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The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:I like the rules but the Reanimation protocol seems too out of place IMHO. Pariahs are humans that have been modified to serve the necrons. They are still technically living and thus are unable to repair damage like other necrons. FNP would suit them better since it could be cancelled, but would make them more impervious to small arms fire.

Crap you are right. I understood the origin of the pariahs all wrong.

I'll go make them constructs now, like what that guy suggested.

FNP would be interesting, but I think its out of place on a robot imo. I mean, aren't they already incapable of feeling pain?

Hummm.. nice idea.

May I suggest? Focus on what makes them different. Let them be W1, weak, vulnerable, awfully expensive, even A1… but give them some Ld – related funny stuff. Do not let them compete against Lychguards or Pretorians.

Just some random ideas:
1) “The Outcasts”: Any unit charging them (being charged by them?) must pass a Ld (-1?) test.
2) “Bane of the Warp”: Any unit trying to cast a psy power near them must throw an extra dice for POTW. Better: they are unable to cast a psy power.
3) “You are Alone”: Any unit doing a Ld – test must use its own Ld (hi nids!), and can not get bonuses from gear or other units.
4) Something hurting daemons. I know daemons are already suffering but, well, it is the fluff. Pariahs were created to hurt the Warp. No inv save perhaps?
5) What about a reworded “blessing of the blood god” (daemon or CSM version) against psykers?

What about an Alpha-Pariah, a HQ allowing them to be troops? Something about an experiment that went wrong in a Severed World, a hideous thing despised by the Necron Dinasties… searching the humans, trying to harvest more of his kin…

Extra stuff:
Why the 2 wounds? Why the inv save?
I don’t see them as Crypteks. The result of an experiment yes, but not the one doing the experiment.
Keep them expensive, please.

da001 wrote:
3) “You are Alone”: Any unit doing a Ld – test must use its own Ld (hi nids!), and can not get bonuses from gear or other units.

Hi da001! Nice try! Synapse means they ignore IB completely, and maeks them fearless. That means there is notest. They auto pass Morale and pinning tests. Nice Try though!

Hi Deadshot!

Yeah you are right. I was trying to word it like: "no Synapse" ( or anything giving you extra-Ld), but I am not sure how.

They cut you from any "connection to the warp" (including "connection through the warp"). High priority target if you are using the warp (daemons, psykers, Synapse). Highly specialized, can not compete with other Elite options against a "normal" target.

Edit:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Crap you are right. I understood the origin of the pariahs all wrong.

I'll go make them constructs now, like what that guy suggested.

FNP would be interesting, but I think its out of place on a robot imo. I mean, aren't they already incapable of feeling pain?

mmmm...
Necrons are not robots. They were living things called Necrontyr. They got their souls out of the flesh and encased in a mechanical body.
They have memory and feelings, though they are losing them mostly due to insanity. And they feel pain.
Pariahs are made exactly like that, but with humans instead of Necrontyr. The process is called "biotransference".
They are not constructs. They are Necrons 2.0.

However, they didn´t got "Reanimation Protocol"- like rules in the last codex (not sure of the reason).

I like the idea of having them as a royal court option like crypteks and lords.

da001: We are looking at the old fluff to decide how to rule them, not the metal TKs bs that Ward has a hard one for.

As for the rules, I like the Idea of the Cryptek upgrade (by upgrade I mean really just replacing the model entirely), but a unit works too.

Imo they are too powerful as is. Losing reanimation protocols, giving them I3, and making them 50 pts would work.

Even with the new fluff there is a way around giving them the protocols.
With the increasing threats from the Tyranid Hive Fleets, several tomb worlds, especially the bio-world of Zantragora have begun to experiment with CC oriented anti psyker creations.
However, to active the higher level of movement, these new creations have limited self repair abilities. These abilities focus more on keeping the body together (+1W) rather that repairing critical damage.

The Spyder has a Psychic Hood of sorts, there's no reason that couldn't be integrated into a 'canoptic pariah'. 2 wounds and 5 toughness is certainly tough enough without RAP.

Config2 wrote:da001: We are looking at the old fluff to decide how to rule them, not the metal TKs bs that Ward has a hard one for.

TKs? Are you sure? Never played them.
What "old fluff" are you exactly talking about? Two wounds? Crypteks? Necrons are robots? Pariah are weapons the Necs are developing now?

Read this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Pariah#.Tsor03L_H3A
This is more or less the fluff I am using.

Deadshot wrote:

da001 wrote:
3) “You are Alone”: Any unit doing a Ld – test must use its own Ld (hi nids!), and can not get bonuses from gear or other units.

