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I'd like to say the average player does not have a forge world model, nor do they have a forge world book. With that being said, some guy shows up with a foreign model listed in a book said average person doesn't own.

What I'm getting at is GW could mention forgeworld in their codeci, or feature painted FW models saying (this is the _____, look for it in imperial armour number ___!)

Don't most tournies list the codex that are valid? Ask first, then play for FW specific units.

I thought the only models that had "experimental" rules were the ones that aren't in an IA book army list.

I'll happily play opposite FW models, as they are generally gorgeous to look at I have a few of my own, and they've never been refused playtime, but i use mine to rep actual codex entries, not IA units..

The FW rules are more of a 'don't assume i will play vs them, but i probably will'. I'm far more likely to allow FW rules if the other player actually has the FW model, not a proxy/beercan with paint on/ regular model that is more uber for less points in the IA book...

Pickup games - Varies... depends on the person and what unit they want to use. Blight drones are a nono, for me, for example, but FW ork units like Mega Dredds and Grot Tanks are a definite yes..

Tournaments - Rarely an issue. IA rules are generally not included in tournaments i play in, but the models are welcome, used as something from the codex. (my Nurgle Daemon Prince sees action mostly as Ku'gath, for example..

Ehh i want to do this in a friendly game i have the rules of blightdrone i want to use, though i dont have a model or reprisentation for one, because its seems decent to play with who wouldnt fight a puss bomb

Ascalam wrote:I
Pickup games - Varies... depends on the person and what unit they want to use. Blight drones are a nono, for me, for example, but FW ork units like Mega Dredds and Grot Tanks are a definite yes..

Tournaments - Rarely an issue. IA rules are generally not included in tournaments i play in, but the models are welcome, used as something from the codex. (my Nurgle Daemon Prince sees action mostly as Ku'gath, for example..

Out of curiosity, why the no on the Blight Drone? It seems like one of the less abusive IA models out there...

And yeah, I use my Big Squiggoth to proxy has a Battlewagon with Deffrolla pretty much all the time as well.

For it's points it seemed awfully potent to me.

Didn't help that the last person i played with has 3 hello kitty bobbleheads proxying them...

Big squiggoth as BW i can definitely see

Ascalam wrote:For it's points it seemed awfully potent to me.

Didn't help that the last person i played with has 3 hello kitty bobbleheads proxying them...

Big squiggoth as BW i can definitely see

TBH it's just a cheaper Defiler that trades away CC prowess and a point in BS for a smaller profile. Can't see why that'd be much more potent than a defiler.



Back on topic:
I'd allow my opponent to play with FW models, but if I'm going to a Tournament I want to know if they're allowed or not first, so I can plan accordingly.

FW produces a lot of things and some are included in GW codices.
The IG for example could field FW :
- manticore, Hydra , Vanquisher, etc
based on the IG codex. No reason to rage about those.
Same for upgrade kits like extra armor, iconography, PA Mk 2-6, etc. fielded using GW codices, it doesn't matter if the model is partially or whole from FW.
Whenever the rules as written in 40k codices are used, I would just play the game.
Pure FW products, rules and model from FW aren't a problem if known beforehand. Its a hobby where consent is king.
It may need a bit more effort put into a game, like looking up the rules of a model. So what? Providing a quote to back up your claim in a debate at dakka takes some time too. And you also can't foresee what someone is posting next at dakka.....

DPBellathrom wrote:well if I'm playing a 1000pts game and some donkey cave throws a warhound titan onto the field I'm not going to be happy

Well, fortunately, using titans isn't legal in 40K even if you're using IA rules.


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Necroshea wrote:Ah, now that interesting. I could have sworn I saw some sort of watermark faux stamp that said experimental somewhere...oh well.

Yep, that's on rules that have yet to be published and are still... experimental.


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Tarkand wrote:especially if said model happens to be better at what it does than the Codex equivalent while being cheaper (looking at you Ceastus Assault Ram).

