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A select few people can pull it off, the majority of unshaven wargamers who attempt it can't.

Joey wrote:
Communicating is easy in the real world, not so in academia.
Like in college I had to write an evaluation for some code that it took me about an hour to write from scratch and was bug-free. How the hell do you do that? I got some "helper" woman to do it for me, but for some reason that "help" wasn't available to deal with the bs at uni.

Communicating is easy in the real world. Sure. Now write me a rigid test case document for the QA group that lives on the opposite side of the world that follows a very specific, unnecessarily verbose corporate mandated document template, which also includes an exhaustive business case justification for why you did it.. I remind you, you're doing this for the trivial four line long get method you cranked out in 5 minutes.

I exaggerate, but not as much as you'd think. The reason why you write the way you do in academia is to make you good at it when you hit the real world. One of the reasons my job lapped me up at the time was because I mentioned on my resume that I took classes specifically on technical writing.

Joey wrote:How does wearing a trenchcoat and a fedora hat make you look "creepy"? That's what johnny depp wears man.

Exactly...

corpsesarefun wrote:Is this another one of those advice threads where the OP isn't actually going to accept any advice? like that "do I look creepy" one where the guy insisted on wearing trenchcoats and fedora hats?

The trick to pulling off fedora and trenchcoat is being able to pull off anything. If you're the kind of guy who looks good no matter what you're wearing, you'll look good in a fedora.


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As an afterthought, it also helps to not be wearing jeans and a black hot topic shirt on under it.

Collared shirt, tie, and dress pants are a minimum. Full suit is preferable.

daedalus wrote:

Joey wrote:
Communicating is easy in the real world, not so in academia.
Like in college I had to write an evaluation for some code that it took me about an hour to write from scratch and was bug-free. How the hell do you do that? I got some "helper" woman to do it for me, but for some reason that "help" wasn't available to deal with the bs at uni.

Communicating is easy in the real world. Sure. Now write me a rigid test case document for the QA group that lives on the opposite side of the world that follows a very specific, unnecessarily verbose corporate mandated document template, which also includes an exhaustive business case justification for why you did it.. I remind you, you're doing this for the trivial four line long get method you cranked out in 5 minutes.

I probably couldn't do that, but I also know for a fact that my friends who got firsts/seconds also couldn't do it.

Not that I'm a fashionista or anything like that.


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Joey wrote:
I probably couldn't do that, but I also know for a fact that my friends who got firsts/seconds also couldn't do it.

Well, again, by my own omission, I exaggerate, but some places are pretty bad about that. I DO have to write paragraphs of stuff whenever I work with development, and typically they have to do the same back to me. It's not all just coding.

You could always seek out cognitive testing. from your posts, you're either simply refusing to do something that most people have no trouble faking, or you simply cannot do it. Either way, speaking with a neuropsychologist might help you overcome the problem.

If you don't want to learn how to complete arbitrary requirements to complete your goals, than it's not a very important goal.

That's true. He might have a writing learning disability. Some accommodations are probably available if that's the case.

I'm assuming the UK has something like the ADA?

Rented Tritium wrote:That's true. He might have a writing learning disability. Some accommodations are probably available if that's the case.

I'm assuming the UK has something like the ADA?

If that's something to do with Learning Disabilities then yeah we do.

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:That's true. He might have a writing learning disability. Some accommodations are probably available if that's the case.

I'm assuming the UK has something like the ADA?

If that's something to do with Learning Disabilities then yeah we do.

The Americans with Disabilities Act. Part of it requires schools to provide certain accommodations if you have learning disabilities. Nothing really huge, usually extra time, access to a writing lab when it normally wouldn't be allowed, etc etc.

Rented Tritium wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:That's true. He might have a writing learning disability. Some accommodations are probably available if that's the case.

I'm assuming the UK has something like the ADA?

If that's something to do with Learning Disabilities then yeah we do.

The Americans with Disabilities Act. Part of it requires schools to provide certain accommodations if you have learning disabilities. Nothing really huge, usually extra time, access to a writing lab when it normally wouldn't be allowed, etc etc.

