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King Crow wrote:. My primary worry might be that they might change the battlesuit design, EVERY design, and that the battle suits are going to look more smooth and rounded. Which will look more like anime

The Tau have always looked like rejects from bad anime.

That was the demographic GW was going for when they made the army in the first place.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

King Crow wrote:. My primary worry might be that they might change the battlesuit design, EVERY design, and that the battle suits are going to look more smooth and rounded. Which will look more like anime

The Tau have always looked like rejects from bad anime.

That was the demographic GW was going for when they made the army in the first place.

Uangrybro.jpeg

King Crow wrote:I never thought the rules worked this way. But it is really interesting to know some things. weather they are true or not I guess.

I've been playing since mid-4th edition and I've done my homework as far as 40k is concerned. Pretty much every single codex release has people saying it's broken or overpowered just because they don't know how to deal with something in the codex, or because they saw the stat sheets and had a kneejerk reaction. Yes, there is a degree of codex creep, but it's honestly not that bad.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

King Crow wrote:. My primary worry might be that they might change the battlesuit design, EVERY design, and that the battle suits are going to look more smooth and rounded. Which will look more like anime

The Tau have always looked like rejects from bad anime.

That was the demographic GW was going for when they made the army in the first place.

Back in third. When they had crazy Samurai Ethereals and half of the rules made no sense at all because it was a rushed release to get some anime money. The 4th Edition codex kept the look but toned down the animeness, fine tuned the fuff, and made the rules more coherent.

Lobukia wrote:As long as they leave the kroot and broadsides alone, I'm fine with just about anything else they do.

Actually the Kroot are in Desperate need for a Revamp to make them stronger and better in CC and blocking incoming assualts and the Broadside needs a little extra something special too.

Codex overall is crap and Just about everything needs to be changed. Especially Markerlight Drones B.S needs to At LEAST be a 4 by itself. I remember this time in one turn. 10 marker lights went off and NONE of them hit once or like one or two that did hit was cover saved.

Robotic machines DESIGNED to shoot something with extreme precision so that a ball of light will make it easier for those with crap b.s like all tau have need to have a good bs.

CuddlySquig wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Better at shooting, worse in assault.

Make them even worse in assault? Can it be done?

Maybe they could have several auxiliry-race units that are effective in assault, leaving the Fire Warriors to sit back and shoot.

DoctorZombie wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Better at shooting, worse in assault.

Make them even worse in assault? Can it be done?

Maybe they could have several auxiliry-race units that are effective in assault, leaving the Fire Warriors to sit back and shoot.

As opposed to the auxiliry-race they already have that is effective in assault, leaving the Fire Warriors to sit back and shoot?

CuddlySquig wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Better at shooting, worse in assault.

Make them even worse in assault? Can it be done?

Assaulting a Tau unit grants +1A.

It would put the Tau right where they belong; six feet under.

Nerivant wrote:
Assaulting a Tau unit grants +1A.

It would put the Tau right where they belong; six feet under.

Then there'd be no point to the defensive grenades that the Tau have.
Maybe cut them down to STR 2? Just say that the Tau are a weak-limbed people.

Great, now you people have me answering my own question

No...no.
How many imperial guard players do you think would leap at the chance to take squads for 30 points in return for I 1 and WS1?
40k isn't an RPG, you can't powerstat your army.
Yes we all like making mages with charisma 8 and intelligence 18 but it isn't fair on the other boys and girls.

Hammerheads and Skyrays need more weapon love. The only reasonable weapon on the Hammerhead is the Rail Gun for its submunitions; the Ion Cannon is just abysmal (Buffing it to Heavy 5 or 6 would be perfect).

And maybe another long-ranged strength 8 weapon would be absolutely fantastic.

Field Gen wrote:

Lobukia wrote:As long as they leave the kroot and broadsides alone, I'm fine with just about anything else they do.

Actually the Kroot are in Desperate need for a Revamp to make them stronger and better in CC and blocking incoming assualts and the Broadside needs a little extra something special too.

