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BrainDeleted wrote:He's been offered several times and has refused several times.

Noticed how the Daemon Primarches don't do so much anymore? That's because it's hard for Daemons to leave the Eye and remain corporeal and stable.

That's what he wants you to think. In the real, it's because he's an armless failure.

BrainDeleted wrote:He's been offered several times and has refused several times.

Noticed how the Daemon Primarches don't do so much anymore? That's because it's hard for Daemons to leave the Eye and remain corporeal and stable.

I can see this as a valid reason. +1

@Vaktathi is that why the forces of chaos always ended up on Cadia?

He is also silly to get into attritional warfare with the IG.

And I'm not saying this one won't work it's just that by now, Abaddon would have lost the needed momentum to beat guard forces

Not all the Black Crusades have been about Cadia, in most instances they have had to attack Cadia as it's the fortress world that's there to stop them from leaving the Eye.



The first failed but Abaddon recovered Drach'nyen, the Fourth saw El'phanor destroyed, the Seventh could have had the Imperium by the balls as they didn't know where the forces of Chaos went, as they just disappeared, also slaughtering Blood Angels at Mackan and the 12th He captured the Blackstones.

Abaddon has an eternity to set his plans in order before he makes an attack on Terra, I don't think he's as much fail as everyone thinks he is

The reason why he isn't a Daemon Prince yet, look what happens to Daemon Princes all the time, M'kar banished, Angron banished, Magnus banished. Whilst he's mortal - ish he has the freedom to do what he wants. Daemon Primarchs also don't seem that bothered in the day to day dealings of a Chaos Marine anymore.

*enlisting in Abbadon's 14th crusade*
"Hey, why hasn't this worked the last 13 times?"
"Blood for the blood god!"
"Sounds reasonable..."

Pilau Rice wrote:
The reason why he isn't a Daemon Prince yet, look what happens to Daemon Princes all the time, M'kar banished, Angron banished, Magnus banished. Whilst he's mortal - ish he has the freedom to do what he wants. Daemon Primarchs also don't seem that bothered in the day to day dealings of a Chaos Marine anymore.

It's not even that. The REAL reason is due to a power far greater than the Chaos Gods: Games Workshop. Sometimes fluff writes the rules, but sometimes rules write the fluff. In this case, it's the latter. When they wrote Abaddon, they could not make a daemon prince independent character as powerful as him without unbalancing the Chaos codex, but they still needed an alpha male for the chaos marines.

Heck, it goes even further than that. The reason Abaddon had 12 other black crusades was so the 13th Black Crusade could be the THIRTEENTH Black Crusade for the Eye of Terror worldwide campaign. Because you know, thirteen's a scary number. So GW wrote both "Abaddon's a man" and "this worldwide campaign is the 13th Crusade" and then had to hogwash up reasons why these two facts were so. In doing so, they inadvertently made Abaddon look like the biggest tool in the galaxy.

The Crusader wrote:How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

Looks like you have yet to figure out that the Cadian gate, which is what Abaddon is trying to take, is the safest passage out of the Eye of Terror. So if Abaddon takes Cadia, he can march the Legions out with gay abandon, raiding at will and making a course for Terra.
Also, as a few people have stated, around half of the Black Crusades weren't attacks on Cadia, the best example being when Abaddon decided he wanted a new Summer home after he got sick of the funny smell the Planet Killer had on deck, so he set his sights on a Blackstone fortress.

Also, 13 crusades in 10,000 years? That's not bad really. And since time flows differently in the Warp, maybe it's all just one Crusade that's lasted about a fortnight from Abaddon's point of view, we may never know.

They're Chaos. They don't care which way is safest to go.

He also exits the warp to actually fight.

Personally I think its his ponytail telling him to do it

CuddlySquig wrote:But they were all conventional wars. And Abaddon cannot replace the cream of his forces.

well technically.....he could with aid of the warp, simply resurrect em back in the eye

The Crusader wrote:They're Chaos. They don't care which way is safest to go.

The followers of Chaos generally don't want to die, so yes, they do care which way is safer. That's why Abaddon attacks Cadia. He needs the Gate to be able to properly mount a campaign against the Imperium.

I love how it's usually presented as Abaddon being hugely incompetent rather than the far larger and more unified Imperium actually doing something right.

Lol, first thought reading this threads title, "..on second thought, let's not visit the Eye, 'tis a silly place..."

GW cannot make Abaddon win because it would destroy it's best selling army.

CuddlySquig wrote:

Harriticus wrote:I Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

How much do you know about the Storm of Chaos campaign?

Another thing that nudges my mind is that Abaddon still isn't a daemon prince.

Abaddon has been offered daemonhood many, many times but has refused it. Maybe he does not want to become a complete slave to anyone?

That and as mentioned before as a daemon it would be more difficult to enter realspace.

Right now he has no leah and he is really damn strong, however if he becomes a daemon he will be several times stronger but suddenly have a leash.....

Aren't Black Crusades causing the Imperium tremendous grief and pain? I mean, the Chaos and Havoc caused has pretty much feed the Chaos Gods and given Abaddon more strength. He's pretty good for a Chaos Warlord Except for his pony tail which has probably stopped him from seeing most things, also if the Chaos Forces on Cadia where to be joined up with a 14th Crusade, imagine the amount of Chaos Servants assaulting Cadia then.

Hey hey now... that tainted and unclean ponytail gives him the extra +1 Toughness!

Abbaddon's problem is that he has Fabius Bile as his Hair Dresser.

Id hate to see what it turned into if he was a daemon..

