Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ah. The explorer runs at 1/5 average warp travel not that average warp travel means much (yes it says that) The merchant is the upgraded explorer runs at 1/3 average warp speed.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Randomonioum wrote:

Archonate wrote:And like all their technology, it will be better, safer, and more efficient than the Imperial tech.

While thats a perfectly valid opinion, wording it like this probably wasn't the best thing you could have done. Its only going to spark arguments in the current atmosphere.

And it is actually an opinion backed up very solidly, even in game with tau plasma not getting hot.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, theres already a million threads out there discussing that. Its just that it was phrased in a way thats only going to cause arguments. Next thing you know, Brother Coa will be in here, and another perfectly fine thread will have been ruined with the clash of Tau and IoM fanboys. It might not be trolling, but its gonna start a flamewar just as easily.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:We should give them the inertia-less drives the necrons don't seem to have anymore.

@Berzerker, don't try to define the speed of imperial FTL, it varies by sources, with Brothers of the Snake saying it would take more than a year just to cross their local star cluster.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't change the basic fact that whatever speed Warp travel is, Tau FTL is much, much slower. And that makes it much, much worse, especially combined with the fact that they lack any method of FTL interstellar communication such as astropaths.

If the Tau are going to develop into a genuine, large-scale threat, they will need some much faster method of travel. The speed of communication puts an upper limit on the size of an effective organization, and Tau are not immune to that.

I am betting that when the storyline advances (it actually might-6ed is supposed to be a final rules core, leaving GW free to expand the heresy and the timeline) tau will have FTL on par/better than the IoM and FTL comms.

Even at the present moment, they FTL seems to at least be more compact than the IoM's-Mantas have FTL.

If that does happen, the Tau will immediately be upgraded from 'minor, contained empire' to 'bad in the general vicinity of the ass' in my estimation. However, it would if anything make it even easier for them to overextend themselves; they've already fallen victim to that once, with the Farsight Enclaves splintering off and then getting their teeth kicked in by the Orks. Perhaps they'll manage to rein in that tendency, though; and if they do, that combined with high-speed FTL travel and communications would make it possible for them to become a genuinely galaxy-scale power in the forseeable future.

Unfortunatly its all in the hands of the fluff writers...and each codex's fluff giveth and taketh away.

All I really care about is how they preform on the table top, and maybe forgeworld will give us another excellent sourcebook on them, just wish they would abandon the human POV and use Xenos where aplicable.

BeRzErKeR wrote:If that does happen, the Tau will immediately be upgraded from 'minor, contained empire' to 'bad in the general vicinity of the ass' in my estimation. However, it would if anything make it even easier for them to overextend themselves; they've already fallen victim to that once, with the Farsight Enclaves splintering off and then getting their teeth kicked in by the Orks. Perhaps they'll manage to rein in that tendency, though; and if they do, that combined with high-speed FTL travel and communications would make it possible for them to become a genuinely galaxy-scale power in the forseeable future.

The farsight enclaves were never destroyed though...they are ork ass-kickers.

im2randomghgh wrote:

The farsight enclaves were never destroyed though...they are ork ass-kickers.

They haven't been destroyed yet, but it's very much in question. The War of Dakka is still wiping them out; three sept worlds taken in a year, and every Ork in the vicinity rushing to join Grog's Waaagh as the news of the fight spreads. He nearly killed Farsight, even; the Tau had to abandon the whole planet when the Orks outflanked and surrounded them. Yes, you read that right, Grog Ironteef is one of the kunnin' Ork warlords.

Yes. The slower the spread of commun- I mean the greater good, the better.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yes. The slower the spread of commun- I mean the greater good, the better.

Basically. I don't want the Tau showing up in the Ghoul Stars. They think their area is bad! BAH!

I have been under the impression that the Tau are capable of making short warp jumps?

orz192 wrote:I have been under the impression that the Tau are capable of making short warp jumps?

Nope they never had. They have Small FTL. Their space craft are abosutle crap in the grand scheme of things. They make look shiny and new but if it was a race between a Tau fighter and Imperial Fighter. The Imperial Fighter would win.
Thats it.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

The farsight enclaves were never destroyed though...they are ork ass-kickers.

They haven't been destroyed yet, but it's very much in question. The War of Dakka is still wiping them out; three sept worlds taken in a year, and every Ork in the vicinity rushing to join Grog's Waaagh as the news of the fight spreads. He nearly killed Farsight, even; the Tau had to abandon the whole planet when the Orks outflanked and surrounded them. Yes, you read that right, Grog Ironteef is one of the kunnin' Ork warlords.

