Whats your opinion on playing with un-painted models?

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**Battleworthy Arts**

As a miniatures painting service, I am obliged to say that all models should be painted!

Seriously though, yes, the minis should be painted. At least efforts made to that end, whether utilizing a service or doing it yourself, at least showing a little bit of progress as you go along is always a good thing.

**Amphsix**

quickfuze wrote:I mean primer, spray can base, dry-brush and a couple details and there you go...all done. Call me an elitest if you wish....

Some people want to take their time painting these overpriced pieces of plastic nicely. But do they really have to wait playing the game till their entire army is done?
Ok, so maybe they can play with only those models they have painted...

But then again, this puts a whole load of pressure onto people who are new to the hobby, if they read stuff like that, they might feel like they're forced to paint, something they might have enjoyed in the first place, but is now turned into a chore.

I really enjoy painting, and I want to do more than just slap paint on them. The end result will look a lot better, resulting in more enjoyable games in the end.

A bit of patience is what people need...

**Mr Morden**

Tomb King wrote:Plus I am worried about ruining some of my models with a bad paint job. Its discouraging to spend a lot of time on a model and then look at it and think... that sucks

I def feel your pain there - I have wasted too many hours and hundreds of pounds on paint and figures this way....... I love converting and making up figures.

I find it far more economic to pay someone with some actual ability to paint them ...........

**KSpen**

If youre playing over 2k games regulary, or when you do play, have got a competetive list before you, look at models like they are 'stats', then you have time to paint.

**obsidianaura**

It doesn't take long to paint stuff really. I think the trouble may be learning the techniques. Once you know them you can churn out armies fairly rapidly.

I'm doing my project of 2000 points of DE painted in 20 days and I’m on track to do it in 15 if all goes well.

I'm out at work 8am to 6pm on weekdays. I live with my girlfriend and that probably makes life easier but theres household stuff to do. In the end there's always enough time for hobbying if you make the time.

I get about 2/3 hours of painting time available each night (except Tuesdays as that’s gaming night or Friday night as I prefer to relax with my GF then) weekends are usually good for getting stuff done, she knits I paint.

If you're worried about dropping the value of your stuff you can always strip it with rubbing alcohol.

It's not as time consuming as you'd think.

At my LGS (4TK) everyone has a painted army. Most people have more than 1 army so occasionally you do see some grey stuff on the tables but you know that in a few weeks it will have progressed towards being fully painted.

I have tons of unpainted stuff to do but i don't usually play it unless testing it out.

Anyway in the end it shouldn't take more than a couple of evenings to get a squad painted to a table top standard.

**Augustus**

Amphsix wrote:But then again, this puts a whole load of pressure onto people who are new to the hobby,...

A bit of patience is what people need...

Fair enough, that seems legitimate, for new people.

**The Dwarf Wolf**

I dont have players around, so i could not choose much in that matter. The only ocasion when i can play, is against a bunch of players who live far away from me, who have very diferent views of what is a good army.

I would like to see all armies painted, and im trying to paint my miniatures to be painted into the majority (starting my first real army right now, DE), i want to reach the point when i will have the option to field only painted miniatures, but i would never mistreat someone because his tottaly grey army (i dont know what he like in hobby, or why he dont paint his minis, maybe he even like his miniatures grey!!!)

What i really dont accept is the "half this, half that" armies, those ones who look like the guys had just bought bunchs of used marines on ebay and striped (or not even that) the paint from the minis. They look bad and dirty.

**Zedrenael**

I do not like playing with completely unpainted model. I do not mind playing with unfinished paint on models. I just do not like seeing just gray on the table.

**Bat Manuel**

I used to hate playing with unpainted minis, but since my armies have changed so much due to power creep and what not, I've just stopped caring so I'll play with whatever I feel like using. Painted or not.

**Adam LongWalker**

quickfuze wrote:I just have to point out that there is a reocurring statement from some in this thread. They say they shouldnt be shunned from the game because they dont have time to paint. I will stick by my guns here, this is not a game....its a hobby. If you want to play a game, Call of Duty 3 is coming out I heard, or there is this game called World of Warcraft that people seem to devote an almost cult like following to... If you want to be part of THIS community then at least make an effort to make the game enjoyable for all involved. A painted army is as much for the enjoyment of your opponent as it is for your own gratifaction. No one is saying that you have to paint it to GD standards in a single weekend....but when you are still throwing around your 3rd edition orks in that tackle box and they still have zip for paint on them...thats not a case of no time...thats a case of just plain lazy. I mean primer, spray can base, dry-brush and a couple details and there you go...all done. Call me an elitest if you wish....

