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Application to him from GW?
Changing GW history is something thats common place now, but changing something like this?
Might aswell re-name a country.

Monster Rain wrote:

Blackskullandy wrote:Well, those kind of shenannigans pretty much signalled the start of the downward spiral that Eddie Murphy's career has become, so maybe there's a silver lining?

Ah, no.

You have seen Coming to America, right?

Fair point, but compared to The Nutty Professor, Coming to America looks like Citzen Kane

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I honestly think Citizen Kane was one of the worst movies I've ever watched.

LordofHats wrote:Maybe I'm just crazy, but I honestly think Citizen Kane was one of the worst movies I've ever watched.

Agreed. I thught it was magnificently overblown with acting that was not particularly noteworthy.

LordofHats wrote:Maybe I'm just crazy, but I honestly think Citizen Kane was one of the worst movies I've ever watched.

I was just reaching for one of those 'important' movies... Could have been Gone With The Wind or Metropolis or what have you...

Ok, Raise hands on who is going to see it just to watch the trainwreck.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok, Raise hands on who is going to see it just to watch the trainwreck.

Gotta admit, I laughed my ass off throughout Transformers 3. If nothing else, Michael Bay can make a really good comedy.

Geek Squad, this.....

Today makes me want to go into Alcoholism.

Manchu wrote:For the Ninja Turtles franchise, even Michel Bay's vision could only be a step up.

You are just the worst.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok, Raise hands on who is going to see it just to watch the trainwreck.

..... this sort of thing just helps fuel him. I will have no part.

streamdragon wrote:

Manchu wrote:For the Ninja Turtles franchise, even Michel Bay's vision could only be a step up.

You are just the worst.

Well, I have to agree with him about the later films.

I loved the first one, though. Still do.

Only the third one was truly atrocious, really. I hate time travel used as a plot device like that.

The first is excellent, no doubts. It holds surprisingly well and stays (relatively) close to the source material. The second was decent as well, though obviously not as good as the first.

The third was crap. Plain, unadulterated, pure horrific crap.

TMNT wasn't a horrible film, although it followed more on the latest show which I didn't follow. It wasn't top tier, but at least it was better than TMNT III...

Nothing will make changing the Teenage MUTANT Ninja Turtles into aliens is an improvement though...

I just heard Michael Bay's response to internet criticism on this subject.

He's my hero.

If you suspend all nostalgia and can truly say that the original Transformers and TMNT cartoon shows were entertaining for adults, then Michael Bay's movies are Oscar-worthy by comparison. Bay's Transformers is not only bad because it can't live up to nostalgia but its source material isn't even that good in and of itself. (To forestop the debate, just consider how much better the War for Cybertron video game is compared to similar stories presented in the 80s cartoon.) TMNT is a bit different given that the original source is a comic book making fun of comic books. But I doubt this movies is going to be about that so the cheesy cartoon is the standard we're aiming for. All internet hyperbole aside, Michael Bay can definitely make a better film than any episode of the old TMNT cartoons. Again, it's just a matter of not letting your inner 6-year-old scream TURTLE POWER in lieu of objective appraisal!

Manchu wrote:If you suspend all nostalgia and can truly say that the original Transformers and TMNT cartoon shows were entertaining for adults, then Michael Bay's movies are Oscar-worthy by comparison. Bay's Transformers is not only bad because it can't live up to nostalgia but its source material isn't even that good in and of itself. (To forestop the debate, just consider how much better the War for Cybertron video game is compared to similar stories presented in the 80s cartoon.) TMNT is a bit different given that the original source is a comic book making fun of comic books. But I doubt this movies is going to be about that so the cheesy cartoon is the standard we're aiming for. All internet hyperbole aside, Michael Bay can definitely make a better film than any episode of the old TMNT cartoons. Again, it's just a matter of not letting your inner 6-year-old scream TURTLE POWER in lieu of objective appraisal!

