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WS:5 and Sv:2+ for lychguard

I:10 for preatorians



But we all know fluff =/= stats

Personally, I think these units need 3 things.

Like others said 2 base attacks should be standard. For an elite CC type unit, having 1 base attack makes them..... not an elite CC unit. *shrug*

Next I feel they should be able to mix their weapon options. When the entire squad has to take all the same weapons it limits what they can do and what they can actually bring to the table. This means we aren't just talking about Praetorians and Lychguard but actually talking about each of them plus each weapon set. If they could mix their sets they would bring a lot more utility to the field.

Now I know everyone is saying to give them 2+ armor but I actually disagree. That is something that shouldn't really be that common in the Necron army in my opinion. However I do think they should have the Ever Living special rule (give or take as I don't know the exact wording) so even if the entire squad falls then they could still get back up. Makes them more resilient while keeping with the "necron theme".

Those are just my thoughts anyways and I'm often wrong and crazy. >.> <.<

You wouldn't be wrong, but the Lychguard entry makes a point to state how armored and tough these guys are. They actually wear armor on top of their metal bodies. A 2+ makes a bit more sense as their fuff only describes their hardiness.

As for praetorians... These guys never slept. At all. They roamed the galaxy for 60 million years and have a power weapn to show for it. Great. Not WS5. Not 2 attacks. While they are very capable of killing things, their fluff indicates a much more powerful unit than what is presented. Heck, I'd take both for a five point increase.

While fluff doesn't always equal rules, there really isn't a reason that it shouldn't. If the fluff is so ott that the model would break the game (like the emperor) that you would have to tone the model down to be both reasonably priced and not OP, you need to rewrite the fluff.

I believe the armor and toughness of the Lychguard is more shown through the higher toughness than through the actual armor save through I can see how it could be seen that. I would still say they should stick with a 3+ save since most of the HQ choices have that and only a few have the 2+.

About Praetorians, these guys just confuse me honestly. Their wargear seems to say they should be in close combat but everything else about them seems to me that they should be jumping around harassing the enemy with strong shooting. Maybe a change in their stat line isn't the answer but a change in war gear might be worth looking into.

I'm sticking with what I said earlier through; 2 base attacks for Praetorians, ever living and the ability to mix weapons for both units. I will even throw in Fearless or at least stubborn for Lychguard.

All the Praetorians need is the +1 attack, it makes sense from a fluff perspective and would balance them in game. The Lychguard need stubborn, and MAYBE a 2+ save.

When I saw the initial leak for Praetorians, I mistook their Covenant Rod for a S6 AP1 weapon. I thought it made them pretty cool and unique, but still suffering from close tank removal problems.

I think I read in the codex about how one of these 5/5/+3 necrons were frustrating to work with because they take so long so they can have their perfect strike. I guess that could be represented with increased to hit or wounding rolls or re-rolls. I'd rather think of creative ways of improving them, than making them closer to quasi-analogs in other codexs, but it is a game with small limits.

i think the lychguard and praetorians as already stated need ever living maybe just a base 3+ invulnerable save or armor save with no way to negate it that would have been explained in the fluff. also ever living should be 4+ and 3+ with res orbs and for special characters it should be 3+ and 2+ because what i see in the fluff is K Kahn nearly chops obyron from shoulder to waist, obyron heals and trys to hit K Kahn and fails and after hours of suffering hundreds wounds that would have killed a carnifex vargard obyron has not a blemish on his dainty frame and chops deep into K Kahn's shoulder not my name is vargard obyron and I can't survive being punched in the face by by a space marine squad and sergeant because my reanimation protocols are not working well today. the point of necrons is that they're like the third bad terminator, minus the hotness. got a hard as metal body underneath and a liquid metal body which can be cut in half and re form, shattered and frozen by liquid nitrogen and reform, and need to be dropped into lava to be killed. all I'm seeing is a robot that can be killed by a lucky grot and to be expected result with reanimation protocols roll. the fact is that to even make rp have an even chance of succeeding you need to have spent what 45 points at least on a lord with orb? rp seems great until the whole unit gets killed or like 19 crons get killed and only 6 stand up ( the normal necron assault result) in the fluff necrons have to be chopped into thousands of pieces to be kept down not just have an arm blown off. regardless ever living rp is always going to be useless in assault because you will die every turn before you can hit because your initiative is too low and then stand up each turn (maybe) so you can be killed again. the rp roll should be done right at the end of the action in which the unit dies (action being like a daemon prince killing a necron overlord or unit 1 finished rolling for its wounds for unit two but before unit two hits back. but not in shooting because shooting can be happening at the same time (well not in the game but ideally it would be) and the rp should work even if the whole unit was destroyed because it doesn't matter according to fluff whether there are any crons left in the unit because the tomb still knows where it is and so it can still get the cron to put its self back together. rant over and sorry for bumping a kinda oldish topic

