New Necron Codex...What stats are Scarabs running now..

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**KingCracker**

Wow, and I was a big fan of scarabs before

Sheesh, I think if I played Crons, they would be my main stay unit. That is just vicious against armor

**Andilus Greatsword**

Tjolle79 wrote:Also, Every single S6 shot that goes into taking down the AT threat of scarabs are NOT used against the rest of the army.

So to you who immediately think "hey, they're easy to deal with, i just S6 spam them!" remember that those are vital S6 shots not used to blow up transports and target other things that after all are racing across the board to get to grips with you

No one uses S6 to take out Transports.

**jy2**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Tjolle79 wrote:Also, Every single S6 shot that goes into taking down the AT threat of scarabs are NOT used against the rest of the army.

So to you who immediately think "hey, they're easy to deal with, i just S6 spam them!" remember that those are vital S6 shots not used to blow up transports and target other things that after all are racing across the board to get to grips with you

No one uses S6 to take out Transports.

Unless, of course, they are DE raiders/ravagers or ork trukks.

**Tjolle79**

The way i see it:

S6 Flamer makes 3 hits.
He rolls to wound, rolling 1, 3 and 5 which means he's now scored 2 total wounds.

I then place 1 of those wounds each on 2 different scarabs because i can't put them both on the same models.

I then roll armour save for the 2 scarabs, and whichever i fail dies from instant-death.

Shooting - > score hits -> roll to wound -> target unit chooses which models are WOUNDED, in this case 2 different swarms, and rolls for their save. I fail both, meaning normally both swarms would take 1 wound each, but since its S6 both swarms die, losing the full 3 wounds instead of the 2 they'd lose from the Vulnerable to blasts USR.

**Andilus Greatsword**

I will probably play it so that it's 1 wound only. Wouldn't want to listen to my Necron opponents whine haha. GW is going to have to FAQ this pretty quick...

**jy2**

Tjolle79 wrote:The way i see it:

S6 Flamer makes 3 hits.
He rolls to wound, rolling 1, 3 and 5 which means he's now scored 2 total wounds.

I then place 1 of those wounds each on 2 different scarabs because i can't put them both on the same models.

You made a mistake here. Unless those scarabs were different (i.e. different stats or different wargear), in a multi-wound unit of homogeneous (same) models, wounds are used to remove whole models first. There is no allocation in this case.

I then roll armour save for the 2 scarabs, and whichever i fail dies from instant-death.

Here you have to apply both the rules for ID and VoB/T (Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates). It's not that one takes precedence before the other or vice versa, they both happen simultaneously. So the unsaved wound becomes 2 S6 wounds. 2W would then become 4 S6 wounds and so on. At the same time, the S6 ID's the scarab.

**Tjolle79**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Tjolle79 wrote:Also, Every single S6 shot that goes into taking down the AT threat of scarabs are NOT used against the rest of the army.

So to you who immediately think "hey, they're easy to deal with, i just S6 spam them!" remember that those are vital S6 shots not used to blow up transports and target other things that after all are racing across the board to get to grips with you

No one uses S6 to take out Transports.

Unless they're using Assault Cannons which are great at this, or outflanking scatterwalkers firing at rear AV10. Or targetting anything else with AV10.

The main thing about my post was the fact that you'd have to fire at the Scarabs over firing at something else, meaning if they die they'll still have to soak alot of shots. The actual target you'd otherwise shoot at is kinda irrelevant to the point i was making

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:
Tjolle79 wrote:The way i see it:

S6 Flamer makes 3 hits.
He rolls to wound, rolling 1, 3 and 5 which means he's now scored 2 total wounds.

I then place 1 of those wounds each on 2 different scarabs because i can't put them both on the same models.

You made a mistake here. Unless those scarabs were different (i.e. different stats or different wargear), in a multi-wound unit of homogeneous (same) models, wounds are used to remove whole models first. There is no allocation in this case.

I then roll armour save for the 2 scarabs, and whichever i fail dies from instant-death.

Here you have to apply both the rules for ID and VoB/T (Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates). It's not that one takes precedence before the other or vice versa, they both happen simultaneously. So the unsaved wound becomes 2 S6 wounds. 2W would then become 4 S6 wounds and so on. At the same time, the S6 ID's the scarab.

Crap, i missed the first part, since its all a single unit of models with the same exact equipment. I guess im too used playing GK Paladins with my TWC units

Now i follow your logic

**schadenfreude**

SOFDC wrote:
This may be more for YMDC, but wouldn't you double the wounds first? 1 S6 wound becomes 2 S6 wounds, then apply instant death? I could be wrong.