Yeah that sounds like what we have here...

The UK has plenty of support for those with learning disabilities, you do need to put a bit of effort into getting it though.

You can get a certification in different fields of blue collar work (automotive repair, HVAC, construction) without taking General Education classes...might not help you with your love of programming, but just an idea haha

Polonius wrote:You could always seek out cognitive testing. from your posts, you're either simply refusing to do something that most people have no trouble faking, or you simply cannot do it. Either way, speaking with a neuropsychologist might help you overcome the problem.

If you don't want to learn how to complete arbitrary requirements to complete your goals, than it's not a very important goal.

Completing an arbitrary task is one thing. I'm fine doing silly peices of code or excersises to get a grade.
But to write a 500 word evaluation on something that could at best be summed up with the sentence "I did this task and didn't come across any problems" is just rediculous.
I have perused at friends' evaluations but that doesn't help. They're genuinely unreadable, the quality of English used, frankly, shocking. I don't understand how a sane mind could fathom such things.

Rented Tritium wrote:That's true. He might have a writing learning disability. Some accommodations are probably available if that's the case.

I'm assuming the UK has something like the ADA?

I had "help" for an "unspecified learning difficulty" at college but they just do the work for you. There was a guy in our class who was dyslexic who had the same thing. I was offered jack gak at university though. Explaining the tutors that I literally had no idea what to do in the assessments would just result in him assuming I was lazy.
Basically if you have a learning difficulty, education is closed to you. Which is strange considering the low threshhold for intelligence required.
I mean I have friends who've completed degrees and I distinctly remember in college doing the coding for them. Some of these guys couldn't tell you what "object orientated" means but they're still immeasurably better qualified than myself, who is actually pretty damn good at programming but can't advance because of nonsesne arbitrary requirements.
Considering you now have to pay for tuition fees, you'd think it'd be possible to just pay to do the programming modules at university but apparently, you can't.

/too lazy to write

Well I found a qualification for you, you can even sing and dance! Neither of which require writing.

I'd have to go to Australia to learn my cockney accent.

Just fake it Dick Van Dyke did.

Joey wrote:

Albatross wrote:You shouldn't go to university. You should take some form of vocational course. Without the ability to communicate the results of your research you simply aren't going to add anything of worth to your chosen field of study which, after all, is supposed to be the point of university.

The point of going to university is to get a job in the field.

Ah, yes. You definitely shouldn't go to university. People who think like you are the problem, frankly.

The entry requirements for it are far lower than they are for vocational courses, which is why I went in the first place.

You need 3 A-levels to get on a plumbing course?! Woah.

Sorry friend, your going to need to know how to write at some sort of degree. If your in uni, its going to have to be quite good writing.

Joey wrote:
But to write a 500 word evaluation on something that could at best be summed up with the sentence "I did this task and didn't come across any problems" is just rediculous.

I had sympathy for you, but now I have none.

dogma wrote:

Joey wrote:
But to write a 500 word evaluation on something that could at best be summed up with the sentence "I did this task and didn't come across any problems" is just rediculous.

I had sympathy for you, but now I have none.

Seconded.

Having that degree says you know how to express yourself on paper. If you're incapable, or unwilling to learn how to do so, then you shouldn't have a degree, because you're not capable of the skill level a degree confirms you possess.

It's as simple as that really.

Albatross wrote:

Joey wrote:

Albatross wrote:You shouldn't go to university. You should take some form of vocational course. Without the ability to communicate the results of your research you simply aren't going to add anything of worth to your chosen field of study which, after all, is supposed to be the point of university.

The point of going to university is to get a job in the field.

Ah, yes. You definitely shouldn't go to university. People who think like you are the problem, frankly.

The entry requirements for it are far lower than they are for vocational courses, which is why I went in the first place.

You need 3 A-levels to get on a plumbing course?! Woah.

