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In the spirit of big things though, dwarves might get some of their sillier stuff like in Blood Bowl

They'll probably fluff in some really large, odd, risky device you'd likely see from empire rather than the conservative dwarves.

Well the dwarves did have rules for that uber Zeplin in the BRB

Sirius42 wrote:

Dark elves- more expensive hydras, change to magic (losing the free spell and forcing at least 1 caster to take a certain lore), aside from that while I expect new toys i couldnt call them.

That free spell is what gives the Dark Elves their magical edge. They did write the rules (or lack of) as far as Sorcery goes, without which mages like Nagash would never have achieved their level of power. I can see the dangers of using it increasing in some way but not it being scrapped completely.

As for forcing them to take a certain lore (which would be Dark Magic as that's their signature lore), what would be the point other than making it so that every list contains multiple Sorceresses? There'd be one level 1 or 2 with Dark and you'd still have to deal with the Level 3 or 4 wielding Shadow.

As for new toys, I expect there'll be some big Khainite chariot thing (new Cauldron of Blood?) ridden by Witch Elves. A points increase for the Hydra.

Power of Darkness will probably be their Signature Spell and every Dark Elf wizard, regardless of lore, may swap one spell for PoD if they wish.

So a Lvl4 wizard with Shadow could swap any spell for either Miasma or PoD.


That would be different then other casters and still work within the existing mechanics.

-Loki- wrote:Dwarves not only don't use the magic phase, but actively discourage the opponents use of the magic phase. Rumours were they'd be getting 'magic' in the form of runes like the Storm of Magic runes.

Hmm...I suppose what I'd like to see, if Dwarfs were forced to be more similar in the magic-phase as all other armies, would simply change/add to the rules of the Anvil of Doom. Basically just make it closer to the Winds of Magic Magic Phase:
- instead of 3 separate rune strikes, make it 6, but none of which are game-changing, since all 6 would be accessible
- instead of having to roll 2+ or 4+, have the 6 separate runes require X amount to power to strike (maybe add the Runelord's Str - 4 - to the required striking power)
- keep the current mis-strike, have natural 2 or 3 always fail, etc
- make the Anvil much cheaper by removing some of its bonuses

...or if that all seems too drastic, then just lower its price and add some sort of Winds of Magic variables, if GW/players want Dwarfs to have a "proper" Magic Phase

Im ok with new woc.

Id like:
A cool new monster.

Usable shaggoth.

More options on knights.

Cheaper marauders (they are so over priced atm).

Marks doing different things depending if they are core or lord sort of thing.

Cool new weapons.

Access to more lores for casters.

4 Usable marks.

An auto win spell.

Maybe some new gear for warriors maybe a special rule for them or something.

I am clearly kidding about the marauder price as well as the auto win spell. But ya that would be nice

MoT won't stack. That's happening. I'd say most infantry will get more expensive with the bigger stuff getting cheaper. Throgg probably won't be as Throgglike. All those items are gone. The gifts get kicked in the teeth too. WoC will be crying a lot and will find few sympathetic ears methinks.

DoC, was just thinking about this yesterday. Beyond unit champs and banners and full command and swap-in heroes for unit champs, I don't think any model in the entire book has an option. Like shields. Or AHW. Or GW. Or stinging poison tail. Or extra ears. Nothing. Every Daemon that is below hero level is exactly the same no matter the army. I suspect that will change. I suspect lords will get cheaper by a lot. Bloodletters will get more expensive, if they do, plaguebearers might buff up to have a higher T or some kind of scaly skin. Not sure all the rest.

marielle wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brotherjanus wrote:My biggest concern for the new fantasy books is the trend for every army to get a monster/chariot/huge thing plus monstrous cav or infantry. With an army like Dwarfs those things don't fit.

Golems or similar thingies would fit in pretty well, no?

Zeppelins

With Longbeard paratroopers

well as Johny said there are rules in the BRB and it was in a Gotrek + Felix book or two >.>

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:The Dwarves need three things, no more, no less.

1) Updated lore, and maybe some new heroes~
2) New models~
3) Slightly updated rules~

If they TOUCH the Runes, someone will die~

I completely agree

I can imagine Gyrocopters becoming Special and cheaper, acting a bit like Pegasus Knights. I can see the Anvil changing to stop movement in out of the movement phase as well as having more spell-like properties. I can see the rune system being broadly the same, with some points changes and some of the lesser used runes culled....

For Dark Elves (a few of these will be repeats, but eh )

1. War Hydra points increase/stat reduction. This is a given, I think, and while I love my hydras to death, even I know I am getting a crazy bargain for their points.