Also no armor and no cover saves for them from the incinerator.

In my understanding, this is correct in this case. IE: My land raider redeemer finds itself able to flame a scarab unit, hits three of the five. It would then take 6 ID wounds. Six bases go away.

Even Land Raider pattern tanks will lose their reliability if they get charged by Scarabs.

Skimmers, and vehicles moving 12 (Which a land raider will) will be hit only on 6s, and entropy only half of THOSE. Even accounting for the buckets of attacks a charging scarab swarm will get, it doesn't impress me very much. It's a nice handy thing to dump on IG stationary parking lots though.

Against dreads (Or even sentinels!), it just gets flat out hilarious. Even without a DCCW, the scarab bases are taking S6 on a 5+ save, and no retreat, and swinging last.

And this is competing with the other lovely things in the FA slot? Yeaaa....I don't think I will field these unless I just have nothing else in the armory/points filler.

Fast moving vehicles are not a problem for scarabs. Just pound the fast moving land raider with gauss or the assault4 haywire grenade launcher cryptecs can take. A single stun or imobolize=scarabs now auto hit every attack instead of hit on 6s.

**WanderingFox**

Even on 6s scarabs are going to womp it.

Unit of 10 scarabs is 50 attacks on a charge. That's ~8 attacks going through. That's 4 Entropic strikes making it through. That land raider is now less armored than a Rhino and sitting next to 10 scarab bases. Even if you managed to kill all 10 bases (entirely possible), the armor is down to 10, which is one off from letting even a lowly Gauss Flayer pen on a 6.

**Razerous**

If I'm reading this right, you can have units of Spyders 3 models strong, all differently equipped for wound allocation shenanigans. Madness. Maybe I'm wrong?

**WanderingFox**

Nope, entirely correct. Each spider in the unit can take any of the 3 wargear options. They are phrased "Any Canoptek Spyder may take..." and are pointed out per model. No additional restrictions are mentioned.

**junk**

There will definitely be a lot of spyder/swarm lists popping up in GTs as the proliferation of MSU Razorspam and MechInf has dominated the scene; which is going to, thankfully, shake up the meta a lot. Whether or not these lists are going to be game winning remains to be seen, there's a lot of army builds/configs that can be pulled out of the codex.

Night Fighting Scarab/Spyders are definitely going to be a tough army to counter.

**WanderingFox**

Too true. It's going to be hard to deal with 3 sets of 3 spyders tagging along behind 3 sets of 10 scarabs.

Hell first turn if you get lucky and roll well the enemy could be facing down 3 units of 13 scarabs... That's 65 entropic attacks on a charge O_o.

More than likely that won't happen till T2, and if you get lucky with night fighting and nothing dies, and manage to 2+ all the scarab hive rolls again, that's 3 units of 16 scarabs... That's an absolutely terrifying 80 attacks per unit of scarabs.

That's an amazing upper end to the potential of that list style. Will it happen often, very unlikely. Can it happen? Oh yes.

**Sasori**

You always make a Scarab when you roll for them with the Spyders. The only thing you roll for, is if you take a wound.

That's nearly a thousand points though, for just Scarabs and Tomb Spyders.

**WanderingFox**

Yes but if you trip 1 you'll eat the spyder and thus can't make more...

Also, thoroughly aware of how expensive it is. Wasn't suggesting that it would be used max'd out like that, just trying to illustrate what is theoretically possible. Even doing that with 3 units of scarabs and one central unit of spyders will be seriously scary.

**doubled**

Scarabs I see as being a toss up for best all around unit in the fast attack section. These guys are cheap for what they do, and hell they may be worth it for the pysch value alone.

**Sasori**

WanderingFox wrote:Yes but if you trip 1 you'll eat the spyder and thus can't make more...

Also, thoroughly aware of how expensive it is. Wasn't suggesting that it would be used max'd out like that, just trying to illustrate what is theoretically possible. Even doing that with 3 units of scarabs and one central unit of spyders will be seriously scary.

Where does it state it can't make more? All it says is it suffers a wound if it rolls a 1.

**WanderingFox**

Wow... That's me being stupid. Ignore me, still getting used to the changes and was thinking that Spyders were down to 1 wound for some strange reason.

You're entirely correct. Though that just makes the whole idea that much more durable

**Razerous**

Sasori wrote:You always make a Scarab when you roll for them with the Spyders. The only thing you roll for, is if you take a wound.