I got into uni with a MPP in BTEC ICT (i doubt any of you know what that is) and one GCSE. I don't think there's a single apprenticeship you can get that does NOT require more than that.
And at the gakky polytechnic I went to, going there for a job meant you were one of the smart ones. Most people were there to piss away their student loan on booze/drugs.

dogma wrote:

Joey wrote:
But to write a 500 word evaluation on something that could at best be summed up with the sentence "I did this task and didn't come across any problems" is just rediculous.

I had sympathy for you, but now I have none.

Well if you complete a task using an established process, and you get the required outcome, what more is there to say? You don't have to explain to people why 2 and 2 add up to 4, it's the same with code. I expected x to happen, and it happened. Anything in excess of that is needless verbosity.
Which is not to say that words do not have their place. When explaining complicated ideas it is often nessesary to use several paragraphs in order to accurately convey one's point to the reader, but that has seldom if ever been needed in "academia".

Joey wrote:Well if you complete a task using an established process, and you get the required outcome, what more is there to say? You don't have to explain to people why 2 and 2 add up to 4, it's the same with code. I expected x to happen, and it happened. Anything in excess of that is needless verbosity.

The proof that 1+1=2 is a proof that most math majors have to do at some point during their academic career. It's not simply self-evident. Yes, it's been proven before (well, mostly, see Principia Mathematica), but the reason people do the proof is to understand how proofs are done so that they can apply them to different work in the future.

If you write a section of code and it works then you should be able to explain what you did and why it worked. Not because you're telling the teacher that you could do task X, but because in the future when you write your own code you will need to explain to other people how it works.

If you can honestly code to a degree level then blag it and set up on your own to do contract work (Temp agencies always misrepresent you and pretty much never check qualifications). Do good hard work (be sure to ask for more if you run low) and you will often get offered a permanent position within 3 months, if you don't get a job within 3 move on.

OR

The more legal route would be to professional qualifications like the Microsoft Professional ones (about £90/exam) as they don't require much if any writing they just make sure you know how to do stuff.

OR

If you want something more comprehensive just look at the OU and the individual units. By just leaving out the "wordy" bollocks like "social impact of the internet" you would be able to put the credits together for an Open Degree.
With an OU degree you have the benefit of transfering to a different unit if you don't like the one you're on without losing all the credit you have earned. You may be able to get credit for the unit you passed at conventional UNI.

(NOTE THAT ALL OR STATEMENTS IN CAPS ARE INCLUSIVE NOT EXCLUSIVE)

If you are incapable of writing 500 words to explain something, you don't understand it.

If you simply dont' want to write 500 words explaining soemthing, despite being capable, than you need to realize that you're not a special snowflake and do the same crap we all do.

I wanted to be a lawyer, and my last year of undergrad I needed to fill graduation requirments. So, in order to continue on my goal, I took a class on religious and nationalistic conflict and a class on mammalian taxonomy.

That's actually some pretty good advice man...I had looked at OU but the first module was ALL writing and people had complained that it had nothing to do with computers so I shyed away. Maybe I could get them to waive it if I was charming enough and bullshitted some.
The Microsoft exams I'm not sure about...I'm sure I could pass it easily but are there many jobs around that require them? I've been looking at vacancies for a while and I've never seen it mentioned.
I thought all ORs were inclusive, irrc exclusive ors are XORs.
Damn I'd love to study circuitry, I was really good at that gak. Lecturer even singled me out in front of the whole auditorium for how quickly I picked that gak up. Yet on the way out there'd still be whinging morons complaining about how hard it was. Pfft.


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Polonius wrote:If you are incapable of writing 500 words to explain something, you don't understand it.

No. Not everyone is as verbally minded as everyone else. Computer code is really the only way I can really articulate something, or pseudocode. Words are just shadows of intellect.

Polonius wrote:
I wanted to be a lawyer, and my last year of undergrad I needed to fill graduation requirments. So, in order to continue on my goal, I took a class on religious and nationalistic conflict and a class on mammalian taxonomy.

The subject is irrelavent. Pretty much all subjects are approached in the exact same way, i.e. writing lots and lots and lots. People who study things are rarely passionate, or even interested by them.

