Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

From the options given, Codex Chapters (Silver Skulls, etc..).

There's a near thousand of them and only one each of all the others given in the options above.

He means that the BT are a fleet chapter and spread all over the galaxy. They would take ages to group on the one planet, in which case those who arrive early lose patience and then attack and most likely die. Then the next wave arrive, and do the same, and the chapter attacks piecemeal and gets suckered.

Provided they everyone had ample time to come together as a full chapter then the BT would win, through sheer numbers alone.

Failing that then most of the smaller chapters would be squished instantly, the black templars would be caught in several small chunks and crushed and the space wolves would probably come out on top.

Nom

Plus, about the "codex chapters" option for people going "lol, there's way more of them", using common sense, it's fairly obvious the OP means any one of the other chapters not already specified (i.e: Silver skulls or death spectres or crimson fists, not all of those combined).

Plus a great deal of the codex chapters have been nearly wiped out (scythes of the emporer, crimson fists, lamenters etc..) so wouldn't really be in any place to win unless they sat on the sidelines and waited for the last marine standing, stomped on him and pretended it was all them lol

Nom

White scars, because they're my favorite, and the only Asians I've ever seen in universe.

I say Imperial Fists. Those guys lead the defense of Terra during the Heresy, I'd be afraid of what guns you'd have to face going after them. Besides, the Fists know their way around battlements.

I have to respectfully disagree with the "Space Wolves were made to kill marines" theory at this point. The Space Wolves were used to deal with the Thousand Sons because they were dogmatically loyal and ruthless. They got an order and they were damn sure going to carry it out. The Big E ever intended for them to kill the TS, it was Horus who persuaded Russ to try to kill them. They were not designed to kill marines anymore than the other chapters were, they were just more likely to keep going after their targets until they or their opponents were all dead or they were called off.

Castiel wrote:I have to respectfully disagree with the "Space Wolves were made to kill marines" theory at this point. The Space Wolves were used to deal with the Thousand Sons because they were dogmatically loyal and ruthless. They got an order and they were damn sure going to carry it out. The Big E ever intended for them to kill the TS, it was Horus who persuaded Russ to try to kill them. They were not designed to kill marines anymore than the other chapters were, they were just more likely to keep going after their targets until they or their opponents were all dead or they were called off.

It's implied they were created to be the ultimate sanction for an SM legion (Back during the GC)
It is also implied they were the ones to end either or both Lost Legions...

purplefood wrote:

Castiel wrote:I have to respectfully disagree with the "Space Wolves were made to kill marines" theory at this point. The Space Wolves were used to deal with the Thousand Sons because they were dogmatically loyal and ruthless. They got an order and they were damn sure going to carry it out. The Big E ever intended for them to kill the TS, it was Horus who persuaded Russ to try to kill them. They were not designed to kill marines anymore than the other chapters were, they were just more likely to keep going after their targets until they or their opponents were all dead or they were called off.

It's implied they were created to be the ultimate sanction for an SM legion (Back during the GC)
It is also implied they were the ones to end either or both Lost Legions...

I know that it is implied that they were used against the lost legions. I have never been a great subscriber to the idea that they were all created with a purpose in mind though.

shrike wrote:Plus, about the "codex chapters" option for people going "lol, there's way more of them", using common sense, it's fairly obvious the OP means any one of the other chapters not already specified (i.e: Silver skulls or death spectres or crimson fists, not all of those combined).

Still, with, going by the fluff highly literally, 1000 Chapters in the ring, 9 of which are Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Space Wolves, Raven Guard and White Scars, as well as 991 who are from the 2nd Option, it doesn't seem improbable that it'll be one from the 991 that will be the last one standing.

Also, in this sort of Free-For-All Space Marine Chapter Version of Hunger Games implied by the OP, I would strongly expect Templars (and chapters with similar disposition), even if fully assembled, to be the first ones out. They'd just charge in with no concern for "wait and see" or "lets look for allies". They'd be the first one to die by the Boltfire and Bolt-crossfire of at least 500 Chapters or so.

If anyone not from the 99,1% was to win (still improbable), I would guess it would be Ultramarines, simply because they likely command the most respect and have the most allies among those 991 other chapters. Unknowns and lonely rogues like Grey Knights or Space Wolves would be similarly dead by the end of the first shooting phase.

Speaking of the Hunger games, the new movie is not the best.

The story really needs to have the gory and you need to see the deaths to have meaning. Not just a swing of the sword, a noise off screen and blood on the ground. They should have made it a 15 rather than 12A and put in the guts, so to speak.





Anyway, I'll stickwith Minotaurs. They, ARE actually designed to kill rogue marines.

Deadshot wrote:Speaking of the Hunger games, the new movie is not the best.

The story really needs to have the gory and you need to see the deaths to have meaning. Not just a swing of the sword, a noise off screen and blood on the ground. They should have made it a 15 rather than 12A and put in the guts, so to speak.





Anyway, I'll stickwith Minotaurs. They, ARE actually designed to kill rogue marines.

