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@ ragnar. Considering that net trolls both ramble incoherently and have poor English/syntax, between the 2 of us, you're more of a troll then I am.

@Cryonicleech. Well if tournament listing/battle reports from top tier players were so easily accessible from google then i wouldn't have made the post. Simply typing in 'tournament list woc' or 'tournament/throne of skulls etc. winner/list' gets list' gets you to either an dated post or a dead end. If you could perhaps point me to one, id be grateful.

If anyone else decides not to read the post and go straight to offensive name calling/bullying, i will report them and hopefully get their accounts suspended!

Unlike 40k, the only 'instant-win' buttons in Fantasy require pure list tailoring or else taking a tailored list and praying for the right match-ups.

I could tell you that going a Tzeentch chosenstar build = roflstomp'ing goodness. But eventually you'll come up against someone who;
- Knows how to deal with your 1000+ pts deathstar 'o doom by diverting it or having it run in little circles or else outright avoiding it completely.
- Has lore of metal and will auto-kill a 3rd of the unit each turn with final transmutation.
- Has the 13th spell and turns your 'uber unit into clanrats.
- Has infernal gateways and gets lucky rolling an 11 or 12 for the spell's strength and wipes out the entire unit.
- Has a million + one hexes and then smashes you with yet another auto-kill spell.
- Has a mirrior unit to yours and wins the grinding game.
- Has an even nastier deathstar that includes a character carrying the other trickster's shard.
- Has ethereal units to lock you up all game.

Plus other counters besides...
And that's the beautiful thing about Fantasy compared to 40k - nothing is invincible in this game and anything can be countered once you know what you're doing. Even complete silly BS like Teclis + Banner of World Dragon + 120 archers in the folding fortress or a 100% pts denial VC zombie list.

The only way to get upto that glorious 80%+ win ratio is to play the game as much as possible against better players and take your lumps. Ask your opponent questions after the game about how they took you apart or how they countered your tactics. Ask them how you could have maybe deployed differently, or else what unit they were *really* afraid of and why. Ask yourself too how you could have deployed differently/better or else what unit/s really gave you the most trouble and what you could have done differently.
The only opponents who will refuse to talk afterwards are dbags to begin with. Even if your opponent is in a hurry to get home/family/work, most opponents will at least have the decency and manners to say so!



Be a nice guy to your opponents and odds are your opponents will do the same. We all started out as rushish noobs, and sure some of us, (such as myself because I can't roll higher than a 1 to save my life), still aren't super good even after years of experience. But eventually if you stick with your WoC you'll start to learn their tricks & tactics and get that much better with.

Hope this helps,
-Stitch, the luckless wonder who's failed cypher's 4+ save on 3D6 10 out of 11 times.

I still havent seen a list from the OP or tactics that the OP uses! how many times do people need to ask to get some understanding!

The best way to win in fantasy is to not copy someone else's list.

They play a style that is their own and they win with that style. You need to understand that WOC have the BEST CORE IN THE GAME!!!!!! With the knowledge that everyone has said and through playing the game you can win and win big. WoC are one of the best armies out there. You have to find a mix of their units that you like and fits your play style then play with it and not INTERNET COPY!!!!!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420397.page

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/fb-battle-reports/159579-marauder-indy-gt-tournament-report-woc.html

Sure, there's only two links, but it took me 5 seconds to find. First link is an army list, 2nd is a tournament report in which the WoC player goes 2 of 3.

All I typed was WoC Tourney List and WoC Tourney Report.

Good luck finding the unbeatable WHFB powerlist.

HoverBoy wrote:The reason you see so many batreps where WoC loose is that people can't help but show off that they managed to beat them

rockerbikie wrote:They kick WE's ass.

Just this past Saturday I was able to completely massacre some WoC with my Wood Elves... just saying lol

I actually just took best general at my local GW tournament after completely crushing all 3 of my opponents, so WoC definitely isn't the worste army... or I'm just that awesome. I'm fine with either

A woc player won the fantasy tournament last weekend here without a chosen star so ya they are not the wrste by far.

They have the 2 best core units in the game in terms of blocks:

40 marauders with flails and mark of korne = GG

Warriors of chaos have INSANE statline.

It sounds like you just need to learn how to play/red the game better. It is a steep curve.

iddy00711 wrote:As a new fantasy player i decided to research out which armies were both playable and decent. Unfortunately i stumbled on a few bloggs praising chaos warriors and after a quick look i decided to dish out quiet abit of cash on them. Now after both playing them and reading almost 40-50 battle reports almost every single the resulting in a defeat for warriors of chaos. i can confidently say, no matter what the build, warriors of chaos are both the worst army in 8th ed and totally un-competitive in any respect. Now im asking the people of dakka if they can name me 1, just 1, W.O.C. army/player whose even been placed in the top 10 in a major tournement (over 100 people).

Insulting people is a violation of Dakka rules.-Mannahnin

On a side note about getting games in, me and my buddies don't always have time to set up games and go in to play so we use Universal Battle to try out lists and test armies when we need to see how they will preform. Its essential an open playing field for various armies.