Codex overall is crap and Just about everything needs to be changed. Especially Markerlight Drones B.S needs to At LEAST be a 4 by itself. I remember this time in one turn. 10 marker lights went off and NONE of them hit once or like one or two that did hit was cover saved.

Robotic machines DESIGNED to shoot something with extreme precision so that a ball of light will make it easier for those with crap b.s like all tau have need to have a good bs.

Just wanted to point out, I'm pretty sure you can't take saves against markerlights because they don't cause wounds to save.

If I'm wrong, however, then they are total crap and the Tau as well for the most part.

No, I'm not Tau bashing,
Yes they can still be a strong army in the hands of an experienced player,
but the way things are, they are a weak army that has not stood the test of time.

King Crow wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

King Crow wrote:. My primary worry might be that they might change the battlesuit design, EVERY design, and that the battle suits are going to look more smooth and rounded. Which will look more like anime

The Tau have always looked like rejects from bad anime.

That was the demographic GW was going for when they made the army in the first place.

Uangrybro.jpeg

Angry about what? You just suggested the Tau somehow weren't aimed at capturing players from the demographic that likes anmie. Everything in 40K is derivative. That;s just what the Tau are derived from.

I think they are going to get 2+/2++/2+++/2++++/2+++++/6++++++ saves, be 4 points and have S10 AP0 (as in better than 1) assault 20 range 90' guns.

The best part is that they are ALL like that, and you can only take that one troop choice. And a special HQ that makes them all AV20 on all sides instead of having a toughness/leadership value. Which are solid 10s btw.

King Crow wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Better at shooting, worse in assault.

Make them even worse in assault? Can it be done?

WS1.

You wouldn't dare! :O

But Mr. SPEHSS Pope did!

I'm just gonna say that I hope they get a proper update. A lot of people only want a few rules changes, one or two stat changes and maybe a new unit or kit here and there, however waiting this long for just that isn't enough. I want GW to make Tau even more unique as an army, to give us exciting new toys while not taking away from the army's feel. I just think one or two unit changes is a bit lacklustre for a codex update.

As a Tau player, I honestly don't find that they need too many changes to be brought in line. As always, this is simply my opinion and may be entirely wrong, but heh..

HQ Change: Add a Junior Ethereal that can be added to FW squads as an attached advisor, much like Commissars, Priests, etc. in IG. Either do away with the Death rule for these little guys or drastically reduce it so that it will only affect the attached unit. Give them some bonus to their unit, but doesn't have to be huge, but the BS modifier current Ethereal's give to their bodyguard's isn't bad.

Elite Change: Stealths are slightly overpriced and often disregarded for Crisis Overloads. Not sure how to counter this as Crisis suits are a very strong elite choice and unless Stealths costs drop drastically or something new is added to them, they may continue as is.

Troops Change: I am one of those who thing FW squads are actually ok as is. People complain about either CC or costs, but with decent armor (4+), 30", S5, Rapid Fire weapon and option for Pinning version and grenades, they aren't bad at current settings. HOWEVER, wouldn't mind them adding a single special weapon to the squad. Fire Warriors who can use a flamer or Fusion Blaster would add some spice. See Drones for another option.

Kroot: Hmm.. Reduce the Shaper's cost! Make them more akin to a normal sergeant upgrade with maybe a slight boost to Ini and Atk over a normal Kroot. If they decide to add more Kroot options, possible bring the current
Shaper back as a Master Shaper and possibly an alternative HQ choice so a Tau player could run a Kroot Merc list.

Fast Attack: Leave them alone. Fine as is. Any change to Pathfinders will either overpower them or make them useless. Drone squadrons are fine as well. Cost vs. strengths are balanced.

Hvy Attack: Add Heavy Drone squadrons from Forge World so as to give players more options for the robotic drone army. Makes sense in the fluff as when a Sept is cut off by enemies, they would turn to their drones to boost their forces.