2. Magic modification. I don't think they will be forced to use Dark Magic, but that is small potatoes. I would think that they'll continue on the trend of reckless magic use.

3. Item changes. Again, while I love my pendant of Everyone Hates Dark Elves For This Item, I can't see it surviving as a 35 point item. It'll either dramatically spike in points or change greatly in how it works, possibly a 5+ ward that becomes 4+ once the S of the attack hits a certain level?

4. Hopefully they'll drop the 20-man max size of Black Guard.

curran12 wrote:2. Magic modification. I don't think they will be forced to use Dark Magic, but that is small potatoes. I would think that they'll continue on the trend of reckless magic use.

Probably one of the casters will have to use it.

marielle wrote:

curran12 wrote:2. Magic modification. I don't think they will be forced to use Dark Magic, but that is small potatoes. I would think that they'll continue on the trend of reckless magic use.

Probably one of the casters will have to use it.

Why? Do any other armies have a requirement that a generic caster (so not the same as O&G where Goblins use one lore and Orcs use the other) use a specific lore when they have multiple lores available? Does one High Elf Mage have to take High Magic?

At the moment all the Dark Elf named characters who use magic are limited to Dark magic. I think that will stay for sure for Malekith and probably for Morathi.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

marielle wrote:

curran12 wrote:2. Magic modification. I don't think they will be forced to use Dark Magic, but that is small potatoes. I would think that they'll continue on the trend of reckless magic use.

Probably one of the casters will have to use it.

Why? Do any other armies have a requirement that a generic caster (so not the same as O&G where Goblins use one lore and Orcs use the other) use a specific lore when they have multiple lores available? Does one High Elf Mage have to take High Magic?

At the moment all the Dark Elf named characters who use magic are limited to Dark magic. I think that will stay for sure for Malekith and probably for Morathi.

Ogres do - unless you take the firebelly - Tomb Kings do, not sure about Vampires, but they wil probably take at least one because of the raising powers.

For VCs, if the General is a wizard he must use the Vampire lore IIRC.


So yeah, there are 3 factions with 8th edition books that have to use a specific lore.

Ogres: One butcher/slaughtermaster must have LotGM before any other lore is used.

Tomb Kings: The highest level caster has to have the Lore of Nehekara(unless you have one of the 2 special characters) IIRC

Vampire Counts: General, if a wizard, must have Lore of Vampires.


Something like that,

Dark Elves probably wouldn't have the lore mandated however. The above factions have a fluff need to have that lore before anything else, the Dark Elves are pragmatic enough that they wouldn't have to use Dark Magic.

Grey Templar wrote:For VCs, if the General is a wizard he must use the Vampire lore IIRC.

The general actually has to be a wizard. The highest level wizard is the general, and the general must use Lore of the Vampires. It's not possible to not have a Wizard general, as there is no stipulation for selecting a non-wizard general. Without a wizard, you cannot have a general.

I don't believe the highest level wizard has to be the General in a VC army, he just has to have the Vampire lore if he is a wizard.

Its how you can have a Goul King be your general while you have some lvl2 vampires with Shadow bang around.


I also think a Wight King can be the general.

A Town Called Malus wrote:Why? Do any other armies have a requirement that a generic caster use a specific lore when they have multiple lores available?

You mean like:

OnG
Ogres
VC
marked WoC
DoC
TK (limited)
Skaven

And probably more that I'm too lazy to think about. But basically everyone.

Grey Templar wrote:I don't believe the highest level wizard has to be the General in a VC army, he just has to have the Vampire lore if he is a wizard.

The general is automatically the wizard with the highest leadership. If you don't have a wizard, then there's no way to have a general.

DukeRustfield wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:Why? Do any other armies have a requirement that a generic caster use a specific lore when they have multiple lores available?

You mean like:

OnG
Ogres
VC
marked WoC
DoC
TK (limited)
Skaven

And probably more that I'm too lazy to think about. But basically everyone.

Skaven don't fit the criteria here. All their wizards use spells from the Skaven lores, Ruin and Plague, with some of them being free to mix and match from said lores. They don't have the option to use any lores but those two.

As for Marked Chaos, by giving them a mark you have limited them to one lore, that of their mark. So it's not the same as having a basic dark elf sorceress who has access to Shadow, Death, Metal, Fire and Dark but having a rule saying that she has to take Dark. What lores does an unmarked (if that is possible) chaos sorcerer have access to? Is there a rule saying that he must take one particular lore before any other lores are allowed in the army?

Orcs and Goblins again don't have access to any lores outside their own (except for Azhag or whoever it is, who gets it from a magic item), hence why they are limited to those ones.