That's nearly a thousand points though, for just Scarabs and Tomb Spyders.

Add another 150pts worth & your close to spot on. But three triple squads is a bit heavy, even one triple spyder squad supporting a single swarm unit could prove to be quite nasty.

**Rbb**

Spyders can also take what are basically psychic hoods. Walking warriors behind spyders will be protected from psychic powers. Kitting out the spyders differently for wound shenanigins plus their high toughness and new 3+ save will make them pretty survivable. They can also repair the ghost arks that are replenishing your warriors. I'm gonna say night fighting scarab/spyder lists are the new hotness. Eat it mech.

**schadenfreude**

4 scarabs, 9 warriors, and a ghost ark v fast moving landraider.

Rapid fire from 9 warriors and a ghost ark should produce 3 glancing hits and thus a stun or imobilized. The same # of glancing hits can also be produced by a single cryptec with the assault 4 haywire weapon.

20 attacks from 4 scarabs go from hitting on 6s to autohits and the land raider goes down to av4 before eating 20 s3 hits that pen on a 2+.

**ColdSadHungry**

doubled wrote:and hell they may be worth it for the pysch value alone.

Yeah, just like the Vindicare. He may be hit or miss but your opponent has to devote some firepower to take him down just because of what he could possibly do. With the ability to take seemingly loads of scarabs, the psych value will be high.

**WanderingFox**

I just hope the new tomb spyder kit comes with scarab bases... I already have 50 something warriors, and that only got me like 14 scarab bases. I really don't need another 50+ warriors ;_;

**mwnciboo**

As the Original poster, I am seriously worried about Scarabs now. I mean how can I counter them? Massed Frag's! Looks like my Scout Bikers with Rapid fire Frag grenade launchers will need to be taken out of the cupboard and dusted down.

**headrattle**

WanderingFox wrote:I just hope the new tomb spyder kit comes with scarab bases... I already have 50 something warriors, and that only got me like 14 scarab bases. I really don't need another 50+ warriors ;_;

That is why I made them with three scarabs per base. 25% more scarabs. They had three wounds each so I consolidated. Seemed obvious to me.

**AdeptSister**

mwnciboo wrote:As the Original poster, I am seriously worried about Scarabs now. I mean how can I counter them? Massed Frag's! Looks like my Scout Bikers with Rapid fire Frag grenade launchers will need to be taken out of the cupboard and dusted down.

Pie Plates will be back in vogue...Heck the Thunderfire cannon will eat scarabs for breakfast.

**Archibald_ Buggerfingers**

My decision to run some Ass. cannon RB's now seems somewhat wiser.

**Ruan**

Flashman wrote:The one army against which they might br a bit rubbish is Tyranids... although a few MCs (Hive Tyrant?) might be annoyed at losing their armour save.

Heh. This happened in my game today. The Tyranids player was shaking his head laughing and swearing. Granted, the Scarab unit died soon afterwards, but he did not like the idea of losing that save.

If something is immobile, or hasn't move at all... Scarabs -will- eat it. Even if it hasn't, the fact that armor reduction occurs before rolling for pen is enough that there's still a good chance you'll end up wrecking it.

A full unit of 10 scarabs is probably going to be finding its' way into most of my lists, taking up one of my Fast Attack slots.

They can die fairly easy, as they are T3, and are vulnerable to blasts/templates, but they do a very good job at eating vehicles.

They're also very darn fast... 6" move, +d6" run, +12" charge let's them close in surprisingly fast with a tank.

**DarthDiggler**

Mech lists will just need to have an infantry screen available if they face scarabs. The infantry can get back into their transports if they don't face scarabs.

Interestingly Grey Knight mech might have all the tools to beat back scarabs. From str 6 psybacks to str 6 HtH units (hammerhand + might of titan), they should be able to get rid of them quickly.

IG have hellhounds which are str 6 and a template you can turn which means the hellhound could kill lots of them.

Marine thunderfire cannons will do tons of damage.

**Razerous**

Ruan wrote: Scarabs -will- eat it. Even if it hasn't, the fact that armor reduction occurs before rolling for pen is enough that there's still a good chance you'll end up wrecking it.

My God man, you genious! I didn't realise but your right. I've always been assuming you will get knocked down to 5 bases (from fielding a modest 7-8) by the time they reach a vehicle.. They would indeed eat it then get two pen's from the reduced armour value! I've got to email my friend necron player! Thanks