I get what you're saying Manchu, and I agree in general. The problem I have with this is, making a good TMNT film doesn't require changing such a core element of their origins. The mutant aspect is so important, it's in the actual title. Allowing the TMNT to remain teenagers, mutants, ninjas, and turtles, certainly wouldn't cripple any creative expression that a director might want to include to make the film his own. I absolutely would not expect the film to follow exactly with the comic books, the cartoons, or any other previous media. I would be fine with new locales, new enemies, and new supporting characters. But to change such a fundamental aspect of the Turtles' identity in a film about the Turtles just seems asinine to me, and to make a change that is such a slap in the face to the established fan base doesn't seem like a particularly good decision either.

Monster Rain wrote:I just heard Michael Bay's response to internet criticism on this subject.

He's my hero.

Got a link?

Hordini wrote:

Manchu wrote:If you suspend all nostalgia and can truly say that the original Transformers and TMNT cartoon shows were entertaining for adults, then Michael Bay's movies are Oscar-worthy by comparison. Bay's Transformers is not only bad because it can't live up to nostalgia but its source material isn't even that good in and of itself. (To forestop the debate, just consider how much better the War for Cybertron video game is compared to similar stories presented in the 80s cartoon.) TMNT is a bit different given that the original source is a comic book making fun of comic books. But I doubt this movies is going to be about that so the cheesy cartoon is the standard we're aiming for. All internet hyperbole aside, Michael Bay can definitely make a better film than any episode of the old TMNT cartoons. Again, it's just a matter of not letting your inner 6-year-old scream TURTLE POWER in lieu of objective appraisal!

I get what you're saying Manchu, and I agree in general. The problem I have with this is, making a good TMNT film doesn't require changing such a core element of their origins. The mutant aspect is so important, it's in the actual title. Allowing the TMNT to remain teenagers, mutants, ninjas, and turtles, certainly wouldn't cripple any creative expression that a director might want to include to make the film his own. I absolutely would not expect the film to follow exactly with the comic books, the cartoons, or any other previous media. I would be fine with new locales, new enemies, and new supporting characters. But to change such a fundamental aspect of the Turtles' identity in a film about the Turtles just seems asinine to me, and to make a change that is such a slap in the face to the established fan base doesn't seem like a particularly good decision either.

I agree with Hordini; changing them from Mutants, which is so important to them it is in the title to aliens is just ludicrous. I mean, I honestly don't remember alot of the cartoons; the only real memory I have is the first TMNT movie.

As long as the cast includes, but isn't limited to: Mikey, Donny, Ralph, Leo, Splinter, April, Shredder, and Kasey, I'm perfectly happy. Heck, go with the original comics, in which Shredder was the GOOD guy (His brother was killed by Master Yoshi, he killed Yoshi for revenge, which prompted Splinter and the turtles to seek revenge), and turn April into a pizza lady with Kasey being a drug addict; I would be perfectly fine with that. But why, oh why, OH WHY, do you have to change the Mutant part to aliens?

Type with a straight face "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles will be Aliens instead of Mutants." You just can't do it. It's now Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles.

In the UK, they were called Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles.

Also, they could be mutant aliens.

Manchu wrote:In the UK, they were called Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles.

Also, they could be mutant aliens.

BLASPHEMER!

I'm the priest, your the BLASPHEMER!



Wait a second.....

Slarg232 wrote:
As long as the cast includes, but isn't limited to: Mikey, Donny, Ralph, Leo, Splinter, April, Shredder, and Kasey, I'm perfectly happy. Heck, go with the original comics, in which Shredder was the GOOD guy (His brother was killed by Master Yoshi, he killed Yoshi for revenge, which prompted Splinter and the turtles to seek revenge), and turn April into a pizza lady with Kasey being a drug addict; I would be perfectly fine with that. But why, oh why, OH WHY, do you have to change the Mutant part to aliens?

Type with a straight face "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles will be Aliens instead of Mutants." You just can't do it. It's now Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles.

Yoshi killed Uruku Nagi (Shredder's/Uruku Saki's younger brother) because Nagi beat Yoshi's girlfriend half to death for rejecting Nagi. I'm not really sure that justifies Saki as the "good" guy at all.