Drones: Use Tau tech to boost their armies as opposed to just adding new rules or changing existing squads too much.
Flamer Drones: Good for allowing a FW squad the ability to add an assault weapon or Template weapon to help strengthen them in this area. Useful when an enemy gets too close. Let the flamer drone thin out the numbers some in
case the enemy unit might assault. May help even the odds on a FW squad surviving some assaults.
Flechette Drone: Much like the vehicle gear, a unit protected by a Flechette drone would give enemies some pause before assaulting, as they would suffer an automatic 4+ wound chance.

There are countless possibilities to change any army for the better (or worse). The problem is always that if they make too many changes, either the army acts as if it were entirely new or is so broken no one wants to touch it. Small changes are better than mass overhauls as they are easier to gauge the effects and recover from.

Realy, all i want is a new battlesuit kit, battlesuits that can take 2 identical wepon w/ out them being twin-linked, stupid ethereal rules gone and mayby some special rule that will add some more spice (and OFC point costs hammerd out)

CuddlySquig wrote:Depends on whether a particular man who's initials are M.W writes it.

Nope its not Andy Chambers

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

King Crow wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

King Crow wrote:. My primary worry might be that they might change the battlesuit design, EVERY design, and that the battle suits are going to look more smooth and rounded. Which will look more like anime

The Tau have always looked like rejects from bad anime.

That was the demographic GW was going for when they made the army in the first place.

Uangrybro.jpeg

Angry about what? You just suggested the Tau somehow weren't aimed at capturing players from the demographic that likes anmie. Everything in 40K is derivative. That;s just what the Tau are derived from.

Your mad that we have Str 10 AP 1 railguns. I don't like anime, but i like the Tau. So that makes what you just said wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

acekevin8412 wrote:

Field Gen wrote:

Lobukia wrote:As long as they leave the kroot and broadsides alone, I'm fine with just about anything else they do.

Actually the Kroot are in Desperate need for a Revamp to make them stronger and better in CC and blocking incoming assualts and the Broadside needs a little extra something special too.

Codex overall is crap and Just about everything needs to be changed. Especially Markerlight Drones B.S needs to At LEAST be a 4 by itself. I remember this time in one turn. 10 marker lights went off and NONE of them hit once or like one or two that did hit was cover saved.

Robotic machines DESIGNED to shoot something with extreme precision so that a ball of light will make it easier for those with crap b.s like all tau have need to have a good bs.

Just wanted to point out, I'm pretty sure you can't take saves against markerlights because they don't cause wounds to save.

If I'm wrong, however, then they are total crap and the Tau as well for the most part.

No, I'm not Tau bashing,
Yes they can still be a strong army in the hands of an experienced player,
but the way things are, they are a weak army that has not stood the test of time.

Wait, ar you saying that the Tau's story and timeline is weak? or that the army is weak compared to every other army in 40k due to new rules?

My one wish is that they boost the Firewarrior BS to 4. I mean the tau are supposed to be the almighty gods of shooting so a BS of 3 just doesnt do them justice imo. And now with all the assault orientated armies (or assault tailored lists) deepstriking into battle right infront of them im sure they could use the 1+ boost. I would be interested in seeing an all Kroot list. I would love to collect an all kroot army.

King Crow wrote:the battle suits are going to look more smooth and rounded.

I quite like the roundish look some of the Forge World battlesuits have going for them in particular this one
The Sleeked back head and the rounder barrelsque chests look more realistic. Look at the standard Battlesuits for example. Theres no room in them for the pilot. The pilot would either have to be crammed up in the foetal position in the chest or stretched out beyond reason to fit his arms and legs into their respective battlesuit extremities. The Forge World ones are just kind of built... tighter together? I dont really know how to describe it but i see the FW battlesuits as being more feasible then the standard GW ones. Plus those ankles need a serious rethinking...

