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Well, the management is truely British: What works in UK must work in the colonies as well. If it doesn't work, fire the manager and keep the business model.

It is a sad fact of life that Britain is rather less "British" now than it was in the '80's. By the determination of "gritty realism" anyhow.

Nowadays we have weaksauce "Occupy" protests, and summer riots in aid of a new TV. Back then we had the miners' strike, the Greenham Common wimmin and *proper* football hooliganism. We had punks, skins, mods, rockers, metalists. Now we just have kids with their pants hanging out the top of their jeans...

Rebellion's not what it used to be and consumerism has won. For the time being...

Pacific wrote:I think he meant in terms of their culture and design style, rather than every Japanese person to be amazing at hand-to-hand combat

For any of us who used to read 2000AD, Judge Dredd, and the dozens of other characters which are rather dark but with a hint of humour or satire at the centre, I would say the first few editions at least of 40k would be instantly recognisable. When you consider that loads of the original creators were fans of that comic, or even writers later on (Dan Abnett having written for the comic and in some graphic novels for 2000AD) it is even less of a surprise...

Yeah, that's exactly what I had in mind. It was the dark cynical humour and moral complexity that first appealed to me when 40k was introduced. It was such a completely different mindset from the (mostly) heroic sci-fi that was being produced after Star Wars and Star Trek. I had a hard time understanding Judge Dredd at first, because satire was new to me. I kept at it because of Brian Bolland's art, and slowly came to appreciate the subversive social commentary.

I feel that some of the current GW writers parody the early writings, without understanding the early work was intended as parody itself. That said, I do recognize that some of the current writing is of a much higher technical caliber, so I'm not entirely jaded. I just miss the pervasive nihilism that as a cure, the Imperium was more often worse than the disease.

Maybe I need to watch Brazil again to cheer myself up with the utter hopelessness of a blind, monolithic bureacracy doing what it does best, crushing the souls of the people it was created to serve.


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Osbad wrote:It is a sad fact of life that Britain is rather less "British" now than it was in the '80's. By the determination of "gritty realism" anyhow.

Nowadays we have weaksauce "Occupy" protests, and summer riots in aid of a new TV. Back then we had the miners' strike, the Greenham Common wimmin and *proper* football hooliganism. We had punks, skins, mods, rockers, metalists. Now we just have kids with their pants hanging out the top of their jeans...

Rebellion's not what it used to be and consumerism has won. For the time being...

Yeah, you've got a point. I returned to Britain this spring after 20 years, and was surprised at how much things have changed. I had fond memories of wandering around a deserted Warwick castle on my first trip, absorbing the dusty atmosphere. This time around, there were line-ups to see a video show of the dragon from the TV show Merlin in one of the towers. WTF.

And I'll take punks over chavs any day of the week.

Mastiff wrote: I had a hard time understanding Judge Dredd at first, because satire was new to me. I kept at it because of Brian Bolland's art, and slowly came to appreciate the subversive social commentary.

For myself it was Simon Bisley, no body can draw Dredd like Mr. Bisley.


As for Pacific, I agree with everything you said. I also agree with not having proper soccor Football hooligans anymore. We lost the Stanley Cup (hockey) finals here in Vancouver and we rioted...it was a pathetic riot, just a bunch of drunk fethers lighting stuff on fire... Someone need's to show the youngin's how to riot properly.

We did it properly back in '94 when we lost also, seems to be a trend here.

Kroothawk wrote:Well, the management is truely British: What works in UK must work in the colonies as well. If it doesn't work, fire the manager and keep the business model.

QFT. Very cocky and very arrogant in manner as far as corporate business policy being delivered.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Mastiff wrote: I had a hard time understanding Judge Dredd at first, because satire was new to me. I kept at it because of Brian Bolland's art, and slowly came to appreciate the subversive social commentary.

For myself it was Simon Bisley, no body can draw Dredd like Mr. Bisley.

Hunh, I didn't even know he drew JD. For me, Bisley will always be associated with Slaine first and foremost. He was the main reason I made my space wolves Scottish rather than Nordic.

http://simonbisleygallery.com/?bisley=home.image&picid=269




I think he just did a graphic novel for Judge Dredd. It had 5 or 6 stories in it and was freaking amazing. Especially 'Christmas in Mega-city One"


"It was the fat geek on the flying slead again, Send the meat wangon to Kringle Plaza". One of the best lines ever...anywhere.

