lines.

Conviction. Lorgar was completely and utterly convinced of his beliefs and goals. It radiated from him like a permanent aura. A fire burned in his eyes that showed how utterly unshakable he thought his faith was. Obviously, when the man he placed his faith told him everything he had done in the last 100 or so years was meaningless and that the was a failure, Lorgar lost that conviction until he found a new purpose.

I also completely disagree with the assumption that no one liked Lorgar. He was closest to Magnus, both were thinkers and philosophers, and also potent psykers. So far we've only had him communicate with the traitors on some level, and he managed to talk down an angry Russ, and seemed to get along with the others reasonably well, as well as siblings can. Lorgar was nothing if not a skilled orator and speaker, he could likely talk anyone into following him.

Lorgar only became a properly potent Psyker after he visited the Eye of Terror though.

True, but I didn't want to go on about that for another paragraph. He was always a potent psyker. His problem was that he lacked the training of Magnus, and actually feared his abilities, restraining himself until he was given true guidance and direction.

**Durza**

The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:
Ronin wrote:
TheAngrySquig wrote:He's also the one that almost caused a second heresy

You could say the same of the Space Wolves and the Salamanders (I think it was them, correct me if Im wrong), who sided with Dorn on opposing Guilliman's reformations.

Oh wait, Guilliman almost caused a second heresy when decided to impose a buncha new rules and regulations on all his brother Primarchs and their Legions-turned-Chapters. And technically, his side fired the first shot. What a dick. Say what you will about his reformations having saved the Imperium, but he sure had a lot of balls doing that when he was the one late to the party (Battle for Terra).

Gulliman a dick? I know people hate him, but this quite new to me. If not for Guilliman then an second Horus Heresy would have started as the Primarchs would have again started to turn against each other as their glorious leader, The Emperor, was seriously incapacitated. Guilliman was there to restore order to the whole system and without him, the Imperium of Mankind would be no more. And ask for Siege of Terra, Guilliman and his legion were tricked to other part of the Galaxy, and you wont get back from there really fast.

Guilliman alienated two legions just because they used different tactics to him. When they argued they were more effective, he pointed out that his legion had won more planets (particularly in the case of the AL). Saving the Imperium doesn't stop him being a dick.

**TheAngrySquig**

He was a dick, he saved thee Imperium, but was a dick. The only reason he had the most worlds was because he ate a legion.

**daveNYC**

Depends on what you mean by facet or aspect. For example, Magnus could be:

1) Psychic potential
2) Thirst for knowledge
3) Pride
4) Believe in the potential to better mankind

**TheAngrySquig**

Yeah, it's kind of a loose question

**The Son Of Russ**

TheAngrySquig wrote:Yeah my friend said it. I guess thats what I get for blindly agreeing with her because shes british

WOAH. Sort of close to the knuckle hey?
Anyways, I see why everyone is saying Guilliman saved the imperium. I think perhaps he shouldn't get the credit for everything though, as his ideas conflicted with almost all the other primarchs, causing them to feel great discomfort with the way the imperium was now being run, by the All-Guilliman. I believe this caused the primarchs to leave due to their discomfort such as Corax, Russ and Vulkan. If the legions were kept then perhaps there will still be primarchs leading their legions. But i honestly agree with the list put across by Durza as it simply makes sense.

**TheAngrySquig**

The Son Of Russ wrote:
TheAngrySquig wrote:Yeah my friend said it. I guess thats what I get for blindly agreeing with her because shes british

WOAH. Sort of close to the knuckle hey?

No not like that, its just that her arguments make sense because she presents them britishly

**The Son Of Russ**

Dont worry about it hehe

**iproxtaco**

Lion: The Lion wanted to lead, he believed himself to be rightful inheritor simply because his was the first Legion. Possibly the Emperor's arrogance or his desire to lead.

II: N/A

Fulgrim: Obviously the Pheoncian strives for perfection, he would embody the Emperor's own desire to better himself and others to obtain perfection.