Grog was furious at this interruption and declared war upon the Tau Empire, determined to show them that the Orks were not to be trifled with. Unfortunately for Grog, his armies were outclassed and outgunned again and again by well trained and equipped Tau Cadre's. Though his horde of Orks was massive, Grog found his forces being whittled away.1

And I would like to remind you that the tau have ~100 sept worlds, this war, which is a ridiculously huge waaagh! The only bigger ones I can think of are armaggeddon and Ullanor, has taken 3 worlds. Plus, even though the orks are lootin' tau stuff, the tau are still coming up with sneaky technology, like the XV9 which is pretty much THE best anti-ork weapons platform imaginable. And even then, the farsight enclaves are the second sphere expansion, the tau are currently in the 3rd sphere expansion, which means that were the orks to try and withdraw, they would have to go through tau worlds, which would destroy them. Also, the fact that a single manta was changing the face of the war says that the orks are outmatched, AND the tau are still conducting war in a gentlemanly manner (I.E. not using tactics like brightsword- he got his ass killed because he went agaisnt traditional tau warfare) PLUS the farsight enclaves are renegade, so they would no be equipped as well as the TE, and wouldn't have many/any auxilliaries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yes. The slower the spread of commun- I mean the greater good, the better.

Basically. I don't want the Tau showing up in the Ghoul Stars. They think their area is bad! BAH!

The DE are nothing compared to tyranids, orks, IG and SM. Okay maybe they're scarier than IG, but still.

Asherian Command: Not sure that you can properly gauge the relative combat power of two navies by getting their fighters to have a race....

Why not race torpedoes?.. now Tau's better....

You know that in the BFG tourney scene the Tau list is considered OP right? (Very good ordnance very spammed.)

tsz52 wrote:Asherian Command: Not sure that you can properly gauge the relative combat power of two navies by getting their fighters to have a race....

Why not race torpedoes?.. now Tau's better....

You know that in the BFG tourney scene the Tau list is considered OP right? (Very good ordnance very spammed.)

Yes you do realize that the Tau have one of the worst fleets ever? read the fluff. Their fleets are absolutely smashed.
We will not get into this. Plus the Necrons BFG tourney list is probably worse....

Asherian Command wrote:

tsz52 wrote:Asherian Command: Not sure that you can properly gauge the relative combat power of two navies by getting their fighters to have a race....

Why not race torpedoes?.. now Tau's better....

You know that in the BFG tourney scene the Tau list is considered OP right? (Very good ordnance very spammed.)

Yes you do realize that the Tau have one of the worst fleets ever? read the fluff. Their fleets are absolutely smashed.
We will not get into this. Plus the Necrons BFG tourney list is probably worse....

Lol wut? I thought Necrons were the best in BFG (6+ to hit, 4+ shields IIRC, lance weapon that ignores shields on a 6 IIRC...)

Cthululs Spy: I think that he meant worse as in more OP - which I would certainly agree with. Though that doesn't mean a less-OP fleet isn't still OP (therefore an effective fleet).

Asherian Command: Honestly I have little passion about this [I'm far more passionate about His Glorious Imperial Navy] but value credit where credit's due and calm discourse. I mentioned already that the newer Tau ships are still sub-par in some ways, but also excellent in others, and they're still at the point of dragging a decent navy into existence by its boot straps, evolving and improving as they go, as they do in all things.

Yup, they have been spanked in naval engagements, but have also acquitted themselves well in others (largely due to being disdained and underestimated, which is what I'm trying to avoid here for that reason). See Shadowsun's perfect naval victory over the 'Nids, and Taros.

[I see huge parallels with the famous frigate duels between the RN and Revolutionary US, but that's another story.]

This can be discussed calmly and objectively, since however much one might dislike the Tau, their ships clearly aren't cr*p or rubbish - as shown by rules and fluff. Nor are they perfect uber-ships.

[This isn't aimed at anyone specifically but I'm uncharacteristically surprised by the venom chucked at Tau round these parts... genuinely, what's that about? Most places it's 'Tau... yeah, alright... bit bland but they've got some good kit here and there... shrug...'.]

Asherian Command wrote:

tsz52 wrote:Asherian Command: Not sure that you can properly gauge the relative combat power of two navies by getting their fighters to have a race....