Which codex equivalent is it better/cheaper than?


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Necroshea wrote:(this is the _____, look for it in imperial armour number ___!)

Actually, this is a legitimate problem with FW - some models have had many versions of their rules over the years and there is nowhere you can look up what the current versions are.

They tried to solve that with the IA:A books which had a big listing in the back but these were, of course, immediately out of date and they've dropped it from IA:A-2nd ed.

FW - is having a list of all your models and which book has the current rules available on the website too much to ask?

I've seen autocannon Chimeras taken in tournaments, but that upgrade's only from FW. Was the owner of the tanks pulling a fast one?
Lovely conversions, though, Combinations of Predators and Chimeras, in desert camo.

4oursword wrote:I've seen autocannon Chimeras taken in tournaments, but that upgrade's only from FW. Was the owner of the tanks pulling a fast one?
Lovely conversions, though, Combinations of Predators and Chimeras, in desert camo.

If the tournament did not allow IA rules then yes.

1hadhq wrote:FW produces a lot of things and some are included in GW codices.
The IG for example could field FW :
- manticore, Hydra , Vanquisher, etc
based on the IG codex. No reason to rage about those.
Same for upgrade kits like extra armor, iconography, PA Mk 2-6, etc. fielded using GW codices, it doesn't matter if the model is partially or whole from FW.
Whenever the rules as written in 40k codices are used, I would just play the game.
Pure FW products, rules and model from FW aren't a problem if known beforehand. Its a hobby where consent is king.
It may need a bit more effort put into a game, like looking up the rules of a model. So what? Providing a quote to back up your claim in a debate at dakka takes some time too. And you also can't foresee what someone is posting next at dakka.....

OP, Is the rage just the models(proxied for codex IG stuff), or the rules and models. I've been using FW Manticores for a while with no issue.

I play Elysian Drop Troops. Their codex allows them to take flyers in a regular 40k game. I never even try to do this, but I can see it's potential for easy abuse in a tournament.

Scott-S6 wrote:
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Tarkand wrote:especially if said model happens to be better at what it does than the Codex equivalent while being cheaper (looking at you Ceastus Assault Ram).

Which codex equivalent is it better/cheaper than?

The Caestus is essentially a Terminator Transport... much like the Land Raider.

While it is only Armor 13 in front and 11 in the back, the combination of being able to get a Cover save and having a 5+ inv save from the front make it much more resilient. The anti-melta rule is really just icing on the cake at that point. It also comes with Extra Armor, which is always nice to have on a transport.

It can carry 10 Terminator. No land raider can do that.

It can move 36'' guaranteeing that your Terminators will assault something on Turn 2, which isn't always the case with land raiders. A 36'' move is also a very powerful tool in its own right (contesting objective for one thing).This speed also make it hard for opponent to exploit its one weakness it has on a Land Raider - it's low rear armor.

The Twin-Link Magna-Melta is a frighteningly accurate and effective weapon that can hurt anything. It's perfect to crack open a transport so that your disembarked terminator can kill the troop within, certainly much more so than any weapon mounted on a Land Raider.

And while I think the ramming rule are very gimmicky and truly not that practical in game, they are still there and you may be able to put it to good use once in a while.

And with all that considered, the ram is worth 25pts less than a 'naked' Land Raider. About the only reason to take a LR over a Caestus, is that the Caetus cost a good 100$ more really.

Tarkand wrote:
The Twin-Link Magna-Melta is a frighteningly accurate and effective weapon that can hurt anything. It's perfect to crack open a transport so that your disembarked terminator can kill the

It's a blast multi-melta with an 18" range. Guess what's better than that? A bog-standard multi-melta, found on every self-respecting Land Raider.

Tarkand wrote:
And with all that considered, the ram is worth 25pts less than a 'naked' Land Raider. About the only reason to take a LR over a Caestus, is that the Caetus cost a good 100$ more really.