King Crow wrote:I didn't know weather to post this here or news and rumors so i hope i don't get chewed out

Anyways, I'm a little worried about what/how much might get changed with the new Tau codex. My primary worry might be that they might change the battlesuit design, EVERY design, and that the battle suits are going to look more smooth and rounded. Which will look more like anime :l. plus i'm afraid that the new codex will screw the tau over. What are your thoughts?

I dunno. Are you asking? Or are we wishlisting?

Overall, I don't care so long as they make room for static Tau again. I want a firewarrior gunline protecting hammerheads and broadsides with a bunch of crisis suits making trouble up front.

One thing I think is going to happen, and it's going to piss a lot of tau fanboys off, is a removal of move-shoot-move from crisis suits. I don't see that staying.
1) It's annoying.
2) It takes more time than it should.
3) It's frustrating to play against.
4) It's not fun to play against.
5) It keeps Tau players from fielding more crisis suits (by making them a lot more expensive and limiting their numbers in a design meta-sense)...which would be a lot more fun.

Dude, I use Crisis Suits because they move, shoot, move.

The ability to step out from behind cover, land a few shots then get back is essential for the longer ranged weaposn on the Crisis Suit. The ability to fire off shots at close range, then step back a bit keeps the assaulters a bit further away when using the shorter ranged weapons on the suits (well for those that actually use them, I prefer dancing around at long range).

The fact that the main rulebook has an entire subtype more or less devoted to the capabilities of the Tau jet pack makes me think that it's probably going to stay a while. After-all, Eldar Jetbikes have had their special movement for a while too.

I expect we are going to see redone battlesuit sculpt (if at the very least to get the metal out of the Broadside) plus some new fluff for the weapons and features of it. I am okay with this (even though it means a lot of new models to buy) because I thinkt he Tau weapons should be very unique, rather than a collection of Imperium weapons with the serial numbers filed off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Snurb, as for BS 4 Firewarriors, I am going to say no for a few reasons.

1) I can only think of 1 model with BS 4 that costs only 10 points to field and that's a Ratling. GW wants to reduce the point cost of our Firewarriors, not keep it the same. So rather than give us Ratlings, they are going to give us guardsmen with a big gun, better armour and a fear of close combat, which is what the Tau have always been.

2) Tau Firewarriors are actually BS 5 already, that's what Markerlights are for. I suspect our Markerlights will get revised a fair bit, hopefully into something that encourages players to take a markerlight in almost every squad plus dedicated markerlight units for added capability. Perhaps making all markerlights the equivalent of Networked so the firing squad can benefit from them. I also think that the Markerlights might turn us to twin-linked isntead of +1 or +2 BS and we may lose the whole add and remove tokens effect.

3) BS 4 is for Space Marines, not the Tau. The Tau solve their deficiencies through technology, not better training.

Jefffar wrote:Dude, I use Crisis Suits because they move, shoot, move.

The ability to step out from behind cover, land a few shots then get back is essential for the longer ranged weaposn on the Crisis Suit. The ability to fire off shots at close range, then step back a bit keeps the assaulters a bit further away when using the shorter ranged weapons on the suits (well for those that actually use them, I prefer dancing around at long range).

The fact that the main rulebook has an entire subtype more or less devoted to the capabilities of the Tau jet pack makes me think that it's probably going to stay a while. After-all, Eldar Jetbikes have had their special movement for a while too.

Like I said, while I'm sure move-shoot-move is a total hoot to play *as*, it's not fun to play *against*. You're not the only one playing here. There is at least one other person there who is silently cursing *at* your crisis suits as they do their little dance (and silently wishing he had more guess weapons).

However, I was sure GW wouldn't leave Necrons stranded without any AT after they nerfed gauss in 5th. Don't count on the blurb in the BRB saving your jetpacks from anything. At least you'll be getting a new codex right before or right after a new edition comes out.

...and I still think it's going away. if the rumors are true about crisis suits going to 1-5 with a significant price drop (and/or moving to troops if you take a crisis commander) then I just don't see the jetpack staying the same. If either of those are true crisis suits will become jump infantry.