well that looks so epic that i wish gw would make praetorians actually good so i could make a triarch themed army (hopefully the picture has posted)

ok stop coplainging you Necrons just got your update while us Chaos fans are still waiting and you just got a whole bunch of new models........have fun for the next 5 years

Nemesor wrote:i think the lychguard and praetorians as already stated need ever living maybe just a base 3+ invulnerable save or armor save with no way to negate it that would have been explained in the fluff. also ever living should be 4+ and 3+ with res orbs and for special characters it should be 3+ and 2+ because what i see in the fluff is K Kahn nearly chops obyron from shoulder to waist, obyron heals and trys to hit K Kahn and fails and after hours of suffering hundreds wounds that would have killed a carnifex vargard obyron has not a blemish on his dainty frame and chops deep into K Kahn's shoulder not my name is vargard obyron and I can't survive being punched in the face by by a space marine squad and sergeant because my reanimation protocols are not working well today. the point of necrons is that they're like the third bad terminator, minus the hotness. got a hard as metal body underneath and a liquid metal body which can be cut in half and re form, shattered and frozen by liquid nitrogen and reform, and need to be dropped into lava to be killed. all I'm seeing is a robot that can be killed by a lucky grot and to be expected result with reanimation protocols roll. the fact is that to even make rp have an even chance of succeeding you need to have spent what 45 points at least on a lord with orb? rp seems great until the whole unit gets killed or like 19 crons get killed and only 6 stand up ( the normal necron assault result) in the fluff necrons have to be chopped into thousands of pieces to be kept down not just have an arm blown off. regardless ever living rp is always going to be useless in assault because you will die every turn before you can hit because your initiative is too low and then stand up each turn (maybe) so you can be killed again. the rp roll should be done right at the end of the action in which the unit dies (action being like a daemon prince killing a necron overlord or unit 1 finished rolling for its wounds for unit two but before unit two hits back. but not in shooting because shooting can be happening at the same time (well not in the game but ideally it would be) and the rp should work even if the whole unit was destroyed because it doesn't matter according to fluff whether there are any crons left in the unit because the tomb still knows where it is and so it can still get the cron to put its self back together. rant over and sorry for bumping a kinda oldish topic

rp like that would be entirely overpowered. Double or triple the cost of everything with RP and you can play with rules like that.

the rules are standard 5+ or 4+ regardless of how the wound was suffered. A scratch from an guardsman rifle butt is the same as being blown to oblivion by a demolisher cannon. While a cron might be able to repair from even the most catastrophic damage it might take time. Getting back up in game terms requires very quick repairs and sometimes the damage is just too great repair that quickly and rejoin the fight.

Once again fluff =/= rules, or else every army would be nearly unstoppable.

ohh jeeze. Okay, right now (provided the whole unit is not wiped) Lychguard already have the equivalent of a 3+ Invuln with RP against AP3 or better weapons. 4+ shield and 5+ Reanimation means 1/2 + (1/2*1/3) survive == 1/3 dead. Couple this with toughness 5 (how do you kill termis? Make them take a ton of saves!) to reduce the incoming damage and they are much more durable than people give them credit for.

I think a bump to WS 5 is reasonable, but anything else makes them an auto-include.

Triarch's essentially come with a 5+ invuln from their RP. What they need is an additional base attack. Jump Pack 2+ T5 models is a bit much, don't we think? Giving them Everliving is another idea that does not break them, but helps.