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LoneLictor wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:Horus was also his weakness

Weakness? Horus was the most charismatic, ambitious and overall intelligent Primarch. If he hadn't gotten sentimental at the end his forces would've obliterated Terra and the Emperor, conquering the Imperium. Besides, would the Emperor have named the Primarch that represented his weakness as Warmaster?

Not like that, he was weak because he allowed Erebus to tempt him. Weakness is the wrong word, its more like inner failings

Sir Samuel Buca wrote:

TechMarine1 wrote:

Durza wrote:Horus had a solar system under his control or something by the time the Emperor found him IIRC

So did Guilliman.

Guilliman had 8 systems under his control didn't he? Or was that just after daddy found him?

Guilliman had a single world when the Emperor found him. Dorn had found an ancient starship. Horus developed his society to the point where it could take over a system on his own.

And One to rule them all - The God-Emperor of Mankind

The split in two theory makes so much sense when you look at Chaos coming in to the picture down the road. Redundancy is one of the keys to a good fighting force.

^ Always struck me how the Primarchs seemed to match up together- Curze & Corax, Dorn & Perturabo (Sp. ?)

The redundancy theory is an interesting one...

There are a few that I don't really see a match for, unless you could pair antagonists (eg Guilliman-Alpharius?) together. And even then there's a few that don't match up.

I Think this is more a combination of their fathers aspect coupled with their mandate e.g (facet + Role) This is how i believe they were envisioned before they were scattered as babes across the Galaxy.

Lion = Paranoia + To be the pathfinder.
Fulgrim=Insecurity + To seek perfection for the Imperium.
Pertuabo=Logic + To break the sieges of the Imperium.
Khan= Fierceness + To Raid the enemies of the Imperium.
Russ= Ruthless + Executioner of the Imperium.
Dorn= Integrity + Defender of the Imperium.
Kurze= Independence + Enforcer of Imperial law.
Sanguinius= Nobility + To Inspire the Imperium.
Manus= Endurance + To Strive beyond the limits.
Angron= Fury + To Overwhelm the Enemy.
Guilliman= Organisation + To be the great statesman of the Imperium.
Mortarion= Fortitude + To be the Grim Reaper of the Imperium.
Magnus= Intelligence + To be the Tamer of the Warp.
Horus= Leadership + To be General of the Imperium.
Lorgar= Faith + To be the Keeper of the Imperial Truth.
Vulkan= Craftsmanship + To be the Forgemaster of the Imperium .
Corax= Wrath + To be the Angel of Death.
Alpharius/Omegon= Duplicity + To be the Intelligence Gathers of the Imperium.

Hmm Corax and Mortarion are almost interchangable.

I can't see the Emperor making people to embody paranoia and insecurity. It seems more like something they learned.

Paranoia isn't a bad thing, if you are in military clandestine ops or intelligence gathering. If you are Pathfinder, you want to find a way forward without the enemy finding you. Minimising risk, being paranoid about being followed, Lion'el was paranoid about the Terrans that he bought with his chapter form Caliban and never trusted any of them. Putting himself with terran units to keep an eye on them. He was very paranoid.

How could you drive towards Perfection if you knew 1, it is unobtainable 2, fundamentally perfection is imperfect as it is impossible. You need a deep seated insecurity to drive you forward. Not all supposedly bad charcter traits are bad, we just live in times which say it is bad. Selfishness is considered bad, but in nature it's look after number 1.

I don't get Manus, how was he ment to strive beyond limits?