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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/08 23:36:33
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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gorgon wrote:Of course I'd say Genestealer Cults. And honestly, I think that could happen...someday. There's a retro trend in the studio now, and GC are already well-developed. Getting written out of the Ichar IV story in the current Tyranid codex isn't a good sign, however.
I'd also like to see Space Slann, the faction that first interested me back in RT. And of course LatD.
I don't think we will see any form of "cultist" again in 40K tbh.
The term doesn't fit the more kid-ified mainstream facelift that 40K has been given. Cults murdering, enslaving, worshipping daemonsm, etc, is not something GW wants kids talking about and risking parent ire.
Likewise the Imperium used to seem much more ominous and dark imho.
You used to barely be able to read more then a few lines without mention of "exterminatus" and the killing of whole populations on a whim of some Imperial general, etc. Sounded a little too "holocaust" me thinks. Do the newer marine books mention it at all and with the detail and frequency thet used to?
I think it the same reason that the SOB have not been pursued: the religious extremism, burning of heretics, killing in the na,e of faith aspect perhaps.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/09 00:59:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 00:12:49
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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CT GAMER wrote:The term doesn't fit the more kid-ified mainstream facelift that 40K has been given. Cults corrupting, enslaving and overthrowing people is not something GW wants kids talking about and risking parent ire.
Are you aware of the Grey Knights and Dark Eldar? They're at least as far from "kidified mainstream" as chaos cultists. There is plenty of non-kid friendly armies and fluff in 40k, it's just not apparent on its face. Chaos cultists would be no different, to the casual observer they're simply humans on the Chaos side. That said, I simply can't understand people who love genestealers but rag on the Squats. For every Land Train the squats have the Genestealers had a "Transport Limousine." Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/09 00:14:34
text removed by Moderation team. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 00:34:34
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Fixture of Dakka
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Murdock129 wrote:Now, Warhammer has changed and evolved a lot, and some things have been lost along the way, but as both the Chaos Dwarfs and the Storm of Magic book have proved, it doesn't have to be forever.
Now some of the old forces, e.g. Slann I don't think should make a comeback, but others really deserve it in my view
So what forces would you like to see back?
For me, in 40K I'd love to see revamped Squats, not Demiurg, Squats, serious non-cartoony Squats, Mantic did their Forgefather's beautifully, why couldn't GW do some amazing Space Dwarfs.
Praetorians, they contrasted with the Grimdark setting, but in a nice way, they weren't as serious as the other armies, they were only a minor part and the models did look beautiful
For Fantasy first and foremost are the forces of Kislev, Boris Ursus is one of my all time favorite models and I'm still desperately trying to get hold of him, then if you expanded that model set a bit and brought back the old models, I'd sell my other armies for a huge Kislev force
Secondly and close behind are the Zoats, now yes there were Zoats in the SoM book, but I'd love to see a contingent of them, or some models at the very least. A druid, a few warriors, maybe some kind of giant monster
Thirdly, Fimir, now I know one appeared in the SoM and more are rumored for Monstrous Arcana, but again I'd love a full army of one of the few completely warhammer forces
What about you?
Me?
I would go back to the old RT era books, revamp the rules for every unit from Commisar Training Squads, to Khorne Stormtroopa's, to Chaos Squats, and open the doors of imagination by letting them loose as options
As to Fantasy? 3d Edition had several operational armies that have plenty of stuff that was never accessed.
Border Princes was only one of maybe 100+ options. Tilia, and the Mercianry forces, Lustria, Araby, Etc.etc.etc... There are literally unlimited choices.
THIER ISSUE?
Finecrap, pricing, and the head in the sand stance on thier own companies products past.
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 00:52:47
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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biccat wrote:CT GAMER wrote:The term doesn't fit the more kid-ified mainstream facelift that 40K has been given. Cults corrupting, enslaving and overthrowing people is not something GW wants kids talking about and risking parent ire.
Are you aware of the Grey Knights and Dark Eldar? They're at least as far from "kidified mainstream" as chaos cultists.