Perturabo: Bitterness was what Perturabo was known for, but he was also a cold and tactile thinker that enjoyed seeing the downfall of his enemies when his plans worked. He would embody the Emperor's cold tactical mind that assessed situations in an almost robotic fashion.

Khan: A mix of Russ and perhaps Sanguinus. A savage warrior who was far more restrained than Russ was. Embodiment of the Emperor's wild untamed nature.

Russ: A feral beast, Russ was the inner bloodthirsty animal, the savage heart.

Dorn: Dorn was utterly loyal to the very end. He would inherit the Emperor's loyalty.

Kurze: The Emperor's strive for order and justice was not seen anywhere more prolific than in Curze. Perhaps also the side of the Emperor that knew He was different and ultimately alone.

Sanguinius: His charisma, people skills. Sanguinus was seen as a golden savior. Probably the Emperor's ability to inspire hope through leadership.

Manus: His strength and tamed fury. Ferrus was always said to have a look of contained power and rage in his eyes. Like Angron but in control. Also perhaps embodied perfection of a different form to Fulgrim, he realized his limitations.

XI: N/A

Angron: Martial prowess, honor. Angron was a lobotomized maniac but beneath that he was an honor-bound warrior.

Guilliman: Guilliman was the Emperor's desire to build rather than destroy. He wanted to create the Imperium, not conquer it.

Mortarion: His endurance, obviously, but also his drive to prove himself.

Magnus: The Crimson King obviously inherited the Emperor's immense psychic potential, but also embodied His quest to enlighten humanity through knowledge.

Horus: Ambition. No other had the right ambition to lead the entire Crusade.

Lorgar: Conviction. Already said it once, Lorgar was utterly convinced by what he preached, and simply radiated this like an aura. He also inherited the Emperor's ability to inspire those around Him.

Vulkan: If what has been said about the Salamanders is true, then Vulkan could only inherit the Emperor's humbleness and care for the average human. If not that, something along the lines of curiosity, morality, or a drive to create great works of metal and stone, the crafstmen.

Corax: Both bottom two vie for the same kind of places, deceit, stealth, isolation. Corax probably adopted the Emperor's ability to adapt.

Alpharius/Omegon: Undoubtedly the last Primarch inherited the Emperor's stealthy nature, a side that wanted to hide his plans from those around him.

**TheAngrySquig**

iproxtaco wrote:Lion: The Lion wanted to lead, he believed himself to be rightful inheritor simply because his was the first Legion. Possibly the Emperor's arrogance or his desire to lead.
II: N/A
Fulgrim: Obviously the Pheoncian strives for perfection, he would embody the Emperor's own desire to better himself and others to obtain perfection.
Perturabo: Bitterness was what Perturabo was known for, but he was also a cold and tactile thinker that enjoyed seeing the downfall of his enemies when his plans worked. He would embody the Emperor's cold tactical mind that assessed situations in an almost robotic fashion.
Khan: A mix of Russ and perhaps Sanguinus. A savage warrior who was far more restrained than Russ was. Embodiment of the Emperor's wild untamed nature.
Russ: A feral beast, Russ was the inner bloodthirsty animal, the savage heart.
Dorn: Dorn was utterly loyal to the very end. He would inherit the Emperor's loyalty.
Kurze: The Emperor's strive for order and justice was not seen anywhere more prolific than in Curze. Perhaps also the side of the Emperor that knew He was different and ultimately alone.
Sanguinius: His charisma, people skills. Sanguinus was seen as a golden savior. Probably the Emperor's ability to inspire hope.
Manus: His strength and tamed fury. Ferrus was always said to have a look of contained power and rage in his eyes. Like Angron but in control. Also perhaps embodied perfection of a different form to Fulgrim, he realized his limitations.
XI: N/A
Angron: Martial prowess, honor. Angron was a lobotomized maniac but beneath that he was an honor-bound warrior.
Guilliman: Guilliman was the Emperor's desire to build rather than destroy. He wanted to create the Imperium, not conquer it.
Mortarion: His endurance, obviously, but also his drive to prove himself.
Magnus: The Crimson King obviously inherited the Emperor's immense psychic potential, but also embodied His quest to enlighten humanity through knowledge.
Horus: Ambition. No other had the right ambition to lead the entire Crusade.
Lorgar: Conviction. Already said it once, Lorgar was utterly convinced by what he preached, and simply radiated this like an aura. He also inherited the Emperor's ability to inspire those around Him.
Vulkan: If what has been said about the Salamanders is true, then Vulkan could only inherit the Emperor's humbleness and care for the average human. If not that, something along the lines of curiosity, morality, or a drive to create great works of metal and stone, the crafstmen.
Corax: Both bottom two vie for the same kind of places, deceit, stealth, isolation. Corax probably adopted the Emperor's ability to adapt.
Alpharius/Omegon: Undoubtedly the last Primarch inherited the Emperor's stealthy nature, a side that wanted to hide his plans from those around him.

