Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

has any one here fielded a model from forgeworld in a standard 40k game, only for the other player to throw a hissy fit and rage quit from the game? I'm not talking about a major tornement here but say at a club friendly between two rival clubs or game workshops.

I've never fielded one but I'll happily play one if someone shows me the rules.

I have had however, a guy quit turn 2 because I multi-assaulted his 2 Whirlwinds with a Seer Council (S9 against vehicles) and he said that he "didn't agree with it" so he packed up and left.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:I've never fielded one but I'll happily play one if someone shows me the rules.

I have had however, a guy quit turn 2 because I multi-assaulted his 2 Whirlwinds with a Seer Council (S9 against vehicles) and he said that he "didn't agree with it" so he packed up and left.

Iranna.

my sisters partner had some rage quit on him after their game (just a silly tormy at bluewater), this player asked the following:
Player 1: "What's that model?"
Player 2: "its an avatar"
Player 1: "what does it do?"
Player 2: *troll face*

yah guess who won that one

well, depends on the model, if I think the rules are blanaced then I will let him use it.

If its game breaking but I know my opponet is rubbish and the rest of his army is rubbished then i will let him use it because atleast we will have a even fight.

If its game breaking and his added it to his tournament list then I will say NO.

Marthike wrote:well, depends on the model, if I think the rules are blanaced then I will let him use it.

If its game breaking but I know my opponet is rubbish and the rest of his army is rubbished then i will let him use it because atleast we will have a even fight.

If its game breaking and his added it to his tournament list then I will say NO.

so you wouldnt have a generic eldar army with a warp hunter in place of a fire prism or a dark eldar army with a raven in it?

I've never had anyone 'ragequit' over any Forgeworld models I've used in the past. If anything I've found people like to see Forgeworld stuff on the table (if painted better than I can manage), especially impressive models like the avatar, which does look gorgeous when painted well.

If you're using a Forgeworld model & it's FW rules then I would get my opponents consent to use it first.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I've never had anyone 'ragequit' over any Forgeworld models I've used in the past. If anything I've found people like to see Forgeworld stuff on the table (if painted better than I can manage), especially impressive models like the avatar, which does look gorgeous when painted well.

If you're using a Forgeworld model & it's FW rules then I would get my opponents consent to use it first.

the manerger at bluewater store (before he moved to the southend store) said to me once "why should you need the permission of others to play a model?"

I'd only get consent if I were using its rules as well. Forgeworld IA rules sometimes override 40k ones or are much more powerful. When using something not out of the core Codex it's simply polite to ask your opponent. I've never seen someone refuse the use of Forgeworld.

Generally they're not more powerful and state they slot into existing codices. It's polite to ask but not required.

i dont care very much I just enjoy some competition but I won't field one because I don't feel it's right. As long as I see the rules it's ok with me.

well if I'm playing a 1000pts game and some donkey cave throws a warhound titan onto the field I'm not going to be happy but TBH I love to see FW models in my opponents army and if he wants to play that model then hell, he paid good money to buy it and put time and effort into painting it, so who am I to say no you cant use it

skwiff, I have no sympathy for the guy who didn't know what an Avatar was after entering a Tournament. It's long been a model with basic 40k rules and in that environment you need to be really be aware of such information. In contrast, a FW model in a friendly game is an entirely different matter. It's not necessarily a professional environment and FW aren't standard rules. While throwing a hissy and storming off isn't the best etiquette it can easily be prevented in most cases by talking about FW rules involved in advance of the game so your opponent won't feel completely blindsided/cheated (at worst on purpose) when the model comes into play. Hiding tactics/strategies is all fun and part of the game but not making sure everyone is aware of the rules involved is nearly as unsporting as throwing a tantrum.