There is plenty of non-kid friendly armies and fluff in 40k, it's just not apparent on its face. Chaos cultists would be no different, to the casual observer they're simply humans on the Chaos side.
If you say the word "cult" to the averge person they have knowledge of the word and most likely a negative association with it. Not something GW marketing wants kids throwing around and potentially turning off parents with.
Yes GW still contains elements of such things, but the more grim elements of the 40K universe used to be a little more at the forefront, and now are often glossed over.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
biccat wrote:
Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.
And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...
A game of 40K featuring a genestealer cult force would represeng a time when they have been force to fight for some reason (often rooted out by the Imeperial forces and put to the sword). A little imagination helps when considering why things might be fighting...
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/09 01:00:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 01:12:04
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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I would love to see Albion explored a lot more - I like the idea of a human barbarian/celtic faction. It would be a rich source of fluff and imagery. I'm thinking chariots, druids, giants, stone circles, blue warpaint... Equal parts Conan and Braveheart, with a bit of Slaine thrown in for good measure. There's a wealth of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon mythology to draw on.
I would envision Warhammer Armies: Albion as lightly-armoured hit-and-run army that packs a serious punch in CC, and would be magic heavy. Wild and savage warriors lead by druids tearing out of the forest to ambush invaders, that sort of vibe.
I'd sell all my other armies to start collecting Albion if GW ever got round to it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/09 01:13:44
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 01:12:30
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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CT GAMER wrote:If you say the word "cult" to the averge person they have knowledge of the word and most likely a negative association with it. Not something GW marketing wants kids throwing around and potentially turning off parents with.
But when little Jimmy yells "Burn the Heretic!" or "Death to the False Emperor," or "Blood for the Blood God" it's not going to turn off parents?
Fact is, 40k is reasonably grimdark. Not as grimdark as it used to be, but still pretty grimdark.
CT GAMER wrote:biccat wrote:Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.
And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...
Except Necrons could be an army. Genestealers aren't a stand-alone group, they're a subgroup of Tyranids, who are already represented in the game.
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text removed by Moderation team. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 01:19:54
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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biccat wrote:
Fact is, 40k is reasonably grimdark. Not as grimdark as it used to be, but still pretty grimdark.
Yeah, thats what I said.
Except Necrons could be an army. Genestealers aren't a stand-alone group, they're a subgroup of Tyranids, who are already represented in the game.
If your logic was used we would have one marine codex nd no chapter specific ones...
Genestealer cultists have less in common with tyranids then vanilla marines and all the specialty marine codexes have in common yet we gets tons of marine codexes...
Cultist armies would add some needed variety, flavor and modeling opportunities to the game/hobby. Far more then yet another marine codex. But then we all know that such things are not really what motivates GW in regards to 40K. So like I said: I doubt we will ever see a cult codex of any kind...
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/09 01:22:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 01:31:19
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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CT GAMER wrote:biccat wrote:
Fact is, 40k is reasonably grimdark. Not as grimdark as it used to be, but still pretty grimdark.
Yeah, thats what I said.
Well, then I agree.
But that doesn't mean parents would freak out and GW would lose their entire market if "Chaos Cultists" suddenly appeared on the store shelf.
CT GAMER wrote:If your logic was used we would have one marine codex nd no chapter specific ones...
A man can dream...
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text removed by Moderation team. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 19:33:09
Subject: Re:Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Incubus
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Competitive Tau
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 20:45:03
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Automatically Appended Next Post:
biccat wrote:
Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.
And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...
A game of 40K featuring a genestealer cult force would represeng a time when they have been force to fight for some reason (often rooted out by the Imeperial forces and put to the sword). A little imagination helps when considering why things might be fighting...
FWIW, Genestealer cults have certainly been involved in large engagements. See Ichar IV.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 21:21:30
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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I don't think any should return and it would probably be best if they dropped a few more. GW doesn't seem to be able or willing to support all of thier armies for each edition. So it would make sense to only have about eight or so armies per game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 21:29:28
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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Crimson Devil wrote:I don't think any should return and it would probably be best if they dropped a few more. GW doesn't seem to be able or willing to support all of thier armies for each edition. So it would make sense to only have about eight or so armies per game.
