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I'm fine with it unless it is in a tournament.

Its ok to play with unpainted models as long as you are actively painting something. However, if it is your primary army and you dont do anything to get it painted, weeks, months, years drag on and your still fielding grey legion. Thats lame. Just get off your ass and buy a can of colored primer. spray, spend an hour picking out some details. You and your opponents will feel better about it.

My attitude is that if you place a figure in front of me that is not fully painted and based, you dishonour me and I shall kill you where you stand.

Painting isn't something done solely for the enjoyment of the owner, it's also a necessary for the opponent.

There is a WYSIWYG functional purpose to it, beyond the merit of the artistic virtue, to tell squads apart and identify separate units.

Painting is a core part of the hobby, just like army construction, the core rules, the use of miniatures and the use of dice, it can not be simply divorced as a separate optional piece.

From the other thread:

Augustus wrote:How many battle reports in white dwarf are done with unpainted figures? How many images of new GW product come with just images of the bare metal models? How many examples in the rulebook show bare metal or plastic figures? None.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

The last time it was controversial, and a little heated. Some posters vehemently defending painting as optional, under a vague strawman guise of tolerance for several pages, and later exposed as defending their own viewpoint instead (because they liked to play in public unpainted and demand the same respect) when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

Augustus wrote:Painting isn't something done solely for the enjoyment of the owner, it's also a necessary for the opponent.

There is a WYSIWYG functional purpose to it, beyond the merit of the artistic virtue, to tell squads apart and identify separate units.

Painting is a core part of the hobby, just like army construction, the core rules, the use of miniatures and the use of dice, it can not be simply divorced as a separate optional piece.

From the other thread:

Augustus wrote:How many battle reports in white dwarf are done with unpainted figures? How many images of new GW product come with just images of the bare metal models? How many examples in the rulebook show bare metal or plastic figures? None.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

The last time it was controversial, and a little heated. Some posters vehemently defending painting as optional, under a vague strawman guise of tolerance for several pages, and later exposed as defending their own viewpoint instead (because they liked to play in public unpainted and demand the same respect) when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

I don't mind unpainted armies. Go on, check my gallery.

I do, check mine.

I prefer to only play my own models which are 100% painted and based. One of the reasons that I have only ever played with my CSM, as they are the only army I have that is painted up to about 3000 points*

I would also prefer to play fully painted armies, but would not object to a game with unpainted stuff.





*Check out MY gallery!

I did, they are well done!

Augustus wrote:when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

Sweet zombie Jesus!!!

Someone actually had unpainted miniatures in their gallery?

I sure hope that they got told.


How those people could possibly live with themselves, I have no idea. They must hate puppies.

Augustus wrote:I do, check mine.

Shoe brush!

I still remember.

It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

Yeah but, but, but, they're not the same guys if he kitbashed and converted them all, right? He sat there, sitting still, doing the converting and the kitbashing, right? Why not just persevere and go the extra length to paint them all?
Sorry, I only just wish to properly understand.

I only play with painted models but to me fielding a fully painted army is awesome. I love seeing all my troops lined up ready for battle. I love the modeling side of this hobby so having fully painted armies are a must for me.

I'll play somebody who doesn't have a painted army no problems all I ask is it's fully wysiwyg. I ask for wysiwyg just because I need to know what unit it what and equipped with what.

I find sparse boards and uninspired terrain far more annoying then unpainted models.

What is even more annoying are the guys that demand painetd models but play on barren, boring tables with horrible mismatched terrain...

Ronin wrote:

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

Yeah but, but, but, they're not the same guys if he kitbashed and converted them all, right? He sat there, sitting still, doing the converting and the kitbashing, right? Why not just persevere and go the extra length to paint them all?
Sorry, I only just wish to properly understand.

I get the same feeling, actually. One thing I prefer about painting Warmachine
over 40k is that I DON'T have to paint 40 of the same models if I don't want
to. There is variety between many of the models.

Converting and painting seem to be separate skillsets as well. Some enjoy
one without enjoying the other. I love painting, but hate converting. I imagine
he's the other way around.

biccat wrote:

Augustus wrote:when their gallery was filled with unpainted images.

Sweet zombie Jesus!!!