To the OP:

A quick glance at Rankings HQ shows me this:

Aaron Chapman, ranked #3 on the site for fantasy players in the US, won the 40-player Shiloh Slaughter 2 weeks ago with WoC. There were 3 WoC players in the top 5. Link:

http://www.rankingshq.com/public/tournamentprofile.aspx?TournamentId=2881

Michael Hengl, ranked #6 on the site, won the 64-player SAWS Challenge with WoC. There were 4 WoC players in the top 10. Link:

http://www.rankingshq.com/public/tournamentprofile.aspx?TournamentId=2141

Those are two quick examples, but hopefully it shows you the facts that you've been requesting: WoC are extremely competitive, and regularly win and place very highly at top events. I would've loved to list out the results from the Adepticon tournaments, but the results aren't listed by armies for them (or for a number of events). But the examples shown above should illustrate the point... there are many more, as well.

Thanks for the replies. Its much appreciated. As a previous eldar player (this was before the time of blogs and massed pc's) ive had first hand experience on picking a 'bad army'. I played them for almost 2 awful years, before I realised that it was an army which was both bad and devoid of any kind of fun. As this is my hobby i expect to at least get some fun out of the game in the long term. As i'm now convinced that WOC are decent, ill stick with them. Thanks again.

iddy00711 wrote:Thanks for the replies. Its much appreciated. As a previous eldar player (this was before the time of blogs and massed pc's) ive had first hand experience on picking a 'bad army'. I played them for almost 2 awful years, before I realised that it was an army which was both bad and devoid of any kind of fun. As this is my hobby i expect to at least get some fun out of the game in the long term. As i'm now convinced that WOC are decent, ill stick with them. Thanks again.

Before massed PC's puts it at 2nd edition... Eldar were amazing back then, those sustained fire shuriken catapults which reduced marines saves to 5+, power swords giving howling banshees str 5 and the abilities on them made them feared by any player who took a charge from them. Ah good times.

My god! I wont even make an effort to give you advice since this is clearly just a mater of trolling from someone who lacks the skills to build even a mediocre list

The only time I could see people complaining is when wave serpents were a fw thing. Point being eldar havent really stopped being good. They just have a certain play style and thats how they have to play.

Woc are not weak and they have lots of options.

No army will give you a win in every game if you dont know what you are doing. This has to be learned you may get lucky but everyone does. Your army has to evolve you have to try new things to get your army to fit your play style. This means when you loose a game see what went wrong and adjust that and if you keep doing that long enough you will one day understand your army as well as having an army that will fit your style which by this point will be a well developed battle plan.

SImply put you cant rush it take your time and dont give up once something goes wrong.

Trondheim wrote:My god! I wont even make an effort to give you advice since this is clearly just a mater of trolling from someone who lacks the skills to build even a mediocre list

The guy took people's advice, thanked them and said he'd changed his mind because of what they'd told him. That's about as untrolling as you can get.


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cowpow16 wrote:The only time I could see people complaining is when wave serpents were a fw thing. Point being eldar havent really stopped being good. They just have a certain play style and thats how they have to play.

After the 3rd ed release of Eldar, but before Craftworld Eldar, they were only competitive in certain, mostly silly builds, and they weren't much fun at that.

Ah I see I was a noob back then at eldar.

cowpow16 wrote:Ah I see I was a noob back then at eldar.

To be honest the rules since 3rd ed have a lot to answer for making the game not a lot of fun at all imo. Could you imagine the same principle happening in WHFB? WoC suddenly have the hardest units in the game for infantry and cavalry suddenly flies off the shelves as that 1+ armour save just won't budge except when a cannonball hits you in the face .

Your saying no modifying armor saves? If so ill be right there cheering 3+ armor on warriors and 1+ on knights I think I can live with that

Vermillion wrote:To be honest the rules since 3rd ed have a lot to answer for making the game not a lot of fun at all imo. Could you imagine the same principle happening in WHFB? WoC suddenly have the hardest units in the game for infantry and cavalry suddenly flies off the shelves as that 1+ armour save just won't budge except when a cannonball hits you in the face .

It was pretty unplayable in the back end of 2nd ed as well, full of unkillable super characters and all kinds of stupid, finicky special rules.

Really, 40K has basically been on a 'too simple, let's add new rules, aah that's just right, oh no too many rules added now it's an over-complicated, unbalanced mess, let's simplify it, aah that' just right, oh no too many rules stripped now it's too simple' cycle since Dark Millenium, maybe sooner.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cowpow16 wrote:Ah I see I was a noob back then at eldar.

Fair enough.

I must admit i was shocked at the opening of your post. I have never had trouble being competitive with WoC, except maybe when they trashed our book and we had to play our army out of white dwarf for a while while they were working on the previous editions book. The last tourney i played in i went 5-1, the only game i lost was to the guy who ended up winning the tourney and he brought the typical Gutstar, but my dice also died on me and he could do no wrong as far as his were concerned. Good guy, we had some laughs at the end. I'm still pretty surprised that you seemingly found nothing but dismal battle reports about WoC. I typically see at least one WoC placing in the top 10 of every major tourney report i see. I think this book added alot of mobility to WoC that we were lacking in previous books, as well as modifying how are army works, but not breaking it in either direction at the same time. I hope you enjoy trying new builds and learning the ropes on this fun and very competative army.

I have a huge problem with even the nooby-ist of WoC players. They can have a 3+ save base for their entire army and it all hits so hard nothing I have to touch them. Shooting is ineffective due to save and no matter what they will, eventually, make combat. And when they do I lose.

But well, I play Wood Elves, and I think I deserve the right to the worst army in 8th Ed far more then you do!

This thread is like 2 years old.

Ya'll need English (OP at the forefront of that thought).

Back into the dirt with you, Necro'd Thread!