I work 12-14 hours a day for the Army, go to shool in the evening several nights a week, still have to provide quality time to the wife (by far the most painful of these time requirements ), work on my motorcycles, deal with my 16 year old daughters "OMG the world is ending because of Blah blah blah", and still find time to pump out 3 40K armies, 5 WHFB armies and just about every pig and goblin unit from the Malifaux line. No they are not all completely painted, but I continue to work towards that goal. To just say "F" it, I am not painting this stuff, means I no longer want to participate in the "Hobby". Oh and in addition I also just got bit by the Apoc bug and some of you have seen my recent Plague Tower and Hell Talon projects.

Elitism works both ways.

To me are 100% right about separating the "game" from the "hobby"

Those who are in the game are on a different level field of playing. They play in their small sphere if influence with their lists. Perhaps they can win a few local tourneys as well that does not care about painted models. Gamers. That is a good classification for them.

What I get annoyed about is when some of those "gamers" starts to state that they are on equal footing as the Hobbyist and I know they are not because they are totally different aspects of War gaming.

Those who are in the hobby generally try to paint their models. The key word is "try". The hobby to me consists of all aspects of modeling for Miniature War gaming. Painting, converting, gaming. That is where the designation of Hobbyist comes in. Hobbyists generally have a larger sphere of influence and generally can go if they want into any of the bigger tournaments "if they wish to do so" with little problems, because their army is fully painted.

As I have made on my last post, painting is subjective. There is no true way of judging what is good or what is not in painting skills. At least that is the view I take since the rouge trader days. There is always time to paint even it if is one or two models a month. I always try to help those gamers that want to go to where the next level (IMHO that is) in their skills.

Do I play with people with grey armies? Depends on the attitude of the player in question. The same goes with a person with a painted one.

Regardless, it is always nicer and so much easier to see what units are in my opponents painted army than in a grey one.

**zilegil**

My only rules are: paint like hell night and day; although even then with my more elite armies like my Cryx I take years doing them up and field primed minis; no grey or silvery whites.

I'm fine with other people using grey minis, if they don't have there arms inside cardboard boxes. Or if they are a cardboard box, boxy brown stormraven, anyone?

**BlapBlapBlap**

I think it's good if, say, it's a newcomer who has just got AoBR. If it continues for a few years without a single painted model, I start to think the guy who owns them is just lazy.
That said, undercoated and badly painted armies are a pet peeve. If a model is just black, how am I going to see how the model looks? And a badly painted army just makes the entire game look garbage. Even your army.
I played a Ravenwing Battleforce + Chaplain that I assembled and painted in a week, and most of the armies I played with were covered in horrible splodgy paint jobs. Bikes missing bikers and massive eyes all made my half-decent Battleforce look bad.
As long as the models are made, I'm normally fine.

**kirsanth**

I do not like using models of mine that are unpainted - it is causing me issues with my Tomb Kings since I cannot decide on a scheme and I am an atrocious painter that does not enjoy doing it. They are entirely unpainted so far and it is haunting me. ><

If I have a choice of two opponents I will play the one with a painted army more often than not.

Even so, I would not refuse a game because of paint, or lack thereof - and I still practice with my Tomb Kings.

**curran12**

It is all dependent on the context.

Friendly game? I don't care, I'm there for the friendly game.

For a tournament? Yes, the models should be painted.

I have nerve damage in my dominant arm, so I have to rely on painting services, which are generally a large-ish time investment, so I do use unpainted models when testing stuff out. Do I take them to events or more formal games? No, but then again, that's back to context.

**Ascalam**

I empathise on the nerve damage front.

My hands are both damaged, and they get tremors sometimes..

This makes painting slow, annoying as hell (especially detail work), and after a time painful.

I still paint, as it helps me retrain/control my hands, but it's a pretty trying process. I should be done painting my orks by the time retirement rolls around...

I use a lot of unpainted stuff, because otherwise i'd never get to play, but i do aspire to getting them all painted before the end of the world (or not, if the Mayans were right

)...

**theQuanz**

I used to hate it, and like a snobby GW loyalist douche stuck my nose up to it and refused to play.
Now though...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care. I have stuff that isn't painted yet...I want to play right now, and will paint it when I am not playing.
If I know the person is working on it then it's all good.

**Augustus**

theQuanz wrote:...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care.

Well from my experience that's the crowd that REALLY doesn't care at all about it, even in events and tourneys, you'll be in comfortable company.

**Forgotmytea**

I like to try and use painted models wherever possible, but the trouble is I go through various 'phases', I suppose, of painting. So for a week my undercoated but otherwise unpainted Epic Eldar might be untouched simply because I feel more like painting Thousand Sons, so despite having all 2000pts of my Thousand Sons painted I'll start digging out old models / converting others / buying new ones off eBay to paint instead*.