i think if any one fielded a warhound against you in a standard game then you would be a little mythed about it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Greyish wrote:skwiff, I have no sympathy for the guy who didn't know what an Avatar was after entering a Tournament. It's long been a model with basic 40k rules and in that environment you need to be really be aware of such information. In contrast, a FW model in a friendly game is an entirely different matter. It's not necessarily a professional environment and FW aren't standard rules. While throwing a hissy and storming off isn't the best etiquette it can easily be prevented in most cases by talking about FW rules involved in advance of the game so your opponent won't feel completely blindsided/cheated (at worst on purpose) when the model comes into play. Hiding tactics and strategies is all fun and part of the game but not making sure everyone is aware of the rules involved is just as unsporting as a tantrum.

the person stormed off not because of the avatar but the fact he lost that game, heck i lost all three games in that tormy. my point was that the player wasnt a good loser for he expected to win and you cant do that in a fun tormy

Not if we had discussed it beforehand and the same points were available to each team as usual.

At my local gaming club, since we're all students, we're mostly too poor (nah, we just like to whine about nothing) to field Forgeworld models, but we do get a lot of rage over WAAAAARD.

Mostly it's with Imotekh (spelling?), one Necron player keeps fielding him so we tease the crap out of him. He's a little play-to-win though and fortunately he consistently plays someone else with a similar attitude who rather likes list-building, so I think the latter fellow considers it a challenge. But I still tease...

I've been brow-beaten once for fielding Draigo...

Oh and the non-Ward exception: I never let the SW player live down fielding Njall Stormcaller and Jaws of the Lolwolf.

DPBellathrom wrote:well if I'm playing a 1000pts game and some donkey cave throws a warhound titan onto the field I'm not going to be happy but TBH I love to see FW models in my opponents army and if he wants to play that model then hell, he paid good money to buy it and put time and effort into painting it, so who am I to say no you cant use it

You should be unhappy. You are not allowed to field titans outside of apocalypse.

I love to see ForgeWorld models and enjoy playing them, even if I loose because of them.

I've said this before.

If I find myself playing against someone who is going to argue every tiny RAW point for the most minuscule advantage and suck all the fun out of the game I won't play.

P28 The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer:

"To withdraw in disgust is not cowardice."

We actually started allowing them (units from IAA2 and IAA2ed ...and it has worked very well so far)..the caveat being that you have to have the actual model.

I view FW as part of GW, (because they are) so I will glady play against someone with the models, and I wouldn't play against someone if they didn't want me to use my FW models. I spent the money and time painting/ assembling it, I should be able to play the damned thing.

But someone rage quitting over a FW model?.............he needs to grow the feth up.

I Normally don't buy FW for this reason, (and I hate resin kits!) but for this reason i tend to make them a substitute only if the real model doesn't exist yet or if it makes sense to do it that way IE Wazzdakka gutzmek for me is the Warboss on a bike model. If your Avatar was no different than normal avatar I wouldn't mind at a tourney... but if it was I would ask you not to only due to it being a Tourney and using FW rules right then doesn't seem proper. If you wanted to play me in a pick up game and told me ahead of time I think i would interested enough to try it out

Oh and keep in mind guys FW and GW might be connected but if you are going to buy something then you need to understand that the game is about co-operation. In buying a FW piece you are basically saying you understand these aren't normally taken and are suppose to be new and special. So you might never get to use it officially but you maybe could if people want to play it. I am leaning on the side of the man-baby but only cause I think it's wrong to 'expect' him to say it's okay. Even though it sounds like you were just using it as a substitute (unless I am too tired this morning to understand properly lol)

No, I've never had that problem because I don't play with manbabies. Forgeworld models to use in place of GW models is 100% legal in any and all environments. Using Forgeworld rules is something to be agreed upon beforehand but I'll always say yes.

I've had one game where my opponent wanted to play with a FW unit and I refused to play him.

It wasn't due to the unit.
It was because I didn't like him.

There are other guys in the club who field FW stuff and I'll happily play them.

Brother SRM wrote:No, I've never had that problem because I don't play with manbabies. Forgeworld models to use in place of GW models is 100% legal in any and all environments. Using Forgeworld rules is something to be agreed upon beforehand but I'll always say yes.

Pretty much this. Today I played against some FW Tau stuff (some character suit) and it was fine, he had the rules to show me so we just rolled with it.