Sorry, but 275 isn't 25 points less that 250.

Tarkand wrote:About the only reason to take a LR over a Caestus, is that the Caetus cost a good 100$ more really.

Isn't the same pretty much true for the stormraven as well?

Not to mention that the Caestus is fast attack so you're losing a slot which is highly valuable in C:SM armies while a termie LR does not cost a slot.

And LR's are close to untouchable in CC while the caestus isn't. Etc.

This is classic "OMG the sky is falling" - same as we get every time a new codex is released. How many games have you actually played against a Caestus?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tarkand wrote:
The Twin-Link Magna-Melta is a frighteningly accurate and effective weapon that can hurt anything. It's perfect to crack open a transport so that your disembarked terminator can kill the

It's a blast multi-melta with an 18" range. Guess what's better than that? A bog-standard multi-melta, found on every self-respecting Land Raider.

Tarkand wrote:
And with all that considered, the ram is worth 25pts less than a 'naked' Land Raider. About the only reason to take a LR over a Caestus, is that the Caetus cost a good 100$ more really.

Sorry, but 275 isn't 25 points less that 250.

The Twin-Link on the Magna-Melta make it more than 66% likely to 'bulleyes' - making it more accurate than a Multi-Melta (it also comes with the Ram, no need to pay extra for it) - remember that even if it scatters a little, it is still likely to score a hit with the center hole anyway.

On the plus side tho, you made me realize that they have actually increased the Ram's cost... it used to be 225pts back when it was 'under testing'. I'll have to tell my friend who fields them, because I don't think he has IAA2 either.

That being said, I'm not quite sure 25 pts account for it... most LR will have Multi-Melta, which reduce the point difference to 15... 15pts for a vastly superior models isn't what I'd call balanced.



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Scott-S6 wrote:

Tarkand wrote:About the only reason to take a LR over a Caestus, is that the Caetus cost a good 100$ more really.

Isn't the same pretty much true for the stormraven as well?

Not to mention that the Caestus is fast attack so you're losing a slot which is highly valuable in C:SM armies while a termie LR does not cost a slot.

And LR's are close to untouchable in CC while the caestus isn't. Etc.

This is classic "OMG the sky is falling" - same as we get every time a new codex is released. How many games have you actually played against a Caestus?

Quite a few, since a guy at our FLGS has two.

Getting in CC with a Fast Skimmer that can flat out at 36'' only really happens if the other feths up.

99% of the FW stuff is fine, the biggest issue you will run into is people either having wild misconceptions of FW stuff due to ignorance of FW's offerings, people who had FW stuff misused against them (e.g. someone trying to use a Titan in a 1500pt game), or someone who just flat out cheated (yeah, my grot guided missiles totally don't need LoS and don't give you a cover save and hit on rear armor...)

Tarkand wrote:40k isn't very well balanced game to being with ... and a lot of FW stuff is downright ridiculous.

Which is the issue here, at the risk of being called a 'man baby', one of the thing I enjoy about strategy games is to pit my wit and tactical acumen against another opponent. It does take away from the fun to have someone bring a 3rd party model, even if said model is 'ok according to GW' into the game, especially if said model happens to be better at what it does than the Codex equivalent while being cheaper (looking at you Ceastus Assault Ram).

Yes, I understand it's a game you play for fun. But I play Chess for fun too, and that doesn't mean we let people move diagonally with their Towers 'just cause' either. And yes, I understand that 40k is nowhere close to being as balanced as chess and I know that going in a game... but adding FW stuff often just add an extra layer of imbalance on top of the already imbalanced cake and risk making the whole thing topple over.

So yeah, I may be a whiner here, but I'm not a big fan of FW stuff in normal games at all... even tho I do personally have some FW models myself. I usually use them in Apocalypse game (even the non-SH no GC ones, and that's it.