Someone actually had unpainted miniatures in their gallery?

I sure hope that they got told.

Spoiler:

How those people could possibly live with themselves, I have no idea. They must hate puppies.

I was the one with the unpainted minis in my gallery. How dare I post pictures of unpainted figures that I was selling in the swap shop at the time. Augustus really got me on that one. You should go back and read the last thread. He made a real fool of himself when he pulled his "ah-ha" moment on me over those unpainted eldar figures.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

I actually find this last bit refreshing. It should be stated more often that there are enough types of gamers to go around. Folks don't need to sacrifice their preferred game experience and it shouldn't be a crime to say "I prefer to only play against painted armies" or "if you don't like my unpainted armies move along".

CT GAMER wrote:I find sparse boards and uninspired terrain far more annoying then unpainted models.

What is even more annoying are the guys that demand painetd models but play on barren, boring tables with horrible mismatched terrain...

I find them equally abhorrent. Whenever possible I make provision for a good thematic battlefield and plenty of terrain.
Since we're all swapping pics now, here's the kind of battles I enjoy. Painted minis, Great terrain and (most importantly) a great time with good friends. Winning is nice too, but it's very low priority.

AAR and more pics here:
http://rpgdiehard.blogspot.com/2011/08/wastelands-meltdown-post-apocalyptic.html

Im sorry, I just cant agree with some on here. I HATE unpainted armies. I dont mind half painted armies being played with while the person is in the process of painting it, or if they purchased a new unit and are trying it out with their painted army.... but our HOBBY is just that...a HOBBY, consisting of modeling, painting and gaming. All 3 make up the HOBBY. If you want to play a GAME, go play checkers. In addition I like when tournaments require painting for two reasons. One it adds something to the game to see two painted armies battling it out. The other is that it prevents the power gamers and net listers from simply going out and buying the latest greatest auto-win list to show up with. I peronsally will not play against people who just outright refuse to paint their models. And NO, spray painting an entire army including vehicles with metallic gold auto paint is not painting them....even if you are trying to justify it by calling them the "Bling Marine" chapter (yes thats a true story)

I have a simple principle.

I do not expect you to paint all your models, because life happens. I'm a full time college student, with a full time job. Your plastic is your plastic. I think it's foolish for people to deny you a game simply because you lack the time, motivation, or desire to paint, as it makes you seem like an uncouth "elitist".

We all pay money, invest our time, and make the effort to go to game stores; I myself drive at least an hour and a half to catch games.

Unpainted models are lame. Acceptable in most cases, but always lame.

I fit into that "I paint halfway decently, but still manage not to do it" crowd. I love painted miniatures, and I actually enjoy the act of painting them. But for some reason when I sit down to paint, it doesn't really happen unless something in particular inspires me. Speaking of inspiration, I'm sitting here staring at this Wrong Eye miniature as if it will make the primer dry faster...

I prefer to play with fully painted models.

Unfortunately my only mostly painted army has just been sold, so i've got some SERIOUS painting to do

My orks have about 1% painted ( I have a LOT of orks).

My Daemons are newly acquired and mostly unpainted

My Dark Eldar are entirely unpainted, as I'm still trying to decide on a scheme. Once i do they'll be getting painted


As to the other guy's models. Unpainted is ok. I'll not sneer at you, as I'd be a hypocrite if i did.

I'd rather unpainted to badly painted (i've seen some really bad ones) but a well painted army across the table is a rare and wonderful thing that makes me feel priviledged to play against it.

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

malfred wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:It's simple for me really. I love to build, kitbash, and convert the models and then play the game with them. However, I usually can't remain sitting still long enough to paint units. I'm not a bad painter by any means, but I don't have the patience to paint multiples of the same guys over and over. My single models/monsters look pretty good if I may say so myself.

You don't like it, move on so I can find someone else to play with.

In all fairness though, the thing I dont understand is why or how someone could go through the effort to make wonderful kitbashes and conversions, but then not realise its full potential by giving it a paintjob? Im just curious.

He says he can't remain sitting still to paint multiples of the same guys. It's
repetitive and boring to him.

Yeah but, but, but, they're not the same guys if he kitbashed and converted them all, right? He sat there, sitting still, doing the converting and the kitbashing, right? Why not just persevere and go the extra length to paint them all?
Sorry, I only just wish to properly understand.