A sentient daemon weapon most likely.

Pretty sure i read on lexicanum that most of the crusades were led by abaddon. So that means that he hasn't "failed" as many times as most make out.

He still was overall commander if them all though, which placed the blame on his shoulders

If one thing is true about Chaos armies and their leaders...they're never random, everything they do is for a reason.

Abaddon may have lead those previous crusades purely as a test of the IoM's forces, to collect slaves/artefacts/other nastiness. Now he's got a foothold on the one planet the IoM has never let him have a foothold on.

Of course the Imperial Navy owns the space around Cadia making it a one-sided fight anyway.

nomotog wrote:Look at it the other way. He hasn't failed 13 times. He has found 13 ways not to invade cadia.

Best way to put it ^

Hey, I've got a question... If Abbadon isn't stupid for attacking Cadia, because he needs Cadia to be able to attack the rest of the Imperium...

How has he led 12 Black Crusades against the rest of the Imperium WITHOUT first taking Cadia?

If Abbadon isn't a failure for not being able to take Cadia, because 12 of his Crusades were succesful in attacking other areas, why is he trying to take Cadia at all? He got 12 Black Crusades past it successfuly! Why is he wasting time/men/resources on attacking it? If he can move 12 Crusades past Cadia, why can't he move one right up to the Goldne Throne?

And you can't say "because of Cadia" because Abbadon himself proved Cadia isn't the key.

Frankly, i think Abbadon IS a failure BECAUSE he insists on attacking Cadia in the first place. He's proven he can get large forces past Cadia, and we know it takes the Imperium at least a month to get it's gak together and mount any kind of a defense anywhere. That's 30 days he'd have to scour Terra and Mars with his Blackstone Fortresses. Or his Planetkiller, which actually KILLS PLANETS. Planets like fething TERRA.

Seriously you no-armed failure, get off your @$$ and finish this bullgak Horus Heresy II Electric Bugaloo so we can all go home!

Ok if Abaddon is silly for not beating the imperium why isnt the imperium silly for killing him or any other force out there?

squidhills wrote:Hey, I've got a question... If Abbadon isn't stupid for attacking Cadia, because he needs Cadia to be able to attack the rest of the Imperium...

How has he led 12 Black Crusades against the rest of the Imperium WITHOUT first taking Cadia?

If Abbadon isn't a failure for not being able to take Cadia, because 12 of his Crusades were succesful in attacking other areas, why is he trying to take Cadia at all? He got 12 Black Crusades past it successfuly! Why is he wasting time/men/resources on attacking it? If he can move 12 Crusades past Cadia, why can't he move one right up to the Goldne Throne?

And you can't say "because of Cadia" because Abbadon himself proved Cadia isn't the key.

Frankly, i think Abbadon IS a failure BECAUSE he insists on attacking Cadia in the first place. He's proven he can get large forces past Cadia, and we know it takes the Imperium at least a month to get it's gak together and mount any kind of a defense anywhere. That's 30 days he'd have to scour Terra and Mars with his Blackstone Fortresses. Or his Planetkiller, which actually KILLS PLANETS. Planets like fething TERRA.

Seriously you no-armed failure, get off your @$$ and finish this bullgak Horus Heresy II Electric Bugaloo so we can all go home!

Well, it was because Creed managed to use his tactical ingenuity to hide the whole planet 12 consecutive times.

Draigo wrote:Ok if Abaddon is silly for not beating the imperium why isnt the imperium silly for killing him or any other force out there?

Because for all his armlessness and failureness (it's a word! I made it up myself!) Abbadon has one thing going for him: the Eye of Terror. No sane bugger will even consider going into it. The Imperium can't get him when he makes it into the Eye, and I'm sure Tzeentch does things to the Warp that let Abby have an easy time navigating through the Imperium.

Basically, The Imperium can't kill Abbadon because the only thing he doesn't fail at is running away and hiding.

As for why the Imperium doesn't kill all the Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc...

It's becuase those are real threats that require a great deal of effort to stop. The Orks outnumber humanity. The Tyranids require a great deal of resources/men/effort to stop. The Eldar are hard to locate. If you can't find them, you can't kill them. They only show up when the odds are in their favor. Ditto for the Dark Eldar. I can't speak about the Necrons because I don't know enough about their new fluff. Tau aren't worth the Imperium's time right now.

squidhills wrote:

Draigo wrote:Ok if Abaddon is silly for not beating the imperium why isnt the imperium silly for killing him or any other force out there?

Because for all his armlessness and failureness (it's a word! I made it up myself!) Abbadon has one thing going for him: the Eye of Terror. No sane bugger will even consider going into it. The Imperium can't get him when he makes it into the Eye, and I'm sure Tzeentch does things to the Warp that let Abby have an easy time navigating through the Imperium.

Basically, The Imperium can't kill Abbadon because the only thing he doesn't fail at is running away and hiding.

As for why the Imperium doesn't kill all the Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc...

It's becuase those are real threats that require a great deal of effort to stop. The Orks outnumber humanity. The Tyranids require a great deal of resources/men/effort to stop. The Eldar are hard to locate. If you can't find them, you can't kill them. They only show up when the odds are in their favor. Ditto for the Dark Eldar. I can't speak about the Necrons because I don't know enough about their new fluff. Tau aren't worth the Imperium's time right now.

See this entire topic is hypocritical. Folks make fun of Abaddon but can't find any other leader since before the heresy that has much luck conquering anything.

Why look for a Starscream when you have a perfectly good Megatron at home?