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Sup, having tried my hand at education throughout the years, I've established that I don't "do" writing. I scraped by in school by copying off my friends but at university I fell apart.
Thing is, according to teachers in college I'm really bright, especially at programming. Our head of year said I was the best coder he'd seen in years. Personally I don't understand why most people struggle with programming when it seems pretty easy to me, but I digress.
Being unemployed and completely unskilled sucks, so I need a course, preferably at Open University, that doesn't have any essays in it at all.
The nature of the course is irrelevant as I can turn my intellect to whatever specialty I need to at any given time, as long as I don't have to do any writings.

Hmmm. Almost any higher degree will involve SOME writing, but computer scientists can sometimes minimise they amount they have to do.

Da Boss wrote:Hmmm. Almost any higher degree will involve SOME writing, but computer scientists can sometimes minimise they amount they have to do.

I was told this before I enrolled at uni but of my 4 first year modules, two were almost exclusively essays.

The ability to write organised reports and essays is still a key part of any good education and job. In fact a similar skill is required for video editing even though there is no text content.

You should organise your thoughts and arguments before committing them to paper (or the timeline).

The tendency for people who write with computers is to bash down whatever they think of, then copy and paste the bits around. I fell into that habit myself. In fact I'm doing it now. It isn't a good method.

Surely you can form letters so what you need is a short course on how to write essays properly. Most mature students get this when starting a degree course. You can also reference this kind of material on line.

http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/study/undergrad/essays/

My advice, granted this is from someone whose career basically is a mix of writing and data analysis, is "learn to write."

Writing is a large part of the foundation of secondary education. Degrees in the US require at least one literary credit course ( to my knowledge). Most degrees that don't require writing are assosiates or trade related. You could at least try a B of Applied Science which MAY not require as much writing.

I can articulate myself fine, I just struggle with the arbitrary writings required for education. Like having to write reports for something I've not done, "evaluating" something that doesn't need evaluation, etc.
I've never felt the need to write more than a few sentences to explain any concept or idea.
I don't see why your inability to write essays means you can't be a good programmer. It's ridiculous getting 90% in one module and 0 in two others.

Beauty School?

Joey wrote:
I've never felt the need to write more than a few sentences to explain any concept or idea.

While I empathize (literature reviews are the devil), it doesn't matter.

People want you to do X in order to earn qualification Y. So you do X if you want qualification Y.

dogma wrote:

Joey wrote:
I've never felt the need to write more than a few sentences to explain any concept or idea.

While I empathize (literature reviews are the devil), it doesn't matter.

People want you to do X in order to earn qualification Y. So you do X if you want qualification Y.

+1 to Lit essays being both written and added to the curiculum by the Devil...
Bane of my life. Though i got a good grade.

When I say "literature review" I mean the section of a published paper or book that reviews the literature that the author believes is pertinent to the topic.

They are boring, extremely boring, and largely pointless because most readers will know where to place the argument in the context of the body of literature. Or, if they don't, could be easily replaced with the obligatory "works cited" series of pages that addends any published work.

dogma wrote:

Joey wrote:
I've never felt the need to write more than a few sentences to explain any concept or idea.

While I empathize (literature reviews are the devil), it doesn't matter.

People want you to do X in order to earn qualification Y. So you do X if you want qualification Y.

I understand that in principal, but my mind is governed by its own logic. I literally cannot bring myself to articulate opinions that I feel are not valid.
It'd be like justifying why 2+2=5. You need to do it to gain the qualification but your mind cannot comprehend the logical process that's required.
I'd always assumed in a course it'd be explained to you how to write the thing itself, but they only ever focus on the information required, from GCSEs to degree level.
In English for example, they will tell you what the themes bla bla bla of the poem are, but they won't actually explain the process of using that information to write x amount of words in order to fulfil a criteria.

Even in the programming world you will need to document (generally in code) what your program does. That is just good coding practices. Couple that with the fact that many companies rely on the ability to write grants, you have two very good reasons to learn how to write properly. You also need to take into account the fact that you will need to know how to write for reports, bugs, any number of things during the testing process.