500 words is roughly one page of twelve point Times New Roman font in Microsoft word.

And I think what Polonius's issue with mammalian taxonomy and religious and nationalisitic conflict is referring to the fact that sometimes we just have to do things you don't like/need to get to the things you do like/need.

In fact this semester I'm taking a class on the Ice Age. As someone that is going to school for English education, I don't see myself using that as much as I would use "History of the English Language." Yet, my university believes that if I take two science classes, I will be a well rounded person and thus worthy of a degree with their name on it.

Joey wrote: Words are just shadows of intellect.

I think you should get a nice poster that says this. Hang if where your college degree could go if you got over yourself.

Seriously, you need to take yourself a little less seriously, and just get done what needs to be done. When you write a fairly articulate explanation of why you aren't articulate, the problem probably isn't as organic as you think.

I mean, how is writing a post explaining why writing is pointless possible, but not explaining something you actually like?

@Joey: OU dgrees are modular and you can opt for an "Open" degree where what counts is the number of credits you have at each level.

you have to get 300 points for a BA/BSc or 360 for Honours. In either case the requirement is x points above level 1 and y points above level 2. You don't HAVE to take any unit you don't want to but you do have to pay (funding is available).

Play with the OU site for a bit and you can look at the individual units of the degrees. It takes a bit of drilling but the details are there. Build up a list based on points (I think you might be up to this for some reason) and viola! A degree course to suit you.

Opt for Maths and programming units and there will be almost no writing. You may well still have to produce some stuff but they are used to people needing a little help with some aspects.

Microsoft qualifications are professional courses designed for people who are in the job so if you have them you are showing that you know what to do with the software. There are shed loads of jobs for people with MS quals.

Inclusive ORs mean that you could do any combination of these things not just one of them. I tought I would make it clear.

Polonius wrote:

Joey wrote: Words are just shadows of intellect.

I think you should get a nice poster that says this. Hang if where your college degree could go if you got over yourself.

Seriously, you need to take yourself a little less seriously, and just get done what needs to be done. When you write a fairly articulate explanation of why you aren't articulate, the problem probably isn't as organic as you think.

I mean, how is writing a post explaining why writing is pointless possible, but not explaining something you actually like?

I lack the imagination to make things like that up. Like having to make a 3-month plan for something that took me two hours to do. My ability to actually answer a written question according to a pre-defined criteria of quality is actually very, very low.
Wheras explaining to someone my thought/opinion is a straightforward logical process, take the shape of the idea in my mind, find words (which are also shapes) that roughly fit, then bash them together. At no point in this process does the motivation to regurgitate words on demand fit in.

Sonophos wrote:@Joey: OU dgrees are modular and you can opt for an "Open" degree where what counts is the number of credits you have at each level.

you have to get 300 points for a BA/BSc or 360 for Honours. In either case the requirement is x points above level 1 and y points above level 2. You don't HAVE to take any unit you don't want to but you do have to pay (funding is available).

Play with the OU site for a bit and you can look at the individual units of the degrees. It takes a bit of drilling but the details are there. Build up a list based on points (I think you might be up to this for some reason) and viola! A degree course to suit you.

Opt for Maths and programming units and there will be almost no writing. You may well still have to produce some stuff but they are used to people needing a little help with some aspects.

Microsoft qualifications are professional courses designed for people who are in the job so if you have them you are showing that you know what to do with the software. There are shed loads of jobs for people with MS quals.

Inclusive ORs mean that you could do any combination of these things not just one of them. I tought I would make it clear.

Yeah I saw the actual comp sci/IT course required some stupid essay module first as a compulsary module. I tried to get in touch with them today to see if they could waive it, or I could still do a named comp sci degree without that module. Unfortunately it's difficult to get in touch with them, unlike a contemporary university they don't have deparment heads' email addresses, just a phone number you ring that advises you to check the website. Gah.
But I'll try again tomorrow, should be able to speak to an actual human being at some point.
Thanks for the help, btw. I accidentaly exalted one of your posts and I have no idea what it did.