That said, I do definitely prefer playing with painted models, but have no problem playing with / against unpainted models. Ideally though they'll progress towards painted

*Having said that I'm now on an Epic painting spree, and have typically just run out of black spray paint!

**Grot 6**

ParatrooperSimon wrote:I'm pretty sure this has probaley come up on numerous ocations. But I'd thought I would ask

The question is in the title

It is a great excuse for a painting demonstartion, or class.

**LazzurusMan**

I have been able to increase my painting skills in leaps and bounds, but I still do, and always will play with unpainted models.

Say I have the models but want to test out a list before I decide exactly which of my models need to be painted now rather than in a few weeks time, I will have to use unpainted models to see if they are worth painting first.

Also i like to take my time painting my armies, and tbh I have never use a fully painted army that I myself own :/

**Eilif**

Augustus wrote:
theQuanz wrote:...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care.
Well from my experience that's the crowd that REALLY doesn't care at all about it, even in events and tourneys, you'll be in comfortable company.

Unfortunately that's been my experience at my FLGS also. If you like playing against painted armies WM/Hordes is just about the worst choice you can make in terms of the emphasis/importance that the game community places on painting.

Of course the percent of 40k and WHFB painted armies at the FLGS is nothing to get excited about either.

At my FLGS the breakdown seems to be:
GW games 30-50 % painted
PP Games 10-30% painted

Admittedly, I'm only at the FLGS once very two weeks, but this is my observation after over a year of regular bi-weekly club meetings. By contrast, since we've started our gaming club, we've yet to put a single unpainted fig on the table in 18 months of bi-weekly gaming!

**Aerethan**

I play the game mainly to paint the models. I paint far more than I play as well.

I don't mind playing an opponent who is in the process of painting and has something new painted each week or so to show progress. And at the very least the army should be primed.

If one makes no effort to get their army painted then they are likely to have no respect for their models, which means no respect for my models.(note I said likely)

Models aren't cheap, and if I'm spending the money on them to begin with then I'd like to see them painted up nicely.

And if you personally can't paint for whatever reason, look into either having a friend do it or getting commission work done. Take pride in your investment.

**Forgotmytea**

Eilif wrote:
Augustus wrote:
theQuanz wrote:...I want to get into Warmachine/Hordes, and don't really care.
Well from my experience that's the crowd that REALLY doesn't care at all about it, even in events and tourneys, you'll be in comfortable company.

Unfortunately that's been my experience at my FLGS also. If you like playing against painted armies WM/Hordes is just about the worst choice you can make in terms of the emphasis/importance that the game community places on painting.

Of course the percent of 40k and WHFB painted armies at the FLGS is nothing to get excited about either.

At my FLGS the breakdown seems to be:
GW games 30-50 % painted
PP Games 10-30% painted

Admittedly, I'm only at the FLGS once very two weeks, but this is my observation after over a year of regular bi-weekly club meetings. By contrast, since we've started our gaming club, we've yet to put a single unpainted fig on the table in 18 months of bi-weekly gaming!

I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

**Eilif**

Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

**DarkStarSabre**

I paint slowly. I want to make sure things are painted well. It annoys me to have unfinished things on the table because someone demanded it all be painted - simply because all those Chapter and Squad markings, shields, banners etc do not deserve to be rushed! To some degree I'd rather field WIP or unpainted models than have rushed something that I'll only have to come back to later.

**templarsandorks?**

While i will play against and with unpainted models I would much prefer to have it painted. I only really play unpainted stuff if i just got it and are desperate to try it out.

**Augustus**

Eilif wrote:
Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

Well said all round and well done!

PP stuff is really spectacular! So much great material! Huzah to you both!

**malfred**

Eilif wrote:
Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.

I'm there Tuesday nights.

I only ever play painted.

**Forgotmytea**

Augustus wrote:
Eilif wrote:
Forgotmytea wrote:I must be the exception that proves the rule in that case! I tend to paint Warmachine models as soon as I get them, as do nearly all my regular opponents

Well done sir! The WM models I see on the tables are so well detailed and sculpted that it seems a shame that they're not usually painted. Whenever I see someone with a painted WM army I always make a point of stopping by to see it up close.
Well said all round and well done!

PP stuff is really spectacular! So much great material! Huzah to you both!

Thank you! To be honest, the models were a large part of what inspired me to play it in the first place

**Amphsix**

The models of WM really are awesome. I might start it at some point in the future.. when a.: I have money, and b.: I have someone to play with.... and currently that would be no-one.