Aren't FW rules specifically states as experimental? As in there's no difference between FW rules and rules your opponent just pulled out of his arse?

If you want to field them, just ask first. I'm sure most people would be fine with it in a casual setting. It's a new unit that they can test there mettle against. If you just pull out one and say deal with it, expect to encounter issues.

Necroshea wrote:Aren't FW rules specifically states as experimental? As in there's no difference between FW rules and rules your opponent just pulled out of his arse?

If you want to field them, just ask first. I'm sure most people would be fine with it in a casual setting. It's a new unit that they can test there mettle against. If you just pull out one and say deal with it, expect to encounter issues.

They're explicitly labeled as official. It says so right at the start of the most recent Imperial Armour book.

Ah, now that interesting. I could have sworn I saw some sort of watermark faux stamp that said experimental somewhere...oh well.

If that's the case people have no choice but to deal with it. GW really needs to explain the situation better in their books.

they only refer to them as experimental when first revealed on the forgeworld site as a link in the model's description, once its in a published book ( IA, etc ) its offical at that point...until modified...and altered yet again.

Henners91 wrote:At my local gaming club, since we're all students, we're mostly too poor (nah, we just like to whine about nothing) to field Forgeworld models, but we do get a lot of rage over WAAAAARD.

Mostly it's with Imotekh (spelling?), one Necron player keeps fielding him so we tease the crap out of him. He's a little play-to-win though and fortunately he consistently plays someone else with a similar attitude who rather likes list-building, so I think the latter fellow considers it a challenge. But I still tease...

I've been brow-beaten once for fielding Draigo...

Oh and the non-Ward exception: I never let the SW player live down fielding Njall Stormcaller and Jaws of the Lolwolf.

You guys would have a hard time in my gaming environment around here. Pretty cut throat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skwiff wrote:has any one here fielded a model from forgeworld in a standard 40k game, only for the other player to throw a hissy fit and rage quit from the game? I'm not talking about a major tornement here but say at a club friendly between two rival clubs or game workshops.

The model or the rules for the model or both? What was the issue?

40k isn't very well balanced game to being with ... and a lot of FW stuff is downright ridiculous.

Which is the issue here, at the risk of being called a 'man baby', one of the thing I enjoy about strategy games is to pit my wit and tactical acumen against another opponent. It does take away from the fun to have someone bring a 3rd party model, even if said model is 'ok according to GW' into the game, especially if said model happens to be better at what it does than the Codex equivalent while being cheaper (looking at you Ceastus Assault Ram).

Yes, I understand it's a game you play for fun. But I play Chess for fun too, and that doesn't mean we let people move diagonally with their Towers 'just cause' either. And yes, I understand that 40k is nowhere close to being as balanced as chess and I know that going in a game... but adding FW stuff often just add an extra layer of imbalance on top of the already imbalanced cake and risk making the whole thing topple over.

So yeah, I may be a whiner here, but I'm not a big fan of FW stuff in normal games at all... even tho I do personally have some FW models myself. I usually use them in Apocalypse game (even the non-SH no GC ones, and that's it.

Necroshea wrote:Ah, now that interesting. I could have sworn I saw some sort of watermark faux stamp that said experimental somewhere...oh well.

If that's the case people have no choice but to deal with it. GW really needs to explain the situation better in their books.

page 3 of imperial armour apocalyse 2nd ed.

"CLASSIFYING THE ENTRIES IN THIS BOOK
Although this book is primarily focused on udating the rule for forge world vehicals for use in games of Apocalypse, we have also included a number of official units suitable for standard sized games of warhammer 40,000 as well. In order to make it clear at a glance which are which, you will find a number of 'stamps' used on entries in this book. These are as follows:

1.Warhammer 40,000 Apocalyse unit: Etc....
2.Warhammer 40,000 Apocalyse formation: Etc...
3.Warhammer 40,000 unit: Etc... "

that is a direct reference to the book ^^ as i have it sitting next to me on the page the symbols for each are as follows
Gear with skull in it
Gear with triangle in it
imperial eagal respectively