Most Forgeworld stuff is overcosted or underpowered, and is really just for flavor. Some things, like the Lifta-Droppa before the most recent update and the Caestus are really good, but certainly killable. Forgeworld models aren't really 3rd party, they're just another part of Games Workshop. Battle Bunkers usually sell Forgeworld stuff right next to typical GW stuff. If you really want to "test your tactical acumen" well, you should be able to test it against threats you're not used to, like Forgeworld units.

This topic has come up a few times before, but since this is a new year I'll put my once a year rant into it now and get it over with.

I will not play opposite forge world. I don't have the money to buy the models, nor do i have the money to buy the books. I won't pirate the information to be familiar with the rules, nor are the rules available in store locally. Therefore I refuse to play on an non-level playing field. If a guy came into the store with his book willing to show me the rules and such, I might give the time to read through and see if its something that is reasonable, but more often than not I would rather not play than have to go against something that isn't standard 40k. People with the money and time to put into FW can play people with similar interests, interests I don't share.

May sound a bit harsh, and while some people might say "whom am I to say he can't play with something he paid and and painted" I'm of the mind to say, "i don't care if he paid and painted, I'm playing 40k not FW and he doesn't have to play me."

If a game was already started and my opponent brought up FW rules in the middle of the game, or at that time informed me he was using those rules I would inform him that if he wanted to play with variant rules, he should have asked for consent ahead of time. I would then gather up my models and look for another game or resume painting in the painting section.

Regardless if FW books are official or not, they are still alternative rules, not standard rules. You can't force your opponent to play a game, so its only logical to inform him of your intent to use them, and have a fallback plan if he isn't ok with the use of FW.

OBV this isn't the case for tourneys. Those events almost never allow FW rules, and the ones that do can be safely avoided by people who don't want to play that type of game.

skwiff wrote:has any one here fielded a model from forgeworld in a standard 40k game, only for the other player to throw a hissy fit and rage quit from the game? I'm not talking about a major tornement here but say at a club friendly between two rival clubs or game workshops.

Is the issue with the models being proxied in or the models with using FW rules?

notabot187 wrote:This topic has come up a few times before, but since this is a new year I'll put my once a year rant into it now and get it over with.

I will not play opposite forge world. I don't have the money to buy the models, nor do i have the money to buy the books. I won't pirate the information to be familiar with the rules, nor are the rules available in store locally. Therefore I refuse to play on an non-level playing field. If a guy came into the store with his book willing to show me the rules and such, I might give the time to read through and see if its something that is reasonable, but more often than not I would rather not play than have to go against something that isn't standard 40k. People with the money and time to put into FW can play people with similar interests, interests I don't share.

May sound a bit harsh, and while some people might say "whom am I to say he can't play with something he paid and and painted" I'm of the mind to say, "i don't care if he paid and painted, I'm playing 40k not FW and he doesn't have to play me."

If a game was already started and my opponent brought up FW rules in the middle of the game, or at that time informed me he was using those rules I would inform him that if he wanted to play with variant rules, he should have asked for consent ahead of time. I would then gather up my models and look for another game or resume painting in the painting section.

Regardless if FW books are official or not, they are still alternative rules, not standard rules. You can't force your opponent to play a game, so its only logical to inform him of your intent to use them, and have a fallback plan if he isn't ok with the use of FW.

OBV this isn't the case for tourneys. Those events almost never allow FW rules, and the ones that do can be safely avoided by people who don't want to play that type of game.

How is this different at all from playing against an army with a unit you're not particularly familiar with? "Oh, I haven't seen a Talos in your army before, I'm refusing to play you." That just sounds like a massive dick move. How about you just ask the guy what the unit does instead, and let the guy play with the unit he spent time and effort on? It's not like most Forgeworld units are THAT different to fight. Oh no, a Contempor is more or less an Ironclad dreadnought with a weak invulnerable save! Be still my heart! Just fight it like you'd fight any other dreadnought and you'll do fine.

notabot187 wrote:I will not play opposite forge world. I don't have the money to buy the models, nor do i have the money to buy the books. I won't pirate the information to be familiar with the rules, nor are the rules available in store locally. Therefore I refuse to play on an non-level playing field. If a guy came into the store with his book willing to show me the rules and such, I might give the time to read through and see if its something that is reasonable, but more often than not I would rather not play than have to go against something that isn't standard 40k. People with the money and time to put into FW can play people with similar interests, interests I don't share.