Why not race torpedoes?.. now Tau's better....

You know that in the BFG tourney scene the Tau list is considered OP right? (Very good ordnance very spammed.)

Yes you do realize that the Tau have one of the worst fleets ever? read the fluff. Their fleets are absolutely smashed.
We will not get into this. Plus the Necrons BFG tourney list is probably worse....

Actually, in Savage Scars the approaching Tau Fleet made the crusade nervous.

They also said that tau railguns (the ship kind) were capable of peeling away almost all a ship shields in a shot.

Tau fleet is actually very good, very maneuverable, plus they have warspheres and demiurg ships.

AND tau fighters are faster because mantas (tau heavy bombers) can actually use FTL.

AND tau actually do make short warp jumps.

Oh and they engaged a tyranid splinter fleet and destroyed it without losing a single ship.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

tsz52 wrote:Asherian Command: Not sure that you can properly gauge the relative combat power of two navies by getting their fighters to have a race....

Why not race torpedoes?.. now Tau's better....

You know that in the BFG tourney scene the Tau list is considered OP right? (Very good ordnance very spammed.)

Yes you do realize that the Tau have one of the worst fleets ever? read the fluff. Their fleets are absolutely smashed.
We will not get into this. Plus the Necrons BFG tourney list is probably worse....

Actually, in Savage Scars the approaching Tau Fleet made the crusade nervous.

They also said that tau railguns (the ship kind) were capable of peeling away almost all a ship shields in a shot.

Tau fleet is actually very good, very maneuverable, plus they have warspheres and demiurg ships.

AND tau fighters are faster because mantas (tau heavy bombers) can actually use FTL.

AND tau actually do make short warp jumps.

Oh and they engaged a tyranid splinter fleet and destroyed it without losing a single ship.

That info seems suspect. A single shot shouldn't take out shields. Tau don't even fire in single shots they shoot in batteries. Also when did mantas get FTL?

nomotog wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

tsz52 wrote:Asherian Command: Not sure that you can properly gauge the relative combat power of two navies by getting their fighters to have a race....

Why not race torpedoes?.. now Tau's better....

You know that in the BFG tourney scene the Tau list is considered OP right? (Very good ordnance very spammed.)

Yes you do realize that the Tau have one of the worst fleets ever? read the fluff. Their fleets are absolutely smashed.
We will not get into this. Plus the Necrons BFG tourney list is probably worse....

Actually, in Savage Scars the approaching Tau Fleet made the crusade nervous.

They also said that tau railguns (the ship kind) were capable of peeling away almost all a ship shields in a shot.

Tau fleet is actually very good, very maneuverable, plus they have warspheres and demiurg ships.

AND tau fighters are faster because mantas (tau heavy bombers) can actually use FTL.

AND tau actually do make short warp jumps.

Oh and they engaged a tyranid splinter fleet and destroyed it without losing a single ship.

That info seems suspect. A single shot shouldn't take out shields. Tau don't even fire in single shots they shoot in batteries. Also when did mantas get FTL?

The Manta takes on the nearest equivalent role to a Human Titan or Ork Gargant. These dropships are several times larger than a Thunderhawk gunship and are capable of operating as either a skimmer or a flyer on the battlefield. In orbital combat, they are an equal match for whole squadrons of Imperial fighters. The Manta borders somewhere between an attack craft and a fully fledged starship. Yet they are the smallest ship within the Tau fleet and are equipped with ether drives which are not nearly as fast as a true starship for travelling interstellar distances

It says they're interstellar travel is not as fast as a normal starship, but that they have it, and last time I checked they weren't generation ships=FTL.

Thats odd. Because ships like the warden don't have warp drives and they are several times the size of a manta.

forgive me if im wrong, but IoM ships fire from the sides and need to broadside if i recall but the tau ships have front mounted forward shooting weapons.

also tau ftl travel will be much improved with there next gen ships which will then improve again, unlike IoM who have forgot much of there tech or called it heresy (no more grav tanks) the tau are always improving.

Lar'shi wrote:forgive me if im wrong, but IoM ships fire from the sides and need to broadside if i recall but the tau ships have front mounted forward shooting weapons.

Yeah, but Tau ships are undergunned as well (gakky range + gakky firepower compared to IoM ships). And in BFG it is very bad when you shot at targets in your front because of targeting issues.