Gotta love the Dredd....

I don't really think that GW could be classed as anything but British tbh, although it's lost a lot of it's 'Britishness' it's still carrying around that odd British humour and if you dig back into the RT era and the early days of WHFB and even the start of 2nd Ed, it's dark, gory and funny in equal measures.
Yes, it's a global company now, but back in the eighties it was a quintessentially British company. And that can never be removed from the fabric of the company. As much as the current top echelon guys want it to become some sort of characterless, faceless super company.....

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Gotta love the Dredd....

I don't really think that GW could be classed as anything but British tbh, although it's lost a lot of it's 'Britishness' it's still carrying around that odd British humour and if you dig back into the RT era and the early days of WHFB and even the start of 2nd Ed, it's dark, gory and funny in equal measures.
Yes, it's a global company now, but back in the eighties it was a quintessentially British company. And that can never be removed from the fabric of the company. As much as the current top echelon guys want it to become some sort of characterless, faceless super company.....

I guess this also brings up another point. The 40k story line hasn't changed overall that much. The spicifics have but not the over all theme. I don't want this to get into what was better fluff Rt/2nd ed or todays stuff, but did the change occur when the old guard ( Mr Chambers, Mr Thorpe, Jervis- I know he's still there..but that's not JJ that's some corperate shill or brain-slug inhabiting his body-) left and the new crop of game writers came in. Graham McNeil used to be a game developer then made writing his full time job. Same with Andy Hoare. Rick prietsly got canned...still don't know how that happend? Alliso C left also These guys seem to be the middle ground of GW game developers during the early to mid 2000's. Now we have 'fearless leader Mr Ward' as lead game developer and un-apologetic Space Marine lover.

I guess what I am trying to get at is, who's version of 40k did you like better and why. Was it the stories? Was it the writing? Remember even back in the early days there was alot of tripe kicking around.


Oh ya, Judge Dredd is the bomb. When I was a kid we had a local comic store and he had hundreds of 2000AD & Judge Dredd comics in the dime box. He cut me a bulk rate deal because I wanted them all. I like that pic so much it's replaced the origional Horus & Emperor B&W as my background pic.

There was indeed a lot of tripe kicking around. But for me, fluff wise, it's RT. The Slaan, Genestealer Cults (complete with awesome limo's) and the early incarnation of Tyranids (or Zoats) had a lot more character to them. That was mostly the work of Mr. Rick Priestly (mayherestinpiece)

If you get the chance to read the old RT rulebook then do so. It will give you a lot of pleasure and really give you some cool ideas regarding the current gen of 40k. It's also the most 'British' of the GW books IMO.


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Edit: I kind of missed the point there with that post huh? :


The general sea change occured when the GW big bosses realised that they were making some serious moolah...suddenly what the customer wanted was no longer important. What was important? Making moar moneys!!

This has, sadly filtered through to the GW that we know and love (?) today. The weak fluff, the overpriced mini's etc all occurred when the top dogs started to turn GW into the golden cash cow...and this coincided with the departures of Alessio, Jake, Gav and Rick.
If you do a little Google-Fu, you will find a really revealing interview with Rick Preistly on '40k Radio'. I think this will explain all....

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:There was indeed a lot of tripe kicking around. But for me, fluff wise, it's RT. The Slaan, Genestealer Cults (complete with awesome limo's) and the early incarnation of Tyranids (or Zoats) had a lot more character to them. That was mostly the work of Mr. Rick Priestly (mayherestinpiece)

If you get the chance to read the old RT rulebook then do so. It will give you a lot of pleasure and really give you some cool ideas regarding the current gen of 40k. It's also the most 'British' of the GW books IMO.

I know, I had it back in the day. I just hope Mr Priestly finally catches Abdul Goldburg one day....he always seems to show up to ruin your day.

Yes, GW/40K is still British.. but... it must avoid the temptation of vanila fluff.. the BIGGEST attraction for all fans world wide is that qurky British point of view.. nilist but slogging on none the less.
Dealing with Piss poor leadership at the kleptocratic level of government (same same in the civilised world) but painful to watch in Britian.(British Army in Afgan looked like the Canadian Army in the '70's ...my era)
The soldier will get the job done..inspite of the generals and hangers-on...Guant's Ghosts,imperial Guard,Commissar Kain rule!

