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Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

Not all dogs are good at hunting ( im looking at you chuhuahuas...... GRRRRRRR )

but my point is, on the other hand, what selective breedings does pigs get?

fatter
more meat
more fertile
less aggressive.


Well lets say cats for example, if people bothered to eat cats, people willl be just as horrified.

Now cats cant hunt along humans either, probably does worse than even pigs.

So that brings us back to the original point, because they are cute and pigs are not.

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Made in au
Lady of the Lake






Seems to be it.

   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

LunaHound wrote:
But pigs never received the same selective breeding, ingrained traits dogs had.


Oh yes they have.


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






LunaHound wrote:Not all dogs are good at hunting ( im looking at you chuhuahuas...... GRRRRRRR )

but my point is, on the other hand, what selective breedings does pigs get?

Yuo do realise chihuahuas where breed to be fast and agile to go for the underbelly of and animal. They never see the chihuahua coming till its to late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
But pigs never received the same selective breeding, ingrained traits dogs had.


Oh yes they have.


Will we be getting real life Boar BoyZ soon?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/25 06:20:55


5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Will we be getting real life Boar BoyZ soon?


I'm not a farm boy by any stretch of the imagination (My skin is too pretty.) but my friends that are have told me falling into the hog pen at feeding time is a bad idea.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






dogma wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Will we be getting real life Boar BoyZ soon?


I'm not a farm boy by any stretch of the imagination (My skin is too pretty.) but my friends that are have told me falling into the hog pen at feeding time is a bad idea.

So Riding those pigs into battle would be a bad idea? Imagine U.S. Marine Boar Calvary.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in ca
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot






hotsauceman1 wrote:
LunaHound wrote:Not all dogs are good at hunting ( im looking at you chuhuahuas...... GRRRRRRR )

but my point is, on the other hand, what selective breedings does pigs get?

Yuo do realise chihuahuas where breed to be fast and agile to go for the underbelly of and animal. They never see the chihuahua coming till its to late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
But pigs never received the same selective breeding, ingrained traits dogs had.


Oh yes they have.


Will we be getting real life Boar BoyZ soon?


Lisa Simpson " Im quiting eating meat DAD"
Homer " you mean your not going to eat bacon?"
LS "no"
HS "ham?"
LS "No"
HS"Pork chops?"
LS "Dad those all come from the same animal"
HS "oh yeah right lisa, some magical magical animal"

Thats one damn big pig...so bacon and French Toast for brekky, Ham sandwiches for lunch, and pork chops for dinner? =o]
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

So humans played god, and manipulated genes and breedings and traits. Pigs didn't get the same chance and ends up at our dinner table. We never showed them mercy or gave them a chance.

Why would god help us humans that have done so.
why should god heed our prayers

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Made in au
Lady of the Lake






They've done that for a fair amount of time plants are no exception either.

   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

Guess now its going to be "Why Lunahound confuses you"

:'<

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Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






LunaHound wrote:Not all dogs are good at hunting ( im looking at you chuhuahuas...... GRRRRRRR )


Toy dogs only exist at the whim of the nobles, so to speak. You have to remember we are talking about general cultural and historical trends. There are always exceptions, such as the people who do have pet pigs. Selective breeding has generally only lead to one type of thing for pigs (more food, less destructive) whereas there are a myriad of dog lines. It still ignores the fact that historical documents show that before any serious slelective breeding began dogs still were considered companions and that pigs were still food. Selective breeding may have heightened some of the traits, but they existed before that started.

LunaHound wrote:Well lets say cats for example, if people bothered to eat cats, people willl be just as horrified.


I already brought up cats. Cats are not companion animals in the same sense as dogs. They are more of a lounge pet, like toy dogs. For the none upper class (be it Pharoah or other) cats were useful as mouse hunters.

Dogs show sympathy, empathy, and an aptitude for living with humans. In myth dogs hold a special place with humans that pigs do not. In science it is generally thought to be a mutual evolutionary adaptation. Neither has anything to do with cute.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

Ahtman wrote:In science it is generally thought to be a mutual evolutionary adaptation. Neither has anything to do with cute.

I believe and agreed with that ( the pointing ).

But we cant deny we didnt selective breeding pigs for the same purpose that allowed dogs to be so compatible with us.

we bred them for more meat off them.

That has to play a role now on how the 2 animals evolved.