I dunno, but if i can recall it correctly, warp travel isn't... the safest and most reliable way to tavel from planet A to planet B. Y'know daemons, warp currents and stuff like that. And the Tau isn't the race that would take some random risk for the speed buff.

thanks for that ako, wasnt to sure never played or seen gothic.

i know one of the big advantages with tau is there are no psykers so they cant be corrupted... but the tau as ive had it explained to me kinda surf the warp they almost enter it but dont quite go in

Tau guns are mounted on turrets. What happens is that they can turn all there side guns forward to give there plow more damage.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Grog was furious at this interruption and declared war upon the Tau Empire, determined to show them that the Orks were not to be trifled with. Unfortunately for Grog, his armies were outclassed and outgunned again and again by well trained and equipped Tau Cadre's. Though his horde of Orks was massive, Grog found his forces being whittled away.1

That's a (near, not exact) quote about the very beginning of the war. Here's a few snippets on how it progressed.

Ork Codex page 28 wrote:The Tau forces, caught up in the jubilation of the hunt, overextended themselves. Suddenly the remainder of the Ork force ambushed them from either side, closing upon the Tau hunter cadres like a pair of giant green jaws. . . The Warchief and his boys pursued the retreating Tau back to their base, burning it to the ground. . . The tide had turned, and it was not likely to turn back. . . Since that day many more warbands have flocked to the Warchief's banner. Grog has taken three worlds in the space of a year, locked in a war of attrition the Orks can afford but the Tau cannot. . . so it is that the Tau Sept worlds are constantly embattled by the greenskins of the Eastern Fringe, their fight for expansion now a simple war for survival

Pretty clearly, the Third Sphere Expansion has been HALTED by Waaagh Grog in at least that region of space; they're not taking new worlds in Grog's direction anymore, they're struggling to keep the ones they already have, and failing. That 'single Manta' didn't change the face of the war at all; it shot up some of Kaptain Badrukk's Flash Gitz in a single battle, hurt him but failed to kill him, then ran away with him in hot pursuit. Rumor goes that he's still chasing it, and it's still running (same page). In a year Grog's taken three worlds, and there's no indication he's slowing down; at that rate, he'll own a third of the Tau Empire in ten years. And the argument that the Tau have somehow surrounded him is a bit silly, since he obviously hasn't been cut off. More Orks are still joining the Waaagh, and the Tau are definitively on the defensive.

Also, nowhere is there any indication that Waaagh Grog is particularly large by Ork standards. Waaagh Ghazghkull, Waaagh Snagrod, Waaagh Bork, Waaagh Gorbag, and Waaagh Blaktoof, at least, were other notable Waaaghs of the past two centuries that all had the full force of an Ork empire behind them; there's no hint that Waaagh Grog is any bigger than any of them. There was also Waaagh Gazbag, which was big enough to fight off the entire Biel-tan Craftworld and destroy their paradise worlds, but there's no information on whether there was an empire backing that one up.

Given all that, summarizing the fight as the Farsight Enclaves getting "their teeth kicked in", which was what I said, seems pretty reasonable. What else do you call it when you're thrown from continuous expansion to frantic defense (while losing worlds steadily) in a single year? Please note; I didn't say Waaagh Grog could take on the whole Tau Empire. I brought it up SPECIFICALLY as an example of how the Tau have already overexpanded, and suffered some reversals as a consequence. The Tau are not pushovers, but they're arrogant, and they seem to have a tendency not to see this kind of thing coming; it was that very arrogance which let Grog beat them up badly and gather his momentum, which he's now using to steamroller them. How far will it take him? Dunno. But stopping him's not going to be easy, and hopefully Farsight, at least, will learn from it.

This is a discussion and will be moved to 40K General Discussion forum.

Lar'shi wrote:forgive me if im wrong, but IoM ships fire from the sides and need to broadside if i recall but the tau ships have front mounted forward shooting weapons.

also tau ftl travel will be much improved with there next gen ships which will then improve again, unlike IoM who have forgot much of there tech or called it heresy (no more grav tanks) the tau are always improving.

Uh no they aren't
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Apocalypse_Class_Battleship#.TxyUUIHF_Tp
Look here.
They can shoot side or in front or behind depends with which weapon.

Also where do people keep getting this info on the Imperium's technology being stagant? Ever heard of the Iron Clad, the Storm Raven, Hellfire rounds, hell almost all the ships in the imperial navy are more advanced than before!
The Forces sent on Taros were so inefficiently small its hilarious you guys keep saying 2 regiments and 200 marines is a ton of troops. Have you seen the other crusades? The Imperium Reclaimed almost all of the vital areas and destroyed a few planets.