Hi da001! Nice try! Synapse means they ignore IB completely, and maeks them fearless. That means there is notest. They auto pass Morale and pinning tests. Nice Try though!

Ya, but he said Leadership test, not morale test. A leadership test is a characteristic test and fearless does not make them auto-pass those.

What other LD tests are there besides Psychic Tests? That they would really need to take, not just as a one off?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Morale Tests arer Ld Tests BTW. Just one that is auto passed by Fearless.

Not sure, but I think is Psychic, Pinning and Morale. Pinning and Morale are automatically passed by Fearless...

The rules I wrote are not well written though. RAI: Pariah cut your connections and mess with Synapse; Pariah hurt daemons badly; P hurt Psykers badly; P disgust everything (Soulless old rule or equivalent).

Googling for rules for Pariahs I found one concerning Jurgen (from Ciaphas Cain):
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=95099
"Any Psychically guided or controlled enemies within 3 inches, such as non-Synapse Tyranid Bioforms and Wraithguard revert to unescorted behavior."
From the same page: psykers (friend and foe) get a -2Ld near him within 6 inches, can not use powers within 3 inches.

And now something completely different: about the Pariah not having RP. I recall reading something about Biotransference not working well on them... something about Pariah bleeding (not fully mechanical)?? Not sure where I got this...

So RAI

Wraithguard/Lords must always fail Wraithsight
Nids must always fail IB
Psychic Tests auto fail
Daemons must take save or wound


So


55pts=Anti GK, Abnti Nid, Anti Psyker, anti Daemon, anti WraithS?

Deadshot wrote:What other LD tests are there besides Psychic Tests? That they would really need to take, not just as a one off?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Morale Tests arer Ld Tests BTW. Just one that is auto passed by Fearless.

No, morale tests are morale tests that use leadership as the number to roll under. Leadership tests are a characteristic test (like rolling a strength test for the monolith portal suck-you-in ability) and are "not" the same thing. First thing that comes to mind is testing for mindshackle scarabs.

da001 wrote:Not sure, but I think is Psychic, Pinning and Morale. Pinning and Morale are automatically passed by Fearless...

The rules I wrote are not well written though. RAI: Pariah cut your connections and mess with Synapse; Pariah hurt daemons badly; P hurt Psykers badly; P disgust everything (Soulless old rule or equivalent).

Googling for rules for Pariahs I found one concerning Jurgen (from Ciaphas Cain):
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=95099
"Any Psychically guided or controlled enemies within 3 inches, such as non-Synapse Tyranid Bioforms and Wraithguard revert to unescorted behavior."
From the same page: psykers (friend and foe) get a -2Ld near him within 6 inches, can not use powers within 3 inches.

And now something completely different: about the Pariah not having RP. I recall reading something about Biotransference not working well on them... something about Pariah bleeding (not fully mechanical)?? Not sure where I got this...

Psychic tests are leadership tests and are wholly separate from Pinning and Morale. Fearless does pass pinning and morale but NOT psychic tests.

Kevin949 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:What other LD tests are there besides Psychic Tests? That they would really need to take, not just as a one off?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Morale Tests arer Ld Tests BTW. Just one that is auto passed by Fearless.

No, morale tests are morale tests that use leadership as the number to roll under. Leadership tests are a characteristic test (like rolling a strength test for the monolith portal suck-you-in ability) and are "not" the same thing. First thing that comes to mind is testing for mindshackle scarabs.

Yes they are. Pg 43 of the rulebook, paragraph 2, the little one under the bolded section

Morale Tests are a specific Leadership test.

I think Kevin949 has a point here. Mindshackle scarabs is a good example of how a Ld test can be different from a Pinning / Morale test.

“Morale Tests are a specific Leadership test”: all morale tests are Ld tests.
But not all Ld tests are morale tests.

Deadshot wrote:So RAI
Wraithguard/Lords must always fail Wraithsight
Nids must always fail IB
Psychic Tests auto fail
Daemons must take save or wound

Wraithguard: no idea. I will ask a friend for an Eldar Codex. Never fought wraithguards. I just copy/pasted from the other forum.
Nids: they must use their own Ld if they are forced to do so. So they will not always succeed / fail. However, Pariahs should be always a high priority target for nids if they get fluffy rules.
Daemons/ psykers: some even worse happening to them.
An important one: something against just everything (like the old special rule or the one proposed by the OP or the “any unit declaring an assault against them must pass a Ld test”). Tau would be the only exception, but then again they do not asault that much.