English is a touch dodgy...
At GCSE they tell you to use PEE in order to answer a discussion question and to give both sides of the argument.
At A level it's a touch more tricky but it tends to be PEE but with a few more bits added.

Yeah you won't be able to get into academia without manning up and forcing yourself to write. If you hate writing that much then don't go to university.

I used to hate it but recently i have come to like it...

I'll say this: I hate writing. Like, with a passion. But I love research with a more fervent passion, and so put up with writing in order to facilitate a career based primarily on research.

And, before anyone drops in regarding 11k odd posts, I view boards as similar to talking, which I love to do.

dogma wrote:When I say "literature review" I mean the section of a published paper or book that reviews the literature that the author believes is pertinent to the topic.

They are boring, extremely boring, and largely pointless because most readers will know where to place the argument in the context of the body of literature. Or, if they don't, could be easily replaced with the obligatory "works cited" series of pages that addends any published work.

In my field the historiography is very important...but given history is largely a group of verbose writers looking at the same sources and arguing over conclusions it's probably expected that this particularly unimportant section in other fields is of great important to professional nit pickers.

Joey wrote:I understand that in principal, but my mind is governed by its own logic. I literally cannot bring myself to articulate opinions that I feel are not valid.

A lot of "academic writing" (and by academic I mean non-technical) for undergrads is simply regurgitating information that you've been fed by your professors. When they say "write an essay about our discussion today" they simply want you to restate what has already been said. What most writing teachers are looking for is that you've developed an ability to string enough words together to form a complete thought. Sometimes they'll want you to write in a certain style or format, which isn't all that difficult to do.

In technical writing (which could be engineering, research, or even critical analysis of poetry or prose) you've actually got to put forward some level of independent thought.

Like dogma said, if you have to do X to get Y credential, then you do X. I refer to it as "the dance." Do the dance, get the credentials, and put that part of your life behind you.

Joey wrote:I'd always assumed in a course it'd be explained to you how to write the thing itself, but they only ever focus on the information required, from GCSEs to degree level.

It's possible that you're missing some essential skills, or they were never taught to you in the first place. Perhaps (and I say this with all due respect) you would benefit from a remedial writing course that actually discusses how to write an essay rather than simply diving into what to write about.

Your posts here seem perfectly coherent, so the problem doesn't seem to be your ability to communicate an idea.

Joey wrote:

dogma wrote:

Joey wrote:
I've never felt the need to write more than a few sentences to explain any concept or idea.

While I empathize (literature reviews are the devil), it doesn't matter.

People want you to do X in order to earn qualification Y. So you do X if you want qualification Y.

I understand that in principal, but my mind is governed by its own logic. I literally cannot bring myself to articulate opinions that I feel are not valid.
It'd be like justifying why 2+2=5. You need to do it to gain the qualification but your mind cannot comprehend the logical process that's required.
I'd always assumed in a course it'd be explained to you how to write the thing itself, but they only ever focus on the information required, from GCSEs to degree level.
In English for example, they will tell you what the themes bla bla bla of the poem are, but they won't actually explain the process of using that information to write x amount of words in order to fulfil a criteria.

Most classes of your core degree requirement in the first and second year of Uni establish how to write about what you study, if that's not enough most core 300 classes (300-309) are designed to give you the specific tools necessary to produce your higher level papers. Where a short essay or paper may have sufficed in 100-200 300 and above will require for example in history a historiographical Essay, contemporary dissertation, or primary source thesis

Joey wrote:I can articulate myself fine, I just struggle with the arbitrary writings required for education. Like having to write reports for something I've not done, "evaluating" something that doesn't need evaluation, etc.
I've never felt the need to write more than a few sentences to explain any concept or idea.
I don't see why your inability to write essays means you can't be a good programmer. It's ridiculous getting 90% in one module and 0 in two others.

I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Grow up.

Seriously, put on your big boy pants and learn to write 5 paragraph essays. Programmers that don't know how to communicate properly are an absolute pain to work with. Don't be that guy.