As for eldar, they may get to keep it, but that's because the range on an eldar jetbike is a little bit shorter than the range on a crisis suit.

'crons have great AT, it just isn't obvious AT like a lascannon is.

Edar Jetbkes move farther than crisis suits and most crsis suit weapons are 18inches or less.

The BS4 on the fire warriors again?

Its not always cool to be so dependent on markerlights to hit something 20m infront of you. It does have its benifits gameplay wise, but it would be hard to justerfy without some kind of weird stuff like ever fire warrior having target locks in their helmets or something.

Jefffar wrote:Snurb, as for BS 4 Firewarriors, I am going to say no for a few reasons.

1) I can only think of 1 model with BS 4 that costs only 10 points to field and that's a Ratling. GW wants to reduce the point cost of our Firewarriors, not keep it the same. So rather than give us Ratlings, they are going to give us guardsmen with a big gun, better armour and a fear of close combat, which is what the Tau have always been.

2) Tau Firewarriors are actually BS 5 already, that's what Markerlights are for. I suspect our Markerlights will get revised a fair bit, hopefully into something that encourages players to take a markerlight in almost every squad plus dedicated markerlight units for added capability. Perhaps making all markerlights the equivalent of Networked so the firing squad can benefit from them. I also think that the Markerlights might turn us to twin-linked isntead of +1 or +2 BS and we may lose the whole add and remove tokens effect.

3) BS 4 is for Space Marines, not the Tau. The Tau solve their deficiencies through technology, not better training.

Just gonna point out that Dark Eldar Kabalite Warriors have BS 4 and are just 9 points each, however I agree with your main point that Fire Warriors shouldn't be BS4, BS3 with S5 guns is still fairly good, if markerlights were more widespread as they should be there would be no issue.

Although I believe Crisis Suits should definitely have BS4 because, as you said, the Tau overcome their deficiencies through technology. Once comparison that is always brought up is Crisis Suits vs IG Veterans, people generally argue that a Crisis Suit pilot would have more or atleast equal experience to a Veteran, so should have BS4, and also has technology helping them as well.

ZeroSamurai wrote:
Just gonna point out that Dark Eldar Kabalite Warriors have BS 4 and are just 9 points each, however I agree with your main point that Fire Warriors shouldn't be BS4, BS3 with S5 guns is still fairly good, if markerlights were more widespread as they should be there would be no issue.

Kabalite Warriors don't have a 4+ armor save or S5, 30" guns.

Although I believe Crisis Suits should definitely have BS4 because, as you said, the Tau overcome their deficiencies through technology. Once comparison that is always brought up is Crisis Suits vs IG Veterans, people generally argue that a Crisis Suit pilot would have more or atleast equal experience to a Veteran, so should have BS4, and also has technology helping them as well.

Markerlights = technology

And, crisis suit pilots have nothing on IG vets. You're comparing members of a very short lived race who use technology as a crutch to survivors who get handed a las gun, a knife/bayonet, and get told "If you have nothing, you can still give your life. Try to retreat and I'll shoot you".

IG veterans have survived a (sometimes literal) hell for their hard won veteran status (like the DKoK).

Maybe if they were serving in the Farsight Enclave it could be justified from a fluff perspective...

Besides which, if your justification for BS4 is "technology" then the necrons should have BS5.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Better at shooting, worse in assault.

Make them even worse in assault? Can it be done?

WS1.

I'm pretty sure that every Tau player out there would happily eat army-wide WS 1 if the new base Tau BS went up to 4.

Panzerboy26 wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Better at shooting, worse in assault.

Make them even worse in assault? Can it be done?

WS1.

I'm pretty sure that every Tau player out there would happily eat army-wide WS 1 if the new base Tau BS went up to 4.

Pretty much, making them WS 1 really doesn't make them any worse, it just means a few more models die before your swept instead of after.