May sound a bit harsh, and while some people might say "whom am I to say he can't play with something he paid and and painted" I'm of the mind to say, "i don't care if he paid and painted, I'm playing 40k not FW and he doesn't have to play me."

You don't play Forgeworld. You play 40k, and add Forgeworld units to your army.

Your argument is also stupid. I could just as easily say 'I can only afford to play my Tyranids, and can't afford every single codex, so I won't play anyone else but Tyranid players because I want to know what I'm playing against'.

Your attitude basically comes off as 'You spend more on the hobby, I hate you for it, I'm taking my toys and leaving'.

-Loki- wrote:

notabot187 wrote:I will not play opposite forge world. I don't have the money to buy the models, nor do i have the money to buy the books. I won't pirate the information to be familiar with the rules, nor are the rules available in store locally. Therefore I refuse to play on an non-level playing field. If a guy came into the store with his book willing to show me the rules and such, I might give the time to read through and see if its something that is reasonable, but more often than not I would rather not play than have to go against something that isn't standard 40k. People with the money and time to put into FW can play people with similar interests, interests I don't share.

May sound a bit harsh, and while some people might say "whom am I to say he can't play with something he paid and and painted" I'm of the mind to say, "i don't care if he paid and painted, I'm playing 40k not FW and he doesn't have to play me."

You don't play Forgeworld. You play 40k, and add Forgeworld units to your army.

Your argument is also stupid. I could just as easily say 'I can only afford to play my Tyranids, and can't afford every single codex, so I won't play anyone else but Tyranid players because I want to know what I'm playing against'.

Your attitude basically comes off as 'You spend more on the hobby, I hate you for it, I'm taking my toys and leaving'.

Basic 40k rules are easily available, the books are in the shop if you need to look and nowhere near as expensive as IA, I've personally read everything of importance in every codex, know all the rules pretty well, and can figure out quickly the ones that I don't. Toss in an optional rule set that has a barrier of being expensive, not in store, large, and being totally unfamiliar (I never even knew about FW until apoc came out, and couldn't care less about that point level or unbalance). I don't plan on playing FW rules, don't want to get into that, and certainly don't want to throw money away on units I would only get to use occasionally and not in tourneys at all. I have no interest in playing with or against that, but don't have a problem with others playing with them. Why do you wish to force other people into playing with what is ultimately nonstandard optional rules when they don't want to?

YOUR argument is stupid. See, I can do that too, makes the whole place seem more mature doesn't it?

@Brother SRM: I've played against every standard race in 40k, if its a standard approved codex I have no problems playing with or against it. I've played aginst WD article units and armies too (even though I think its rather dumb to publish official material in a periodical that is likely not available for long, at least they made for free online).

FW units are generally not unbalanced, sure, but I don't care, they aren't in the standard game, and I wish to play only standard games. It's not that big of a thing to ask is it? I can find plenty of opponents, and it seems that the people on the side of forcing people to play FW are not finding enough opponents to play when they dished out extra for their models.

As for the unbalanced side of forgeworld, and it does exist, how many people are going to buy an often poor quality high priced model (FW has been known to ship out warped and cracked models in the past, and blocks of molded resin don't cost THAT much to make, I've worked with similar process, and know the cost of the resin) just because it looks cool (which isn't always true) and not because it has cool rules? In regular 40k most people buy what is good to play with, and if there is something cool looking but with crappy rules they give a pass or just get it as a display model. Most of what you see actually on the table is likely to be units that the player fielding it perceives to give them an advantage. The players who just like the model usually don't a problem using it as a standard unit, in the case of a special IC dread unit, they would have no problem running it as a normal IC dred.

notabot187 wrote:This topic has come up a few times before, but since this is a new year I'll put my once a year rant into it now and get it over with.