I pretty much agree with the rest. It isn't even that I'm comparing this to any episode of the cartoon show I grew up with. It's the simple fact that he's taking a franchise, and then changing it to suit his whims, rather than directing a movie about the franchise. They're the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yes, the comics include all sorts of shenanigans with aliens and dimensional hopping and stuff. Yes, the T.C.R.I. ooze that created them was the byproduct of an alien species (the Utrom, Krang's race, which in a split from the cartoon are NOT bad guys!). But the Turtles themselves are mutants, not aliens. It may seem a small dynamic, but as it's inexorably linked to the characters and their motivations, it's an important one. Giving them an alien homeworld (even if it's destroyed) distances the characters from Earth/New York, rather than having them desperately trying to be a part of it as the only home they've ever known, a home which won't accept them. They're not "freaks" if there's an entire planet/dimension of "mutant" animals out there.

Which raises another issue entirely: Splinter. I guess their home world is a whole huge mess of animals then? Or is Splinter from yet ANOTHER planet, with Krang from a third planet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:In the UK, they were called Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles.

Also, they could be mutant aliens.

Mutant aliens...

mutant

aliens

It wasn't enough that they were mutants to begin with, no no, now they're mutants... and aliens. Why? What in the world would be the point?

Simply put, Michael Bay has already taken one childhood franchise and turned it into a gak-sandwhich. Why in the world should I trust him with another, dearer franchise?

streamdragon wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:
As long as the cast includes, but isn't limited to: Mikey, Donny, Ralph, Leo, Splinter, April, Shredder, and Kasey, I'm perfectly happy. Heck, go with the original comics, in which Shredder was the GOOD guy (His brother was killed by Master Yoshi, he killed Yoshi for revenge, which prompted Splinter and the turtles to seek revenge), and turn April into a pizza lady with Kasey being a drug addict; I would be perfectly fine with that. But why, oh why, OH WHY, do you have to change the Mutant part to aliens?

Type with a straight face "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles will be Aliens instead of Mutants." You just can't do it. It's now Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles.

Yoshi killed Uruku Nagi (Shredder's/Uruku Saki's younger brother) because Nagi beat Yoshi's girlfriend half to death for rejecting Nagi. I'm not really sure that justifies Saki as the "good" guy at all.

DAMN YOU INTERNET!

It lied to me again

I could have sworn I read that Yoshi killed Uruku Nagi (Didn't even know his name), solely because they were fighting over the same woman; also, was Saki involved at all? Because it could have very well been a Scorpion/Subzero/Tundra thing going on; Scorpion killed Sub Zero, the evil, hate-filled, takes-pleasure-in-killing-everyone brother, and then Tundra, the younger, wiser and better adjusted brother dons Sub Zero's costume, steals his name, and goes on a rampage to avenge his brother.

In that case at least, it was a good man trying to avenge his brother, I don't know how Nagi/Saki went.

It wasn't enough that they were mutants to begin with, no no, now they're mutants... and aliens. Why? What in the world would be the point?

Does there need to be a point? I mean, what's the point of them being mutants? Well, I get what the point was in the comics -- but again I really doubt this movie will, or any TMNT movie could, actually be made for the reason that the comics were made. Aliens, mutants, it's all over the top nonsense setting up an action movie. Plus, even if Michael Bay were (or could be) 100% faithful to everything that you (or each and every individual fan of TMNT) like about the franchise, the film would still likely be complete garbage. The issue isn't Michael Bay messing around with the sacred scripture that is 80s kids' nostalgia. The issue is Michael Bay.

Well, that's one issue. The other issue is TMNT is a great illustration of why movies cannot replace comics. The comic book is a medium proper to itself. That medium can do things that movies cannot, just as movies can do things that comics cannot. The passage from comic book to children's show was not kind to TMNT. Hence my statement that fanbois howling for the blood of Bay should be a little more objective about how talentless the writers and producers of the old cartoon were. Talk about screwing over a franchise for a buck! (Do you remember the TMNT musical for heaven's sake?) And it's not like it stopped when that show went off the air, either.

Do you know what Michael Bay is doing? He is handling a property. I've learned that there is nothing sacred about any property by watching better directors than him feth up things a lot better than some ridiculous cartoon I loved as a five year old, which was just a property being handled back then although I didn't know it.