Right, so lets drop all the non-vanilla marines for starters....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/09 21:29:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 21:58:30
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 22:12:51
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Oberleutnant
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Justification already exists for the use of Genestealer cults as an army, and has done for years. For that matter most of the old flavour had justification for its existence. Mountains of fluff, most of it substantially better thought out than the Ward-ese gibber.
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"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/09 22:16:06
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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Crimson Devil wrote:I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.
I did quote you, was it it really that hard to figure out?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/10 00:10:41
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot
Right behind you...
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Adeptus Arbites and Catachans.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/10 01:38:37
There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/10 00:19:40
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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CT GAMER wrote:Crimson Devil wrote:I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.
I did quote you, was it it really that hard to figure out?
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/10 03:43:13
Subject: Re:Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot
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I would love to see a return of the Genestealer cults. GS are advance scouts for the nids, just do what they did in the old books. Infest a planet, start up a 'cult of the 6 armed emperor' and the Patriarch sends out a psychic signal to the hive fleets that 'here be food'. Whats so complicated about that? Think of all the different modeling options that can be used.
I would also like to see a Lost and the Dammed kind of renegade PDF,IG,chaos cults kind of codex. The only problem with both of these suggestions is that you couldn't sell a entire model line and there would be alot of scratch building and converting, so the bean counters would consider them a failure and not making there money back.
Sadly this is how GW operates and has for a long time now. But hey one could wish eh? Just like I wish every friday that the 6 numbers I have picked are the winning lotto numbers....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/10 04:14:29
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Zealous Shaolin
England
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Pumpkin wrote:40K:-
Genestealer Cults
The Lost and the Damned
Just to clarify, I'd love for LatD to have their own codex, but I'd prefer for the GS Cult to be added as part of the Tyranids codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/10 04:25:43
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Agile Revenant Titan
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Squats!
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Eldar -5000 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/10 06:54:48
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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biccat wrote:CT GAMER wrote:If you say the word "cult" to the averge person they have knowledge of the word and most likely a negative association with it. Not something GW marketing wants kids throwing around and potentially turning off parents with.
But when little Jimmy yells "Burn the Heretic!" or "Death to the False Emperor," or "Blood for the Blood God" it's not going to turn off parents?
Silly man. Didn't your parents ever lull you to sleep with "Blood for the Blood God" when you were a young'un? Perfectly acceptable.
CT GAMER wrote:biccat wrote:Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.
And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...
Except Necrons could be an army. Genestealers aren't a stand-alone group, they're a subgroup of Tyranids, who are already represented in the game.
Well, the Genestealers have had a LOT of retconning in their days, and cult forces (both GS and Chaos) worked thematically in both a "they've found us - get the weapons!" and in a "we're taking over, our Coup starts now! - wake the sleepers!" sense. I understand that Humans are pretty well represented in the game as well. Which one of their forces should we keep?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 16:59:16
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Powerful Irongut
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Because GW don't obsess over subgroups all the time, what with there being about six different Space Marine Codex's
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Grimstonefire wrote:I am feeling quite confident that by this time next year I will be holding a new CD model in my hand (07/07/10). Someone can sig that if they want.  |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 17:37:12
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Crimson Devil wrote:CT GAMER wrote:Crimson Devil wrote:I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.
I did quote you, was it it really that hard to figure out?
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.
I think you should both be nice to each other.
Else something bad might happen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 19:05:20
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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^Like!
I don't the derision for Genestealer cults. What would be good is a big old book of cults, be they chaotic, secessionist, genestealer or otherwise. That would be way cool.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 19:08:13
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
The Mojave desert
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Tek wrote:^Like!
I don't the derision for Genestealer cults. What would be good is a big old book of cults, be they chaotic, secessionist, genestealer or otherwise. That would be way cool.
Seconded!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 19:49:45
Subject: Re:Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell
Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.