Alfndrate wrote:Even in the programming world you will need to document (generally in code) what your program does. That is just good coding practices. Couple that with the fact that many companies rely on the ability to write grants, you have two very good reasons to learn how to write properly. You also need to take into account the fact that you will need to know how to write for reports, bugs, any number of things during the testing process.

Having some written communication skills can also be important if you want to get promoted to a managerial level at some point during your lifetime.

Edit: Academic writing is mostly terrible writing. I had a prof in grad school edit a paper of mine to create overblown compound sentences out of my short, tight sentences. In any other situation, it would have been wrong to even suggest those changes. (I'm a professional copywriter and know I'm doing.) But academia is a different planet.

As others have said, the OP seems to be able to put words together, so the issue appears to be more about resistance on the part of the OP than anything else. My advice is to do what you're told. Sometimes even higher education is like an obstacle course you have to complete. Just do the writing the way they want it and move on.

AustonT wrote:but given history is largely a group of verbose writers looking at the same sources and arguing over conclusions it's probably expected that this particularly unimportant section in other fields is of great important to professional nit pickers.

I disagree.

In academia anything that can be said in one sentence can be said with five, and if not, you aren't really trying.

You shouldn't go to university. You should take some form of vocational course. Without the ability to communicate the results of your research you simply aren't going to add anything of worth to your chosen field of study which, after all, is supposed to be the point of university.

Ahtman wrote:

AustonT wrote:but given history is largely a group of verbose writers looking at the same sources and arguing over conclusions it's probably expected that this particularly unimportant section in other fields is of great important to professional nit pickers.

I disagree.

In academia anything that can be said in one sentence can be said with five, and if not, you aren't really trying.

It seems more like you're agreeing...

Alfndrate wrote:Even in the programming world you will need to document (generally in code) what your program does. That is just good coding practices. Couple that with the fact that many companies rely on the ability to write grants, you have two very good reasons to learn how to write properly. You also need to take into account the fact that you will need to know how to write for reports, bugs, any number of things during the testing process.

This was basically what I came here to say. I'm in support in a very "dig into it and figure it out yourself" atmosphere, and I type up flowery responses when I have to interact with clients. I also have to write up detailed and methodical steps for replication when dealing with our development team. Writing is important.

I have three other friends who are programmers all at different firms. Two of them spend as much, if not more, time documenting as programming. Writing is important. If nothing else, you have to be good enough at writing to get a cover letter and resume past the drones in HR to get the job to begin with.

Joey wrote:I don't see why your inability to write essays means you can't be a good programmer. It's ridiculous getting 90% in one module and 0 in two others.

Because despite what you may think, a significant portion of your job as a programmer will entail writing user documentation, commenting your code, writing proposals, writing correspondence via email, writing project documentation, etc.

Seriously, I can't really think of a job in the sciences that requires or benefits from a college degree but doesn't require writing.

Albatross wrote:You shouldn't go to university. You should take some form of vocational course. Without the ability to communicate the results of your research you simply aren't going to add anything of worth to your chosen field of study which, after all, is supposed to be the point of university.

The point of going to university is to get a job in the field. The entry requirements for it are far lower than they are for vocational courses, which is why I went in the first place.

IcyCool wrote:

Joey wrote:I don't see why your inability to write essays means you can't be a good programmer. It's ridiculous getting 90% in one module and 0 in two others.

Because despite what you may think, a significant portion of your job as a programmer will entail writing user documentation, commenting your code, writing proposals, writing correspondence via email, writing project documentation, etc.

Seriously, I can't really think of a job in the sciences that requires or benefits from a college degree but doesn't require writing.

Communicating is easy in the real world, not so in academia.
Like in college I had to write an evaluation for some code that it took me about an hour to write from scratch and was bug-free. How the hell do you do that? I got some "helper" woman to do it for me, but for some reason that "help" wasn't available to deal with the bs at uni.

Is this another one of those advice threads where the OP isn't actually going to accept any advice? like that "do I look creepy" one where the guy insisted on wearing trenchcoats and fedora hats?

How does wearing a trenchcoat and a fedora hat make you look "creepy"? That's what johnny depp wears man.