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I have just remembered that the IoM might have someone that'll take out Abaddon. It is from the BL so I am taking it with a lorry load of salt but if your wondering the book is "Cadian Blood"

I've read the book and I might not be remembering this correctly...but ther wasn't one person, hero or otherwise, that could take Abaddon.

I mean...if you're talking about the Veteran leader? He's impressive, but he isn't Abaddon's equal.

I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

Edit: I'm sure GW will never give us that scenario as they do not want to 'off' either of these pivotal characters.

Cadia is the only stable way out of the eye of terror, and abaddon knows this.

If he takes Cadia he gets a clear shot to Terra, BUT more importantly a clear shot everywhere else!

He could let lose entire demonic invasions all across the imperium, weakening it over time, then finally crushing terra.

One of the Black Crusades killed Rogal Dorn. Did Abbadon lead that one or somebody else?

I think that was the first Black Crusade...Presumably Abbadon led that one as well. Dorn kind of stomped it in the bud though at the cost of his life.

purplefood wrote:He is very silly... and he tells bad jokes.

Yeah, he constantly tells that bad one... what is it again... sigh, cant remember i just know its abaddone.

Harriticus wrote:

Anyway, the Cadian PDF doesn't have hundreds of billions. The entire population of Cadia is only around 1 billion with 75% of the population under arms, so about 750,000,000 Cadian Interior Guard/Youth Army/Shock Troops/Kasrkin

You do realize the earth at present is 7 billion people and Cadia is a fortress world. Which is kinda like a hive world except when babies are born instead of throwing them in the garbage they give them a lasgun. Last I checked the population of Cadia was closer to 20 billion with 75% under arms. which is more like 15 billion flak armor wearing mother ers to just keep throwing at the chaos shmucks

IronSnake wrote:I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

Edit: I'm sure GW will never give us that scenario as they do not want to 'off' either of these pivotal characters.

As long as his armour is blue at worst he will get a draw...

Wait a sec, both of them are hated... Both of them have no arms...
Calgar has the advantage of having no legs as well though, maybe that's Abaddon's problem; he has legs.


He hasn't really failed as much as people say though and if anything this war of attrition he has going are in his favor, if not as a distraction to whatever it is the current crusade would be about. Trying to take the entire IoM all at once in one crusade is stupid though which is why they build up.

The Crusader wrote:I have just remembered that the IoM might have someone that'll take out Abaddon. It is from the BL so I am taking it with a lorry load of salt but if your wondering the book is "Cadian Blood"

please correct me if im wrong but are you reffering to the part where the cadian psycher reads the emperors tarrot & see's that Thade, the main guy, will be the key to their salvation after picking the despoiler card ( roughly)? i think that was more along the lines of him winning their current situation & maybe getting back to fight on cadian soil than defeating abbadon himself. though, i could (rarely happens, but maaaaybe) be wrong

squidhills wrote:
Frankly, i think Abbadon IS a failure BECAUSE he insists on attacking Cadia in the first place. He's proven he can get large forces past Cadia, and we know it takes the Imperium at least a month to get it's gak together and mount any kind of a defense anywhere. That's 30 days he'd have to scour Terra and Mars with his Blackstone Fortresses. Or his Planetkiller, which actually KILLS PLANETS. Planets like fething TERRA.

Yeah, it's really not that easy. The Segmentum Solar has an entire Segmentum Battlefleet (and if I recall correctly, is the largest one) defending it, as well as the vast defences inside Sol inself (Lunar, Mars, the Grey Knights on Titan, the Jupiter fleet and such), as well as the fortifications on Terra itself (Abaddon is unlikely to get through the Palace defence any way near quick enough, and getting caught in the rear by Imperial reinforcements would likely crush him).

Also, he's not Horus, he has limited support inside the Imperium itself. He will be resisted every step of the way, and it seems like you can't just enter Warp-space inside the Eye of Terra and pop up next to a planet. He needs Cadia to maintain supply lines. Otherwise he has no reliable means of reinforcements or resupply, and must scavenge off what he can take from other planets and ships. So yeah, logisitcs stops him.

IronSnake wrote:I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

I'm pretty sure anyone who's a decent shot could knock off Abaddon. I believe his lack of a helmet will one day get him killed.

CuddlySquig wrote:

IronSnake wrote:I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

I'm pretty sure anyone who's a decent shot could knock off Abaddon. I believe his lack of a helmet will one day get him killed.

His ponytail and uber spikes protect him from any damage..

Just like Calgar. And Astorath. And Lysander. And ....

What war of attretion? Isnt every black crusade seperated by 100s of years? Which allows the cadians time to rearm, and re populate. While at the same time for choas its only a few months?

Or it could be a few millennia to them. And the war of attrition thats happening in the 13th. As soon as Chaos lose momentum, it becomes attritional warfare. A war they cannot win

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:What war of attretion? Isnt every black crusade seperated by 100s of years? Which allows the cadians time to rearm, and re populate. While at the same time for choas its only a few months?

IIRC, three Black Crusades were aimed at Cadia, while the others were just battering rams Abaddon used to get out to achieve some objective of his own, like getting Drach'nyen. Also, the result of the actual campaign to decide the Black Crusade was a win for Chaos and failure for the Imperium, but GW gave them a partial victory because the Eldar did one of their objectives for them.

The time for the Chaos Marines could be millenia or days. They don't seem to age, regardless.

As for the war of attrition, the Imperium can't afford one without weakening against the Orks, Nids or Necrons.

Durza wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:What war of attretion? Isnt every black crusade seperated by 100s of years? Which allows the cadians time to rearm, and re populate. While at the same time for choas its only a few months?