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Made in au
Lady of the Lake






LunaHound wrote:Guess now its going to be "Why Lunahound confuses you"

:'<


Nope, actually got me thinking about it.
Not sure either, things are just the way they are. Making it look cute just creates guilt and thus drives away from it I guess.

   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

n0t_u wrote:
LunaHound wrote:Guess now its going to be "Why Lunahound confuses you"

:'<


Nope, actually got me thinking about it.
Not sure either, things are just the way they are. Making it look cute just creates guilt and thus drives away from it I guess.


In that case think about this.

To animals, plant, we humans are like gods. Yet we use them and abuse them when we can.
We show them no mercy and only care about preserving them if they are going extinct. And half of us caring about them going extinct
is us worried that they might carry genetics that can help us medically.

Now to gods, we humans are just like plants and animals, inferior beings.
So why are we so convinced they would give a **** about us, when we show such embarrassing display to lesser beings?

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Made in au
Lady of the Lake






Because they needed an answer for a question without one.

   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






LunaHound wrote:To animals, plant, we humans are like gods.


I disagree with the fundamental assumption of this statement.

I agree we could be better in our relationship to nature much of the time, but I do not believe that we are seen as gods or that we are some god equivalent.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in jp
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos






I don't get the Ponies thing either.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Oklahoma City, Ok.

LunaHound wrote:Not all dogs are good at hunting ( im looking at you chuhuahuas...... GRRRRRRR )

but my point is, on the other hand, what selective breedings does pigs get?

fatter
more meat
more fertile
less aggressive.


Well lets say cats for example, if people bothered to eat cats, people willl be just as horrified.

Now cats cant hunt along humans either, probably does worse than even pigs.

So that brings us back to the original point, because they are cute and pigs are not.


You're forgetting Attack/defense dogs. There are some jobs a pig can't do, period.
Sure you can train a pig to sniff things out, maybe. but i don't see K9 officers(civil or military)
trading their dogs in for pigs anytime soon.

And i thought chuhuahuas were mousers? Guess it all depends on the prey as to how well they could do it.

"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC

"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC

 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

Hug a German shepherd, now hug a hog. Dogs feel better. There protective abilities along with their alertness levels can not be matched by pigs.There is a special relationship that has developed between dogs and humans, that I just don't think pigs could really fill that role. Cats I don't get at all, they are pretty useless.

Yes we chose to eat based on ugly





"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





as an asian who's actually HAD experience eating dog (i dont like it but i have eaten it on occasion) there are reasons why even in asia, dogs bred for food isnt popular:

1. Everything else tastes better
2. Everything else is easier to raise in large numbers
3. Everything else is more docile than a pack of dogs
4. Everything else produces more meat per animal than dogs.

Dog meat is too lean, gamey and boney. Dog bones are much brittler than pork bones, splinter into sharp shards and are more likely to cause choking than chicken bones.

Goat meat is very much like dog meat now that i think about it...but Goat meat is tastier

Now as for why pigs arent bred to be companions, I guess its because pigs dont have the inherent "please the master" instinct that dogs do.

take for example the truffle industry. They used pigs to hunt for truffles in the past but the pigs were liable to eat them and liable to eat your fingers off if you tried to take the truffles from them. They turned to dogs because while a dog may eat a truffle, a properly trained dog will be able to fight its instict to eat the goods. Pigs not so much.

this is so OT by the way :p

Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Buffalo, NY

LunaHound you ever heard of Teacup Pigs? Google it.

Pigs aren't as popular as dogs as pets because they're not as good of pets as dogs. They don't generally interact with strangers and families as well as dogs do. I used to have a pot bellied pig and while I still love him to this day he really wasn't nearly as good as of a pet as my Border Collie.

That and while I never ate dog there is no way it tastes as good as bacon.

You know what confuses me?

Why people in SUV's seem to feel their car can stop better in the snow than normal car? Maybe there is slight differences but I dunno. Seems to me I see more 4x4's in the ditch than any other. Pure anecdotal evidence btw.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/25 07:35:45


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Buzzard's Knob

The behavior of people used to occasionally confuse me, but then I realized that I was wasting valuable drinking time expecting the world to make sense. Once I started not caring why people do all of the stupid gak that makes them so happy, I became much more happy myself. Even now that I don't drink any more, I'm still happy.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

I don't understand why you would stop drinking!

"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

DutchKillsRambo wrote:Why people in SUV's seem to feel their car can stop better in the snow than normal car? Maybe there is slight differences but I dunno. Seems to me I see more 4x4's in the ditch than any other. Pure anecdotal evidence btw.