The Tau are currently in the process of securing their Third-Phase colonies, while fending off remnants of Hive Fleet Kraken and the occasional Ork raids. They have a rather uneasy relationship with the Imperium, which is far more concerned with more important conflicts, like Armageddon and the 13th Black Crusade.

Also Read all the ships provided. (They are all new developments here and there)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Fleet#.TxyV2oHF_To
Please do not raise blunt statements when you can't back it up with sources...

This thread is also about Tau can't warp travel. They will never develop it after Medusa V, because they banned it along with biological warfare. (Life eater) Heck it is a good thing because their life spans are so short. (20-30 years Terran) So they could all die in 20 years :/

BeRzErKeR wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Grog was furious at this interruption and declared war upon the Tau Empire, determined to show them that the Orks were not to be trifled with. Unfortunately for Grog, his armies were outclassed and outgunned again and again by well trained and equipped Tau Cadre's. Though his horde of Orks was massive, Grog found his forces being whittled away.1

That's a (near, not exact) quote about the very beginning of the war. Here's a few snippets on how it progressed.

Ork Codex page 28 wrote:The Tau forces, caught up in the jubilation of the hunt, overextended themselves. Suddenly the remainder of the Ork force ambushed them from either side, closing upon the Tau hunter cadres like a pair of giant green jaws. . . The Warchief and his boys pursued the retreating Tau back to their base, burning it to the ground. . . The tide had turned, and it was not likely to turn back. . . Since that day many more warbands have flocked to the Warchief's banner. Grog has taken three worlds in the space of a year, locked in a war of attrition the Orks can afford but the Tau cannot. . . so it is that the Tau Sept worlds are constantly embattled by the greenskins of the Eastern Fringe, their fight for expansion now a simple war for survival

Pretty clearly, the Third Sphere Expansion has been HALTED by Waaagh Grog in at least that region of space; they're not taking new worlds in Grog's direction anymore, they're struggling to keep the ones they already have, and failing. That 'single Manta' didn't change the face of the war at all; it shot up some of Kaptain Badrukk's Flash Gitz in a single battle, hurt him but failed to kill him, then ran away with him in hot pursuit. Rumor goes that he's still chasing it, and it's still running (same page). In a year Grog's taken three worlds, and there's no indication he's slowing down; at that rate, he'll own a third of the Tau Empire in ten years. And the argument that the Tau have somehow surrounded him is a bit silly, since he obviously hasn't been cut off. More Orks are still joining the Waaagh, and the Tau are definitively on the defensive.

Also, nowhere is there any indication that Waaagh Grog is particularly large by Ork standards. Waaagh Ghazghkull, Waaagh Snagrod, Waaagh Bork, Waaagh Gorbag, and Waaagh Blaktoof, at least, were other notable Waaaghs of the past two centuries that all had the full force of an Ork empire behind them; there's no hint that Waaagh Grog is any bigger than any of them. There was also Waaagh Gazbag, which was big enough to fight off the entire Biel-tan Craftworld and destroy their paradise worlds, but there's no information on whether there was an empire backing that one up.

Given all that, summarizing the fight as the Farsight Enclaves getting "their teeth kicked in", which was what I said, seems pretty reasonable. What else do you call it when you're thrown from continuous expansion to frantic defense (while losing worlds steadily) in a single year? Please note; I didn't say Waaagh Grog could take on the whole Tau Empire. I brought it up SPECIFICALLY as an example of how the Tau have already overexpanded, and suffered some reversals as a consequence. The Tau are not pushovers, but they're arrogant, and they seem to have a tendency not to see this kind of thing coming; it was that very arrogance which let Grog beat them up badly and gather his momentum, which he's now using to steamroller them. How far will it take him? Dunno. But stopping him's not going to be easy, and hopefully Farsight, at least, will learn from it.

The farsight enclaves are RENEGADE worlds, not the empire, don't confuse them.

Anyways.

There IS indication that his warband is particularly large, because he's described as having many other warbands flock to his banner, and because He was able even to take one sept. A tau sept's defense for is quite considerable, with the Dal'yth defense force, which was really only focusing on civilian evacuation, posing huge problems to the entire Damocles crusade and halting the whole thing, to have taken three of them is nothing short of enormous.