IIRC, three Black Crusades were aimed at Cadia, while the others were just battering rams Abaddon used to get out to achieve some objective of his own, like getting Drach'nyen. Also, the result of the actual campaign to decide the Black Crusade was a win for Chaos and failure for the Imperium, but GW gave them a partial victory because the Eldar did one of their objectives for them.

The time for the Chaos Marines could be millenia or days. They don't seem to age, regardless.

As for the war of attrition, the Imperium can't afford one without weakening against the Orks, Nids or Necrons.

Well, as I said before, Cadia is one of the most important worlds in the entire Imperium. Losing it would not be an option, since it would leave the Imperium exposed. They have won vicious wars of attrition before, like on Armageddon, which was a minor victory against an enemy who was using the same tactic against them. Chaos cannot afford such a war.

Furthermore, it takes vast amounts of time for the the CSM to reinforce. The call for reinforcements could linger in the Warp for centuries before it was received. For all the traitors inside the Eye know, Abbadon could have conquered Cadia by now.

And the situation with the Orks, Nids and Crons is not critical. In my opinion, the biggest threat are the Orks, since the major Hive Fleets have splintered and the Necrons are too few in number to incite a massive battle with the Imperium. They mostly excell at raiding and conquering worlds here and there according to new fluff. And a war of attrition is pretty much the only tactic the Imperium uses.

I agree that losing Cadia isn't an option, but placing nukes at strategic points along fault lines in the planet's crust certainly is.

Durza wrote:I agree that losing Cadia isn't an option, but placing nukes at strategic points along fault lines in the planet's crust certainly is.

Well, you got me on that, but I think they never have Exterminatused planets with a very high value to the Imperium. The Cadian military is arguably the best in the whole Imperial Guard, with all their training and experience. And if that is not reason enough, they would only buy a little more time if they decided to Exterminatus the living daylights out of the Cadian system, because next time the forces of chaos attacked, it would be a free system for them and they would get the foothold in the Materium they are so eager to get.

They already have a foothold on Cadia though. The Imperium only has the advantage in the sky. If they bombard the planet enough to kill all the Chaos there, it'd likely render the planet uninhabitable anyway, so why not deny Chaos the chance to turn in into a stronghold?

Durza wrote:They already have a foothold on Cadia though. The Imperium only has the advantage in the sky. If they bombard the planet enough to kill all the Chaos there, it'd likely render the planet uninhabitable anyway, so why not deny Chaos the chance to turn in into a stronghold?

But if they wanted to drive the Chaos back by bombing them, they could just bomb the most crucial areas where they are most entrenched, and then liberate the world using infantry, like they did on Armageddon.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Durza wrote:They already have a foothold on Cadia though. The Imperium only has the advantage in the sky. If they bombard the planet enough to kill all the Chaos there, it'd likely render the planet uninhabitable anyway, so why not deny Chaos the chance to turn in into a stronghold?

But if they wanted to drive the Chaos back by bombing them, they could just bomb the most crucial areas where they are most entrenched, and then liberate the world using infantry, like they did on Armageddon.

The 13. Black Crusade backgroundbook elaborates on the situation within the Cadian Gate. The Imperial Fleet, while probably still stronger than the remains of the chaos armada, got savaged when it drove off Abaddon's blackstone fortress. Depending on how strong the chaos foothold on Cadia is ( ground to space batteries, captured fortresses and the like ) there might not be sufficient fleet elements left for an effective and save orbital bombardment.
In such a situation it might be better to conserve ressources and the current advantage in space ( that is, preventing chaos from reinforcing their own groundtroops just as the forces of order are prevented from doing the same by the summoned warpstorms ) than to risk what is left.
Exterminatus is equaly not an option. Abaddon did not dare to destroy Cadia with his planetkiller, something he could have easily done during the initial invasion, so i doubt that the imperial commanders there would be more reckless.
One should also keep in mind that simply abandoning Cadia, by declaring exterminatus, would be a huge blow to imperial moral.

I'd imagine that if they do ever force Abaddon off Cadia, he'll throw a hissy fit and fire the Planet Killer at it out of sheer annoyance, then ragequit.

He will claim weighted dice and pout until his next amazing crusade objective idea.

Abaddon's ponytail lets him inflict 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 SD attacks in addition to his normal attacks

You can't just destroy Cadia if you're the Imperium. It's the only stronghold at the biggest bottle neck Chaos Marines face. Without it there, they could just go through the empty space. It's much harder to run a blockade with ships without an actual planet or rather system to have as the hard point...I mean, star forts work but they're not nearly as good as star forts + planets.

I think Abaddon would be satisfied with destroying Cadia but the problem is the Planet Killer can't just zoom up and do it. He has to cripple all the ships defending it first or he'd lose the planet killer because...It's not good at space battle at all, it's a big clumsy but insanely huge gun. It needs a massive fleet in support to get where it needs to go whenever there's resistance.

The true pimp of the chaos forces is Ahriman. That man gets gak done. Chaos is all like "Hey man, we got some of this lovely corruption and gak going on over here, you want some?" and he just rolls his eyes, puts on his playlist, and invades the webway.

You don't mess with the guy who has remained untainted for 10k years and still has his sanity.

Is Ahriman actually still untainted though? Or does Tzeentch just let him think he is?

Don't get me wrong, Ahriman's one of my favourite characters. I'd love for him to still be untainted, and possibly have some sort of redemption story in the future.

BrainDeleted wrote:
I think Abaddon would be satisfied with destroying Cadia but the problem is the Planet Killer can't just zoom up and do it. He has to cripple all the ships defending it first or he'd lose the planet killer because...It's not good at space battle at all, it's a big clumsy but insanely huge gun. It needs a massive fleet in support to get where it needs to go whenever there's resistance.

Destroying Cadia would also ( possibly ) destroy the largest stable route out of the Eye of Terror. While the Despoiler is most certainly insane he is not stupid.