When i first came to Canada, my parents were buying cars. They were told by the sales person that
SUV generally have 4 wheel drive, designed for all year, tougher incase crashes, and heavier for more traction.


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Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





hotsauceman1 wrote:Are you trying to troll bronies here?


Not at all. I’m just saying it’s a thing I don’t understand. I mean, how did it happen? Even if one guy just happened to sit down and this thing was on telly and he discovered he loved it, and instead of watching it in private afraid other people would make fun of him but instead went to the internet to tell everyone else how great this show is, how did he convince other young men to try the show? How did this happen so much that it became an internet phenomenon, and how did people go from watching the show to making so much art attaching it to various geek properties? How did the support become so fanatical?


LunaHound wrote:[But pigs never received the same selective breeding, ingrained traits dogs had.


No, and maybe if there’d been a role for a domesticated pig in nomadic tribes thousands of years ago it’d all be different, but there wasn’t, or the tribesman didn’t see one and just stuck to the dogs. So instead we have pigs bred for food, not companionship.

But the thing is you don’t treat an animal according to what it might have been bred into had things been different, you treat it according to what it is.


DickBandit wrote:People who criticize others for their hobbies, yet most of them who do this also wear shirts with other men's names on them on put their entire life on hold to watch a bunch of men pound each other into the ground over a ball for 3 hours.


Good one. I love sport, and get a lot of fun out of watching the best play, but why do people get so engrossed in whether one franchise wins or another? The players aren’t local, so it isn’t as though it’s the best of your city on display, it’s just a bunch of people picked through a draft or bought on the open market, coming in to play, bankrolled by people who fanatically support whoever is brought in. “Yes! We won! My membership fee was successfully invested in the best players! That means a lot to me!”

I guess you see the same with some wargamers. Not the guys who think they're wonderful because they win lots of games, they're obnoxious, but understandable. No, I mean the guys who think they're great because the faction they picked is great. It's the Chaos guy who keeps talking about Chaos, and in turn Chaos players, are the best because Chaos is destined to eventually win.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

sebster wrote:No, and maybe if there’d been a role for a domesticated pig in nomadic tribes thousands of years ago it’d all be different, but there wasn’t, or the tribesman didn’t see one and just stuck to the dogs. So instead we have pigs bred for food, not companionship.

But the thing is you don’t treat an animal according to what it might have been bred into had things been different, you treat it according to what it is.


I know thats how it is in the real world, and I hate it.

Because humans sure dont like that idea >.>

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Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Things I don't get?

Bronies.
Hello kitty
Other Chibi, kawaii and impossibly "cute" stuff.

Never have, never will understand it.

Internet meme jokes like the "arrow to the knee" thing.
(I had that one explained to me. Not having EVER played a single D&D computer game - and Skyrim is just another Elder scrolls, which is just another D&D game, I wouldn't have ever figured it out for myself).

Love for the 1985 transformers movie. I've seen it. The animation was lame, even for its time. The music was eardrum-puncturing bad, cliched 80s hair metal. Yet some people think you have just violated their pet gerbil if you say you don't like it and enjoyed the live-action movies.

@Luna: We've always separated animals into the "cute" ones and the "edible" ones.

Otter: Can do cute human things with its 'hands' - Cute, do not eat.
Cow: Tastes good, provides leather for baseballs and mitts. Edible.
Crocodile: Ugly as feth, but it was going to eat you if you didn't kill it and marinade it first, before bbqing it. Ugly, edible.
Pig: Ugly, smelly, not particularly sociable. Tasty.

Dolphin: Cute, does things for fun - even fapping. Most people don't eat them. They also taste bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/25 09:50:15


I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

chromedog wrote:Things I don't get?

Bronies.
Hello kitty
Other Chibi, kawaii and impossibly "cute" stuff.

Never have, never will understand it.

Internet meme jokes like the "arrow to the knee" thing.
(I had that one explained to me. Not having EVER played a single D&D computer game - and Skyrim is just another Elder scrolls, which is just another D&D game, I wouldn't have ever figured it out for myself).

Love for the 1985 transformers movie. I've seen it. The animation was lame, even for its time. The music was eardrum-puncturing bad, cliched 80s hair metal. Yet some people think you have just violated their pet gerbil if you say you don't like it and enjoyed the live-action movies.