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40K Genestealer Cults - I'd get one, no doubt, do the limos and a good mix of figs, mix with Imperial Guard, would be awesome. Squats - In a game that is basically at its heart fantasy in space, the lack of Dwarves is odd, I liked the range, and the concepts they had, I really can't understand what they gained from canning the army. Anyone who suggests game balance could be effected by too many armies, pause for a moment, consider we are talking about 40K, now.. facepalm. Adepticus Mechanicus - Anyone else still hurting that they teased us with rules for this army, some what.. fourteen/fifteen? years ago. Where is it, its an great idea, could ally with Guard or Marines, (on a collecting level if not an actual rules level) and has the same advantage for Chaos players that they can make up a Chaos version. Mercenaries - Thanks to various novels, and short pieces of info there are a few races I'd love to see turn up, as mercs, allies whatever. Bargesi, Luxoal (no idea on thos two spellings) to name a couple. Fantasy Chaos - Aye, I can sorta get the three army books on one level, but I still prefer Chaos the old way. My suggestion is, a fourth book using Archaon as the poster boy, and based around the idea of a unified Chaos army. Drop some units so the other three books have a couple of special things unique to them, and allow folks to field a combined force if they so wish. Fimir - Okay needs a fluff change regarding one area, but then GW has done plenty of that over the years anyways, they where a odd and unique race for GW, and my Heroquest game is pointing at the contents and making rude gestures at the fact they currently don't exist in Warhammer.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/11 19:50:45
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 19:51:15
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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Crimson Devil wrote:
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.
I could care less...
You are free to post whatever you want, that is between you and the mods.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/11 22:10:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 20:59:50
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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CT GAMER wrote:Crimson Devil wrote:
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.
I could care less...
You mean couldn't. Unless you are saying that you do care at least a little bit in which case that's OK.
As for my thoughts on the topic at hand, I'd like to see the Imperial Guard, Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus put into one book (Codex: Imperium), then Chaos be expanded so that it includes cultists and traitor guard (again in one book).
Genestealer cults would be best as an inclusion in the Tyranid codex as their fluff indicates that they are an infiltration force, though they will fight if they have no option of remaining hidden.
Squats I'm not too fussed about. With most of the races showing vast levels of technological power I don't see how you could put Space Dwarfs into that whilst maintaining their expected fluff (master engineers) without making their technology so powerful that they could easily wipe everyone else out.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 21:26:32
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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I've said this once but it is worth saying again Valhallan Ice Warriors. I know they add nothing to the game but to me they would be the only reason to start a guard army. If only there were good plastics.
Even if Forgeworld decided to do some resin models that would probably be enough for me too.
That or Genestealer cults ...
I would say Exodite Eldar would also be good. Really depends on the art style they have for them. Not sure a flower power girl warriors really flies in the grimdark.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/11 22:03:42
Subject: Races/Armies that should return to Warhammer
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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A Town Called Malus wrote:CT GAMER wrote:Crimson Devil wrote:
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.
I could care less...
You mean couldn't. Unless you are saying that you do care at least a little bit in which case that's OK.
“I could care less” is one of those idiomatic expressions, particularly in American English, that doesn’t necessarily mean what it says. There are numerous suggestions for the origin of the phrase. The most recent of these is that “I could care less” is a corruption of the term “I couldn’t care less,” possibly first used in the UK in the 1940s. By the 1960s, Americans had adopted “I could care less.” Was it laziness, poor hearing or deliberate irony?
Many contend it was laziness, much like the phrase “a hot cup of coffee,” changing to, "who wants a hot cup?" Most people would prefer to have a cup of hot coffee, or eat their cake and have it too. Simple reversals or omissions of words can result in phrases like “I could care less,” when what you really mean is you don’t care at all.
Now, if the English lesson is over then maybe we could get back to the topic at hand.
A number of cult codexes are available on the web, and a new one pops up now and then, but I don't think we will see an official one. Maybe GW will do a WD dex at least, though I think even that is unlikely...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/11 22:12:32
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