And the Tau have not overexpanded. They occupy a world until the population reaches around a billion and then colonize another to avoid creating hives. Also, special issue testing phases only last so long. Ironteef can expect to have his ironteef kicked in when things like the XV22, XV9, CIB, AFP and SIs become standard issue. Same with railrifles.

Also, tau air support FTW.

Also note: WAAAGH! Snagrod was definately smaller, 200 marines (who were holding) is nothing like the defenses of three sept worlds. On dal'yth, 100 marines, a titan half-legio, several guard regiments and IN fighters were all used together, and barely managed to take it, and even then, only captured a city of a few million (which was already evacuated), of a less warlike sept with a higher proportion of water caste i.e. the only caste that makes no wartime contributions.

Lar'shi: Tau have the old cargo ships with some guns with GW minis and GW list, as used in the Damocles Gulf Crusade. Roll on to Taros and they have hastily developed new ships designed from the keel up as fighting ships, with FW minis and list; then there're the lists in the 2010 Compendium which are awaiting the GW 'Official!' rubber stamp (and generally favoured by the BFG community... with the odd quibble here and there).

Somebody who hated Tau may debatably feel justified in pedantically saying 'Nonono, the only official Tau ships are the ugly boxes of cr*p ships that the Tau used 250 years ago' but most folks interested in a nice information exchange (and sweet minis) would be a bit more liberal and include the newer ships too, since it's also a rare example of moving the timeline on a bit where there's a lot of stagnation, and a faction actually matching its fluff.

In a nutshell, Tau lack in propulsion and building tough warships (and numbers of hulls). They excel in high quality ordnance (fast, guided torpedoes; survivable bombers) and their ability to spam it cheaply (as pointed out, their fighters are a bit slower but that doesn't matter too much for most fighter roles, though numbers do).

An IoM ship can kick out more total firepower if she can get an enemy in each broadside. That's diffcult to do so an IoM ship tends to fire only half of her guns at a time. Plus the IoM ship has weaker armour on her sides than prow, and close ranged weapons. (Given that shields recharge each turn, the game favours highly focused fire, rather than a bit against this target and a bit against that; so IoM needs to squadron up and use them good ol' Napoleonic line of battle tactics.)

Tau ships are biased towards attacking prow on, where they can focus their turreted firepower (at longer range) to deliver more fire onto a single target, plus prow on is also presenting their best armour to the target as they do so (unlike IoM). But their prow protection is a gadget (unlike IoM's beautiful armoured prow) which can fail if damaged, and their ships have fewer hit points for a given broad type of ship (both of which gives them a nice points discount).

Bit simplified, obviously, but that's roughly it - like I mentioned in another thread, IMO BFG's done a really good job in making its factions fit their fluff and vibe.

EDIT: Shouldn't need saying but obviously I'm comparing the general line ships, and the bulk of their weapons fits.

EDIT2: Asherian Command: I've just read your post, posted as I typed. Hopefully you can see that I'm trying to be balanced and fair (if it helps, yes if the IoM decided to destroy all Tau of course it could - I'm not a Tau fanboy, though like them well enough like most factions). I would respectfully suggest that you read the BFG fluff to gain a further insight into how the factions' navies work, with the usual strengths and flaws, and the state of development of their tech and numbers of ships. (An Apocalypse Class BB can't shoot behind herself for instance, and the bulk of her firepower is in her fixed broadsides*.)

*In fact picking the Apocalypse was a pretty bad choice for you since they're not made anymore, having been replaced by the 'superior' Retribution Class... which is inferior in just about every way....

The IN isn't just stagnating but is in decline, in numbers (especially of the more powerful ships) and tech. Sure the AdMech can keep creating very few tricked out systems but tends to keep them for its own ships (which they don't like to risk in fleet engagements). Most IN ships that are superior in performance are due to having survived with their ancient targetting matrices and so on - once they're gone they're gone forever and won't be replaced, except with a mediocre, vanilla version - if the IN's lucky. A city-sized warship is very much a macro-artifact, unlike a Stormraven or whatnot.

The Tau on the other hand... follow trajectory and devise s-curve from cargo truck with guns to Custodian etc in ~250 years, then extrapolate further in time. Compare with IoM curve. Luckily, to achieve parity with a numerically superior force your tech advantage needs to be ~^2 the multiple by which you're outnumbered so the IoM will have the edge for a long while yet.

Maybe they should encase their souls in some sort of robot body...