If they are W1, T5, A1, Save 4+ & no RP (as old codex, -1 save) they should not be that costy, even if they create a (6 inches? 12 inches?) bubble of nastyness. I mean, they die easy. And they are good only against some targets.

You can blow them up with a zoanthrope or exterminate them with shrieks or genestealers or something. I know nids are not high tier now (and I play daemons) but, well… necrons are not into the mechanized thing, and nids are suffering mostly due to mech. In the last codex, pariah were awful because they died before doing anything.

Deadshot wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:What other LD tests are there besides Psychic Tests? That they would really need to take, not just as a one off?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Morale Tests arer Ld Tests BTW. Just one that is auto passed by Fearless.

No, morale tests are morale tests that use leadership as the number to roll under. Leadership tests are a characteristic test (like rolling a strength test for the monolith portal suck-you-in ability) and are "not" the same thing. First thing that comes to mind is testing for mindshackle scarabs.

Yes they are. Pg 43 of the rulebook, paragraph 2, the little one under the bolded section

Morale Tests are a specific Leadership test.

Yes, but you're still just proving my point of fearless not working on Leadership tests, "only" morale tests and pinning tests. Even though morale tests are a "type of" leadership test, they still are not leadership tests in the sense of taking a leadership test vs. a morale test. Kind of like Ramming is a special type of tank shock but it is still not technically a tank shock.

I think you should give them a cool Unique weapon, To go with it, in addition to the following Statline

WS 4
BS 4
ST 5
T 5
W 1
I 4
A 2
LD 10
SV 2+



Special Rules
Fearless
Feel no Pain (4+) See below

Phase Fields and Layered Plating- Necrons could not do a complete bio-transference on Pariahs without losing the benefit of the Pariah gene. To compensate for this, Pariahs were given powerful minuture force weilds, that formed a powerful weave around their bodies which can turn aside even the most powerful of weapons. For those that somehow manage to punch through, it may just Graze off the honey-combed and admantium layered plate armor. The Pariah has a 2+ Save and Feel no Pain (4+)

Soulless- The Pariahs have no presence in the warp, causing their very being to disrupt Psykers. All Psykers within 24' of a Pariah count as LD 7 for the purposes of Psychic tests. This includes Vehicles.


For the Unique weapon, How about a Void Scythe? A two-hand weapon that Gives them Entropic Strike, and Rending, in addition to the following special rule:

Aura of Entropy- The decaying power of the Void Scythe reaches out to all enemy models within 6', by reducing all of their armor saves (Including invulnerable)by 1. Can't become worse than a 6+.

I.E. An Assault Terminator would have his Armor save dropped to a 3+ and his Storm shield invul would be dropped to a 4++

40 points.


I think this would make a powerful assault unit, and could compliment other assault units well. I didn't want to give it an invulnerable save, as I don't think everything needs one, and to help balance out the power of it's weapon. They also have I4, because they aren't pure Necrons, which is why they don't get RP either. Overall, I think it's powerful, and could maybe go up 5 or so points in cost.

Edit: Added in an explanation for the 2+ and FNP.

Well these are the rules i use when I play with my friends. One plays seer heavy eldar, the other SW. Both of them are cool with it is this is what I use. It's an upgrade to a normal lord.

Upgrade to a Pariah Lord ... 25 pts
Gain Gloom prism and Warscythe

I think invulnerables should be left alone. If not, then only wargear invulnerables should be dropped. I don't thnik Daemons, who are protected by pure Warpness, should suffer like that, becausethey are rotting?

Ok, here is my take on Pariahs.

In order to avoid competition with the Lychguard, I am keeping the old profile. Most is copy/pasted from the previous edition. They are not a CC elite unit. They are a meh unit with nasty special rules.

Necron Pariahs.
Elite. 160 Points.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
--4---4--5-5-1--3-1-10-4+

As in the old Codex, with the -1 Sv nerf following the Warriors. As I said, I am not buffing them up, which will make them compete with the Lychguard.

Unit type & composition: infantry. 4 Necron Pariahs.
Weapons: Warscythe with built-in Gauss Blaster.
Special Rules: Fearless. Soulless. Psychic Abomination.
Options: May include up to six additional Necron Pariahs….40 points per model.
Transport: May select a Night Scythe as a dedicated transport (see page 91 Codex: Necrons for points costs).

Wow, copy/paste is so easy.
Now the special rules:

Special Rules:
Soulless:


Psychic Abomination:


Other considerations:


Thoughts?

Now that I like the look of.