I get the same feeling, actually. One thing I prefer about painting Warmachine
over 40k is that I DON'T have to paint 40 of the same models if I don't want
to. There is variety between many of the models.

Converting and painting seem to be separate skillsets as well. Some enjoy
one without enjoying the other. I love painting, but hate converting. I imagine
he's the other way around.

The kitbashed and converted stuff is the stuff that usually ends up painted. I like cutting up pieces and using other bits from the norm. Done right, they don't need to be painted to look cool. I find it hard to concentrate on a model when in the back of my mind I know there are 100+ of the same one waiting(Looking at you, WotR Goblins!). I'm trying to get them painted though.

The point is, I love certain aspects of the hobby, but painting is not one of them. Why should I be shunned for that? Or, better yet, why am I only accepted if I quickly slap a terrible paint job on them instead of going about it in my own way?

EDIT: Ugh I'm apparently to tired to type what my brain is trying to think.

quickfuze wrote:And NO, spray painting an entire army including vehicles with metallic gold auto paint is not painting them....even if you are trying to justify it by calling them the "Bling Marine" chapter (yes thats a true story)

I see some conflicting opinions in here. One guy says "Do whatever it takes to field a fully-painted army, even if you have to spraypaint them and pick out details." And then you come along and loudly proclaim that no, even that isn't good enough, they have to look amazing.

So which is it?

Las wrote:Unpainted models are lame. Acceptable in most cases, but always lame.

This whole hobby in general is widely considered to be pretty lame, so I personally think it's a waste of time arguing amongst ourselves about who is "lamer".

I think an oppenent should, if possible, put a painted army on the table. If, for example, he has just bought the army, its not a problem, as some people simply do not have the time to paint there army. I agree with the above comment. Some people should really lose the elitist attitude, it ruins the fun of gaming.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:The kitbashed and converted stuff is the stuff that usually ends up painted. I like cutting up pieces and using other bits from the norm. Done right, they don't need to be painted to look cool. I find it hard to concentrate on a model when in the back of my mind I know there are 100+ of the same one waiting(Looking at you, WotR Goblins!). I'm trying to get them painted though.

The point is, I love certain aspects of the hobby, but painting is not one of them. Why should I be shunned for that? Or, better yet, why am I only accepted if I quickly slap a terrible paint job on them instead of going about it in my own way?

EDIT: Ugh I'm apparently to tired to type what my brain is trying to think.

Im not shunning or admonishing anyone if they prefer certain parts of the hobby to others, even if its just converting over painting. I was just simply asking for the sake of understanding, because I do not understand the mentality of going through awesome conversion work, and then just let it stay as a metal/plastic/resin/converted bit figure, when it seems to me that giving it a paintjob would make it more awesome (and also bring out the details of your conversion work).

I ask only cause Im more of a painter, but I do like the occasional kitbash/conversion. But for me, that conversion work has no meaning unless I paint it as well. But like I said, not shunning anyone here, as Ill be happy to play a game. Just that if you plonk down a figure that's had some cool conversion work done, and you dont intend to paint it, it will make me want to paint the thing for you.

Norn King wrote:I think an oppenent should, if possible, put a painted army on the table. If, for example, he has just bought the army, its not a problem, as some people simply do not have the time to paint there army. I agree with the above comment. Some people should really lose the elitist attitude, it ruins the fun of gaming.

Being unable to distinguish which squad is which because they all look the same and have no markings and not being able to distinguish wargear quickly and easily because all I see is unclear greys instead of painted models with distinguished weapons ruins the fun of gaming to me.

Burdening your opponent with things that make the game harder to play is gamesmanship. In casual play, ask permission... Keep your unfair burdens out of competitive play. Appearance issues directly harm 'ard boys ability to be considered a valid fair competition and many people have reported issues where the game broke down due to unpainted models.

Don't pretend it is never a burden and has zero impact as that is untrue. At least you can do is give your opponent a chance to opt out of a legitimately degraded gaming experience which they may not enjoy without taking it personally or calling them names. Just find some like-minded gamers who don't mind the impact and you will be fine.

If it ain't painted I don't use it.