I will not play opposite forge world. I don't have the money to buy the models, nor do i have the money to buy the books. I won't pirate the information to be familiar with the rules, nor are the rules available in store locally. Therefore I refuse to play on an non-level playing field.

Did you apply the same logic to Dark Eldar armies from 2005 until late 2010? They weren't available in stores (only direct-order online), they were extremely expensive, and almost nobody knew their rules. Did you refuse to play against them? If not, then this entire rationale goes out the window.

If a guy came into the store with his book willing to show me the rules and such, I might give the time to read through and see if its something that is reasonable, but more often than not I would rather not play than have to go against something that isn't standard 40k.

There is no such thing as "STANDARD" 40k.


I don't usually use bolds, but this needs to be emphasized. Nowhere in the rules is there anything defined as "standard" 40k. There is a common convention of codex's-only, but that is a practice, not a rule. Forgeworld makes units for use with the normal codecies in games of 40k that can be played right out of the core rulebook. That makes them about as standard as anything else.

Furthermore, do you do the same thing to new codecies? Do you refuse to play people with armies you've never encountered or new codecies before you've picked them up and read through them? Do you apply the same scrutiny and discretion against all opposing armies and units? Do you even own all of the printed codecies? In my experience, only the tiniest minority of players own them all.

People with the money and time to put into FW can play people with similar interests, interests I don't share.

The same thing applies to different codex's. Armies like Orks, Sisters and especially Imperial Guard often cost twice as much or more as most Space Marine armies, because you can't afford them will you exclude them as well?

Honestly your entire rational sounds like it basically boils down to "other people have money for stuff and if I can't have it I won't let them use it".

May sound a bit harsh, and while some people might say "whom am I to say he can't play with something he paid and and painted" I'm of the mind to say, "i don't care if he paid and painted, I'm playing 40k not FW and he doesn't have to play me."

And there's where the whole thing breaks. These things exist in the 40k universe, they are part of the fluff, and the vast majority of them are designed to be used within the scope of the main rulebook missions and playtypes. There is no "40k vs FW".


It's all "40k".

Now, refusing to play something that is genuinely broken is one thing, but the same should be applied to basic codex books as well and not just to FW, which has far fewer instances of abuseable units relative to many of the newer codex books.

If a game was already started and my opponent brought up FW rules in the middle of the game, or at that time informed me he was using those rules I would inform him that if he wanted to play with variant rules, he should have asked for consent ahead of time. I would then gather up my models and look for another game or resume painting in the painting section.

That's a rather silly over-reaction to simply using new things for a toy manz game, which probably wouldn't make you look like the best guy to get a game from in most gaming circles. They should have their rules available for you to use, but if their normal army that they usually play with includes those units/rules, it's rather silly to simply get up and walk out or refuse if they just wanted to get a normal game in with those units.

Any player who refuses to play against non-apoc FW models doesn't deserve to play. They are more well balanced than many codex items.

I have had a player rage when i brought my r'alai and XV9 heavy list, however when he realized how many points I was paying for those models, he relented.

Actually I have seen one, and it was ridiculous to say the least.

A friend of mine in the 101st got an Elysian army (for obvious reasons), and went to a tourney where his opponent refused to play against him saying that they were not legitimate GW models and if someone were to use FW models they might as well be using LEGO people proxied as such and such an army. My friend was just simply playing Elysian models as Regular IG. It was utter bull.

im2randomghgh wrote:Any player who refuses to play against non-apoc FW models doesn't deserve to play. They are more well balanced than many codex items.

I have had a player rage when i brought my r'alai and XV9 heavy list, however when he realized how many points I was paying for those models, he relented.

So you are the gate keeper on who gets to play now? That's rather presumptuous.