It is patently obvious 40k is British, all the Smurf heroes and Servitors wear monocles.

Mastiff wrote:In the beginning, 40k was quintessentially British. There was the deep-set cynical humour of a generation that was born after the war and the rebuilding of a socialist country, a fear Thatcher was leading the country into fascism, and a cynical distrust of blind, uncaring bureacracy. It's the same mindset that birthed The Sex Pistols and the Clash, Alan Moore, Monty Python and Terry Gilliiam (American-born, but Brazil and Time Bandits could only be produced in England) and Red Dwarf. The WH fluff felt more subversive and steeped in nihilism and irony. Looking at the original company, Games Workshop was started by bikers, nerds and hippies. There were more than a few -A- tatoos and Harleys.

Socialist country? Adolf Thatcher?

I'm not sure what country you are talking about, your list reminds me of that Norwegian football commentator...

But hey! if it is true that Golgfag is pronounced Geoffrey in the Ogre language then yes maybe it does still have a connection to it's roots in rollies, halves of mild, German army Parkas and and signing on the purple on the weeks when you didn't get enough orders to get paid.

Mastiff wrote:In another topic someone asked "Would GW be improved if they were taken over by WotC?"
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/408811.page

It's an interesting question, and a big part of the discussion is whether one large corporation is better than another. But here's another little twist on the original question; How much of 40k is influenced by it's birthplace?

In the beginning, 40k was quintessentially British. There was the deep-set cynical humour of a generation that was born after the war and the rebuilding of a socialist country, a fear Thatcher was leading the country into fascism, and a cynical distrust of blind, uncaring bureacracy. It's the same mindset that birthed The Sex Pistols and the Clash, Alan Moore, Monty Python and Terry Gilliiam (American-born, but Brazil and Time Bandits could only be produced in England) and Red Dwarf. The WH fluff felt more subversive and steeped in nihilism and irony. Looking at the original company, Games Workshop was started by bikers, nerds and hippies. There were more than a few -A- tatoos and Harleys.

So I'm curious to hear especially from other old farts like me; do you still see Warhammer and 40k as British product, or has it been culturally sanitized to the point it is separate from the culture that originally created it? (how's that for adding personal bias to a question?)

I see what your saying.

In as much as using Dr Who and the definate changes that came about with the new inception, the same can be said for GW's games. Thats just an example, but the same can be said for the times of the late 70's early 80's.

Brit Sci Fi definatly had a harder edge to it, Take AD2000 for example.

You see the stuff these days, its relativly tame in comparison to the Heavy Metal Style of Sci Fi comics, games, and ideas.

Those days were a different game for a different audience. D and D is in the same boat.

Back then, you had to work for your worlds, no one gave them to you on a silver platter.


Damn kids, Get off of my lawn!

insaniak wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:Either way, we can all agree it's certainly not an Australian brand.

I don't know... Look at 40K: Everyone's all spread out and isolated, the Imperium is racist and xenophobic, the people running the show have no real clue what's going on out there in the real Universe, and they're all slowly being over-run by aliens.

They might a well have called it 'Australia 40000'...

BANG, oh yes he went there, and he went there very well indeed, that made me belly laugh

Yep, HE went there.

Take note:
Any of you limeys, canuckistanis or yankees try it and we'd have yer bollocks for breaky - and don't even dream of trying it, you silver-fern-ers; we still haven't forgiven you lot for teaching the wallabies how to lose like professionals.

Only an Aussie can take the piss about the country and get away with it.

Management/HQ is British and the Codex's to a lesser extent use some English-English from time to time. Otherwise there isn't much British about it.

@Harriticus - they remove the u's from words like colour and armour in the US versions to avoid confusion. They're a British company, the background's full of Britishisms and little cultural in-jokes.

johnnyrumour wrote:@Harriticus - they remove the u's from words like colour and armour in the US versions to avoid confusion.

It makes me sad that they feel they have to do that, and that they have to do that.

johnnyrumour wrote:They're a British company, the background's full of Britishisms and little cultural in-jokes.

I agree, it is just that they have more of an eye towards writing for a larger crowd and are less influenced by 80's British comics and sci-fi and the like, since, you know, times change and the people writing it now are bringing their own cultural baggage to it. I'm sure in 20 years there will be complaints that there aren't enough Spaced references either, or some equivalent.