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How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

The loss of his arms has clouded Abbaddon's better judgment.

The Crusader wrote:How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

And what makes you think he is sane/rational?

Last time i checked the 12. Black Crusade happened far away from Cadia and the 13. Black Crusade is going quite well.
Whatever the Despoiler plans, atm it looks as if he has a real chance to succeed.

He is very silly... and he tells bad jokes.

I thought the invasion of Cadia is a necessity for Chaos to get a foothold OUT of the Eye of Terror. Establishing a stronghold planet anywhere else in the proximity to the Eye of Terror for Chaos to make their raids and invasions would be almost impossible with Cadia breathing down their necks.
Ergo, it would seem taking hold of the most valuable planet in the region would seem a task worth undertaking.

His failure to do so at least 12 times is a different matter though.

If you read the fiction the books all say the Black Crusade is doing quite well.

The Crusader wrote:How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

You're assuming that Cadia itself was under direct assault and was intended to be taken rather than merely bypassed each time, and that, at last count, the forces of Chaos were ascendent on Cadia. Each of Abaddon's crusades has been building on the previous ones, becoming more and more devastating, but they have not had the aim of destroying the Imperium utterly and reaching Terra with each one, that Black Crusade has yet to come.

Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

CuddlySquig wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

The true result was that the BC was a total success.

Also I'm sure that the constant death and horrible pain these crusades cost please the chaos gods to no end. I'm sure they will get bored of this stalemate though and throw abbadon a bone to give him that final nudge he needs.

It has been retconned by GW that all the preceding Black Crusades were a master plan by Abaddon to drain the Imperium's resources so that they wouldn't be able to resist the 13th. Though yeah, the Black Crusades results have been lacking to say the least. He still hasn't moved past Cadia yet, and it's total stalemate there. Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

Anyway, the Cadian PDF doesn't have hundreds of billions. The entire population of Cadia is only around 1 billion with 75% of the population under arms, so about 750,000,000 Cadian Interior Guard/Youth Army/Shock Troops/Kasrkin

Harriticus wrote:I Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

How much do you know about the Storm of Chaos campaign?

Another thing that nudges my mind is that Abaddon still isn't a daemon prince.

purplefood wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

The true result was that the BC was a total success.

Having a slight control on the ground but zero control in space isn't much of a success, bombardment and lack of supplies will end the forces on the ground.

Harriticus wrote:It has been retconned by GW that all the preceding Black Crusades were a master plan by Abaddon to drain the Imperium's resources so that they wouldn't be able to resist the 13th. Though yeah, the Black Crusades results have been lacking to say the least. He still hasn't moved past Cadia yet, and it's total stalemate there. Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

Anyway, the Cadian PDF doesn't have hundreds of billions. The entire population of Cadia is only around 1 billion with 75% of the population under arms, so about 750,000,000 Cadian Interior Guard/Youth Army/Shock Troops/Kasrkin

Still, 750 million soldiers thats not including tanks and air support is one massive army. You also have to remember that there are several Marine Chapters supporting the Cadian gate along with other Guard regiments. According to Grey Knight books most of the Grey Knight force is also supporting Cadia.

Oh and there is the biggest battle fleet the Imperium can muster up in space.

Very

People got to remember though that the Forces of Chaos after the Heresy, lost most of their planets capable of mass weapons production, and basically been force to scavge for supplys to even begin a large scal attack on the IOM.

He's not silly, its not his fault Creed keeps sending him letter baneblades and showing up uninvited.

It may be his bad habit of killing anyone who looks at him.

Kind of makes it hard to find decent advisors.

This is why it is well past time for a saner, smarter, more powerful person to take over.

DOOMRIDER FOR WARMASTER!

Here we have a man who literally RIDES DOOM, I mean that's gotta be better than having a big catchers mitt and a really hard to spell sword.

Look at it the other way. He hasn't failed 13 times. He has found 13 ways not to invade cadia.

I personally don't understand all of the Abbadon hate, in my opinion he has been rather successful. There have been 13 black crusades, but not all were meant to destroy the imperium. The 12th, I believe, was to capture the blackstone fortresses in the gothic sector and was a success. If I remember correctly, the initial black crusades were mainly to unite the legions and stop them from destroying each other. In addition, the reason that the Cadian Gate is so well protected is because it is the only stable route out of the Eye of Terror. The simple fact that the imperium must expend so many resources (entire battlefleets, billions of guardsmen, 25+ space marine chapters) just to keep Abbadon penned in the Eye tells me he is doing something right.

its mostly because Haters gotta hate.

Its the same reason people make fun of Roboat Girlyman and Papa Smurf.


Abbaddon and Papa Smurf get alot of hate, and yet they actually have pretty solid rules in the game.

Come on, now; we know why the hate: it's the pony tail.

its not a pony tail.

its a carefully groomed Hair Squig

It's a ponytail that defies the laws of gravity.

CuddlySquig wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

The Black Crusades were not simply wars of attrition, and they had specific objectives which were usually attained (e.g. securing the blackstone fortresses), they left off the 13th on a cliffhanger in favor of the forces of Chaos.

And what the forces of Chaos may deem victory is not always necessarily what it may seem to be...

Again, realm of of the unpossible here.

But they were all conventional wars. And Abaddon cannot replace the cream of his forces. Abaddon is one of those characters who is pumped up to be cool, but when you think about it rationally his whole concept starts to fall apart. No wonder he's not a daemon prince.

There are no laws in the Eye of Terror!

CuddlySquig wrote:But they were all conventional wars. And Abaddon cannot replace the cream of his forces. Abaddon is one of those characters who is pumped up to be cool, but when you think about it rationally his whole concept starts to fall apart. No wonder he's not a daemon prince.

His application is being held up by paperwork, and you know there's paperwork in Hell.

He's been offered several times and has refused several times.

Noticed how the Daemon Primarches don't do so much anymore? That's because it's hard for Daemons to leave the Eye and remain corporeal and stable.

I get it: he doesn't want a daemonhood to get in the way of his career.