Vampire Counts being limited to Lore of Vampires on the general is supported by fluff. That lore is what is keeping their army together. Without it they would have no army. Dark Elves have no such fluff. In fact their fluff would support them using spells from any lore, including the Chaos ones (especially Slaanesh).

Tomb Kings needing Lore of Nehekara is a fluff thing again. That lore is holding the army together. Without it there'd just be a pile of bones sitting on the floor.

Except the fluff also states that they instill their magic into each potential sorceress before she's allowed to move onto other magics, so the fluff would also support the main sorceress needing it.

I think that would be adaquatly represented by all Sorceresses being able to swap, regardless of lore, spells for Power of Darkness. It basically becomes a super sig spell.

A Town Called Malus wrote:Skaven don't fit the criteria here. All their wizards use spells from the Skaven lores, Ruin and Plague, with some of them being free to mix and match from said lores. They don't have the option to use any lores but those two.

Right. And that sucks. You're splitting hairs. Having to use a lore(s) < being able to choose any lore from the BRB. You local army book spells might be good, but at the start of every game you got 6-12 options as opposed to 56 options of vastly different composition.

DukeRustfield wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:Skaven don't fit the criteria here. All their wizards use spells from the Skaven lores, Ruin and Plague, with some of them being free to mix and match from said lores. They don't have the option to use any lores but those two.

Right. And that sucks. You're splitting hairs. Having to use a lore(s) < being able to choose any lore from the BRB. You local army book spells might be good, but at the start of every game you got 6-12 options as opposed to 56 options of vastly different composition.

I never said whether only having access to those lores was good or bad, just that it is not the same as a Skaven wizard having to take Ruin or Plague before other wizards in your army can take lores from the BRB.


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ZebioLizard2 wrote:Except the fluff also states that they instill their magic into each potential sorceress before she's allowed to move onto other magics, so the fluff would also support the main sorceress needing it.

Source? I can't find any mention of that in the current army book or the previous one. And surely the main sorceress would be the oldest and most powerful, so she would have access to more types of magic than a lower one.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:Skaven don't fit the criteria here. All their wizards use spells from the Skaven lores, Ruin and Plague, with some of them being free to mix and match from said lores. They don't have the option to use any lores but those two.

Right. And that sucks. You're splitting hairs. Having to use a lore(s) < being able to choose any lore from the BRB. You local army book spells might be good, but at the start of every game you got 6-12 options as opposed to 56 options of vastly different composition.

I never said whether only having access to those lores was good or bad, just that it is not the same as a Skaven wizard having to take Ruin or Plague before other wizards in your army can take lores from the BRB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Except the fluff also states that they instill their magic into each potential sorceress before she's allowed to move onto other magics, so the fluff would also support the main sorceress needing it.

Source? I can't find any mention of that in the current army book or the previous one. And surely the main sorceress would be the oldest and most powerful, so she would have access to more types of magic than a lower one.

Could have sworn it was around the fluff of the convents of sorceresses, I'll check through later, might be wrong though.

However it can go either way, they may or may not, ogre's have to take great maw, which is surprising. Empire doesn't have to take anything though, but for Elves they may be required to take High/Dark magic later on. But it's a random variable so it may or may not end up that way.

With the current trend of every army gets monstrous inf/cav i wouldnt be suprised to see dwarf bear riders.
It may not be in the dwarf lore/back ground, but GW has changed things in the past to suite the current incarnation of the game.

Im not sure what's next. I would like to think They would invest some time in Bretonnians or wood elves. It's been too long. Wood elves for me have always been akin to Dark eldar of 40K. When they do get an update, it's amazing....too bad you have to wait 10 years between updates.

I'd love to see an update to dwarves, but really the only thing id change is models. Plastic hammerers, slayers and iron breakers are a must. I'd like to see warriors redone as well, and long beards have their own model again (marshmellows anyone?). Some more special characters would be a good thing too. 3 special characters are great and all, but they all suffer from all eggs in one basket syndrom IMHO. They need some good hero models and characters to carry the units a bit more. Granted, dwarf heros are good enough as it!

Spazz wrote:With the current trend of every army gets monstrous inf/cav i wouldnt be suprised to see dwarf bear riders.
It may not be in the dwarf lore/back ground, but GW has changed things in the past to suite the current incarnation of the game.

Bear Cavalry, anyone?

Warriors really need it IMO

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spazz wrote:With the current trend of every army gets monstrous inf/cav i wouldnt be suprised to see dwarf bear riders.
It may not be in the dwarf lore/back ground, but GW has changed things in the past to suite the current incarnation of the game.

Bear Cavalry, anyone?

Anything that gets them out of playing a gunline is welcome.


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Johnny-Crass wrote:Warriors really need it IMO

Agreed.