Mostly agree with this, but I don't know about Dorn as his loyalty.

**Castiel**

daveNYC wrote:Depends on what you mean by facet or aspect. For example, Magnus could be:
4) Believe in the potential to better mankind

This has always been in Sanguinius's remit. For Magnus it would be better to say he was the Emperor's belief in enlightening the common man.

**TechMarine1**

Durza wrote:Horus had a solar system under his control or something by the time the Emperor found him IIRC

So did Guilliman.

Also, IIRC, Vulkan was an outstanding craftsman (he's a blacksmith)

**Dark Apostle 666**

I'd say magnus was his thirst for knowledge and Horus was his ambition and will to dominate.

**TheAngrySquig**

Horus was also his weakness

**Sir Samuel Buca**

TechMarine1 wrote:
Durza wrote:Horus had a solar system under his control or something by the time the Emperor found him IIRC

So did Guilliman.

Guilliman had 8 systems under his control didn't he? Or was that just after daddy found him?

**TheAngrySquig**

Think that was after

**LoneLictor**

TheAngrySquig wrote:Horus was also his weakness

Weakness? Horus was the most charismatic, ambitious and overall intelligent Primarch. If he hadn't gotten sentimental at the end his forces would've obliterated Terra and the Emperor, conquering the Imperium. Besides, would the Emperor have named the Primarch that represented his weakness as Warmaster?

**BrainDeleted**

Horus didn't just throw a sissy fit about not being able to kill Big E himself...There was the small issue of the Dark Angels, the Space Wolves, and the Ultramarines rapidly approaching to lay him utterly to waste

**Pilau Rice**

This is explored a bit further in Prospero Burns where the Space Wolves portray themselves as the Executioners, which possibly came down directly from their Primarch.

I am not entirely sure if I believe that the Emperor truly had individual intentions for each of the Primarchs other than to be his generals. For awhile I believed that it was the outcome of their separation from the Emperor and their individual upbringings that gave them their personalities. From reading Deliverance Lost I am not so sure, but then from reading Aurelian Chaos definitely played a part in how they matured.

Found this list from the Black Library Bolthole that seems pretty accurate, it includes and adds to those included in Prospero Burns.

One to be His executioner - Leman Russ
One to be His praetorian - Rogal Dorn
One to guard the hearth - Roboute Guilliman
One to guard the far frontier - Perturabo
One to marshal the intelligence - Alpharius/Omegon
One to sow terror in his enemies - Konrad Curze
One to lead His armies - Horus Lupercal
One to be His heir - Sanguinius
One to watch the Empyrean - Magnus the Red
One to guard His people - Vulkan
One to forge His arms - Ferrus Manus
One to be His voice - Lorgar
One to be His inspiration - Fulgrim
One to be His champion - Angron
One to keep His laws - Corax
One to plan His conquests - Lion El'Jonson
One to guide His fleets - Jaghatai Khan
One to sit in judgment - Mortarion

Some of them I would maybe move about but most seem to fit

Another theory I had was that the Emperor knew that something was going to happen to his Primarchs and made two versions of the same thing. Say for his Praetorian Peturabo and Dorn, executioner Leman Russ and Angron, could explain why Alpharius was also split into two.