But chromedog your avatar with santa hat IS CUTE KAWAIIII

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Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Not anymore.
Xmas is over.


I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

http://www.forteantimes.com/strangedays/science/4783/thinking_doggiestyle.html

A common – if unlikely – claim made by dog owners is: “He understands every word you say.” But scientists are increasingly finding that it might be truer than you think. The evidence suggests that the two species have moulded each other over a long period of co-evolution, and have developed sophisticated communications in the process.

Archæological findings show that dogs were first domesticated at least 10,000 years ago, with one find at the Goyet Cave in Belgium recorded in 2008 possibly pushing that back to 30,000 years. Genetic studies indicate that the process of domestication that split dogs from wolves may date as far back as 100,000 years. And the relationship may have started long before that, as some archæological finds put humans and wolves in the same place 400,000 years ago.

The aptly named biologist Wolfgang Schleidt suggests that the two came together in Northern Europe at a time when humans – either Homo sapiens or the earlier H.erectus or H.heidelbergensis – existed in small nomadic groups. Humans joined wolves in their following of migratory reindeer, and the two races of hunter-scavengers started working together.

The success of the wolf pack hinges on the members’ ability to work together without conflict and share the kill. Recent work with dogs shows that they have a sense of ‘fair play’, previously thought to be limited to primates. The experiment at the University of Vienna involved training dogs to extend a paw. The dogs were happy to perform this trick with or without a reward when on their own. But if they were with another dog which received a reward when they did not, the dogs quickly refused to play.

We don’t know yet whether wolves share this attitude. Some have suggested that dogs became attuned to fairness as an adaptation for living with humans. This seems questionable: the phrase “a dog’s life” dates back to the 17th century, meaning “a life of misery, or of miserable subservience”.

Perhaps humans gained their own notions of fairness from their companions during the period when the two worked together. Wolfgang Schleidt sugg­ests that “wolves and dogs, with their remarkable capacity for co-operation and loyalty, were both role models and companions on this long trek toward humanity.”[1]

Sherlock Holmes once noted the curious silence of a dog, which failed to bark in the night (clear evidence to the great detective that an intruder was known to the dog). However, what is really curious is that dogs bark at all. Barking is rare among wolves, whose vocal commun­ications are generally howls or growls. Barking appears to have been evolved to talk to people.

Barking is more effective at getting human attention than growling. Peter Pongracz, a behavioural biologist at Eotvos University in Budapest, has shown that the pattern of barking is different for aggression, loneliness and happiness. Pongracz’s team recorded hundreds of different barks from different situations. Not only were the barks consistently differ­ent depending on the dog’s emotional state, but even people who had never owned a dog were able to correctly interpret them. Our long association with them means that understanding dogs is hardwired into the human psyche.

Humans and dogs also share the ability to follow a gaze or gesture to see what someone else is looking at or indicating. This is very unusual in nature – even chimpanzees have trouble with pointing tasks. However, the same team at Eotvos University also showed that dogs are capable of following both gaze and pointing. This should not come as any great surprise when you consider what Pointers are bred to do. Wolves are also capable of learning the same tricks, but it is much harder for them: unlike dogs they are not used to looking at humans.

Again, it would be interesting to know if pointing or gaze-following is a natural skill in wolves that humans – being mere primates and a bit slow – gradually acquired over time.

Dogs also read human facial expressions. A team at the University of Lincoln has found that dogs show what is termed ‘left gaze bias’. This is the tend­ency, when looking at a human face, to look left (i.e. at the right-hand side of the face) first, and to spend more time looking at this side. Left gaze bias has already been established as a human trait and only occurs when looking at faces. The reason for it is that emotions register more clearly and more intensely on the right side of the face. And dogs have been around humans long enough to have face-reading in their genes.

However, while it might seem that dogs and humans have evolved to understand each other very well, there is one huge gap. Children under the age of five have very little understanding of dog body language or barks and can’t tell a happy dog from an angry one. An excited child may try to hug this big fluffy toy, with disastrous results. Dogs and small children should always be supervised; possibly ancient humans didn’t leave children alone with dogs the way their modern descendents are prone to. Or perhaps evolution still has some work to do.

So far, research into dog-human communication has only scratched the surface; but the indications are that, even if they don’t catch every word, dogs understand us very well indeed because they shaped our brains as we shaped theirs.



NOTES
1 WM Schleidt: “Apes, wolves, and the trek to humanity”, Discovering Archaeology, 1999.



The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
 
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