Nice anecdote, how is is it relevant? Its his choice whether to play as much as it is yours. Your the one who wished to bring something nonstandard to a game with probably little to no warning. Just because you got your way doesn't make it right.

@Vaktathi: I owned DE during that time period. The codex and models were available in stores later than you think, most stores CHOSE to not have them because they weren't on the mandatory buy list. Most FLGS have multiple reps they can get things through, and my stores were able to get my models through both official channels and through secondary sources. Hell, most of the models were on the website and GW order book until a year before the new book was ready to launch. As for more expensive they really weren't. The old models were cheaper than the new ones by a considerable margin, there was a copy of the rule book on 2/3 of the FLGS. The rules were straight foward and not hard to figure out (dark lance is same as bright lance, splinter weapons suck, and dissintergraters are plasma cannons with alt fire mode, and you spam the 3 units that are actually effective... not hard to figure out)

Your argument smells like a strawman. The convention is standard codex only 40k. If you say you are bringing an IG army, one expects a normal codex army. One does not expect a full or partial IA #whatever army complete with thud guns, hades breaching drill, cyclops demolition vehicle, or whatever.

If you plan on bringing things outside of codex, informing your opponent should be expected. Even if he is ok with it, telling him about it as you deploy (or even after in the case of special reserve units) is rude and off-putting at the very least, and seeking unfair advantage at the worst.

@king pariah: In this case he was using FW (which is owned by GW) models which cost more money (his prerogative) to represent units that were legal in a normal guard army. Even at an official GW store those models would be allowed (and encouraged). As for the utter bull, its only such if your friend was penalized for having an opponent refuse to play. Then its on the TO's head for running a poor event.



I think everybody is caught up in the whole price part of my argument. I bought into 40k pretty deeply, I have 4 active armies and some retired ones atm, each of the active armies is at least 1850, and one of the retired ones is 3k. I would rather have a whole new army than invest in some coffee table books and some cute or broken units that I will rarely want to or be able to run.

I don't want to read a huge fluff bunny encyclopaedia of the worst parts of 40k (the parts that's serious business all the time) with ridiculous units or even overly reasonable units. Guess what, some people don't like the fluff that much, or like only parts of it. I don't care if the units exists somewhere in 40k universe. Is it likely to be in a particular battlefield? Most of the FW units are implied to be specialized variants and/or rather rare or for specialized support roles only, I wouldn't expect them to be in a normal skirmish sized battle (and even 3k is a skirmish even by IRL standards).

Sure there isn't an "official GW" ruling on what standard 40k is or isn't. Not surprising for a company that only reluctantly issues FAQs and eratta (and often with rather strange conflicts and non use of precedent). Most people I'm aware of consider "normal" 40k to be codex only.

Most of the rage I've seen is from people who bought into IA without considering their opponents, and then go all belligerent when people don't want to play against it. "I bought this, just because you are poor (true or not) doesn't mean you can't decide to play me! I'm ENTITLED TO A GAME" Next time I'm in the shop maybe I should show up with dreadfleet and demand people play with me. I wonder how that will go over? Or since that isn't 40k, I'll just play my pre GK pre WD SoB IG/INQ mashup that used to be allowed. I'm sure I'll find an opponent, eventually...

One more question - what if someone shows up with a FW model to use with standard rules?

For example, I own a Forgeworld Winged Hive Tyrant. It's a GW model, as FW is owned fully by GW. It used rules from the Tyranid codex. It is actually shorter than the GW Hive Tyrant. While its wings are taller, not a significantly large enough amount that LOS blocking terrain won't work for it.

It also has a sculpted on base, actually oval in shape rather than round, narrower than the 60mm base but also longer.

Would you play against me? I'm still using a GW model, using codex rules, but gives a slight advantage from its height and has a non-standard shaped base of a different size to normal 60mm base. However, it has the correct weapon options, correct upgrades shown, and, as said, is an official model.