Speaking of Hunger Games, making it a gory movie would have added alot of strange double layers by making a movie about a society of sadistic voyeurs that takes pleasure in the gory death of teenagers, which would try to lure in the audience on the pretext of offering an opportunity for sadistic voyeurs to take pleasure in the gory (fake-)death of teenagers. Even more so, as the film/book also runs a strong sub-theme of "reality-tv" formats and slasher films hat prosper by catering to sadistic voyeurs that take pleasure in watching real humiliation and/or gory deaths of (ideally) teenagers.

That was the whole point of the book. The movie basically killed the storyline.

Its like if they showed the Titanic without it sinking.

Deadshot wrote:That was the whole point of the book. The movie basically killed the storyline.

Its like if they showed the Titanic without it sinking.

I don't think that was the whole point. It was just as much a country-girl coming to the big city, coming of age, rebelling against authority, confused first romance, fashion-hollering, dealing with celebrity, girl-scout outdoor adventure set against a setting that also ran themes of authoritarian state, oppression and a public kept docile by "panem et circenses". It was perhaps the one theme in the book most interesting to you. It certainly wasn't the whole point though.

Getting off topic here though I feel.

Dark Angels... just cuz...

I got excited by the title....

I thought it said a Marine free World....

Oh well.. Back to staring at power armour again =[

Castiel wrote:I have to respectfully disagree with the "Space Wolves were made to kill marines" theory at this point. The Space Wolves were used to deal with the Thousand Sons because they were dogmatically loyal and ruthless. They got an order and they were damn sure going to carry it out. The Big E ever intended for them to kill the TS, it was Horus who persuaded Russ to try to kill them. They were not designed to kill marines anymore than the other chapters were, they were just more likely to keep going after their targets until they or their opponents were all dead or they were called off.

LR and Big E said they were made to kill other marines.

Lobukia wrote:

Castiel wrote:I have to respectfully disagree with the "Space Wolves were made to kill marines" theory at this point. The Space Wolves were used to deal with the Thousand Sons because they were dogmatically loyal and ruthless. They got an order and they were damn sure going to carry it out. The Big E ever intended for them to kill the TS, it was Horus who persuaded Russ to try to kill them. They were not designed to kill marines anymore than the other chapters were, they were just more likely to keep going after their targets until they or their opponents were all dead or they were called off.

LR and Big E said they were made to kill other marines.

Where? I may have missed that reference.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Dark Angels... just cuz...

I AGREE WITH THIS STRANGER. *walks away to drink milk in a shoe*

I think its dangerous to hold up a Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns as "Space Wolves canon". They are marvelous books. Fantastic reads. But they are also an attempt by BL to do something "different", and to pull it off they had to wing it a few time and stretch a few concept to make it work. Side-by-side with 99% of the existing Space Wolves stuff, the discrepancies are rather obvious.

That is not to say those books are bad. For many, they are arguably better than the "core" fluff for Space Wolves. Perhaps they can serve as a nice inspiration for some future ret-con. But as of now, they don't really synch with the general theme of Space Wolves elsewhere.

Castiel wrote:

Lobukia wrote:

Castiel wrote:I have to respectfully disagree with the "Space Wolves were made to kill marines" theory at this point. The Space Wolves were used to deal with the Thousand Sons because they were dogmatically loyal and ruthless. They got an order and they were damn sure going to carry it out. The Big E ever intended for them to kill the TS, it was Horus who persuaded Russ to try to kill them. They were not designed to kill marines anymore than the other chapters were, they were just more likely to keep going after their targets until they or their opponents were all dead or they were called off.

LR and Big E said they were made to kill other marines.

Where? I may have missed that reference.

Battle of the Fang, chapter 19, page 418 (according to Lexicanum).

I haven't got my copy available at the moment so cannot verify.


EDIT;

"It was the Allfather who created Leman Russ, theprimogenitor of the Vlka Fenryka , and the Allfather who fashioned the Legion that served under his name. For every Legion he created, there was a purpose. Some were blessed with the power to build,or the skill to administer, or the capacity for stealth. Our gift was different. We were made to destroy. Our whole being is destruction. Such was the will of the Allfather. He made us not to construct empires but to murder them. We were bred to perform the tasks that no other Legion could, to fight with such extravagance that even our brother warriors would shrink from treachery in the knowledge of what we, the Rout,would do to them.‘That power was exercised more than once. Most famously, as you know, against the enemy who now hammers at our doors. But, for all our zeal, we failed in the task of protection. Treachery came, falling like lightning from heaven, and the galaxy was consumedby the fire of betrayal. Though the blackest evil was staunched, much that was great and good was lost.The Imperium is a bleaker place now, and the visionsof its founders languish, still-born and unrealised. We know this, we who preserve the sagas of old. Though many others who rely on the uncertain transmission of the written word and the recorded vox-pattern have forgotten those days, we, who live by the recitation of the skjalds, remember them all. We know what we were. We know what we were intended to be



and of course this;

Just watch the first 20 seconds.







....

Also somewhere in First Heretic.

Edit, Sorry, I meant Prospero Burns, though FH may have it too.

The first one sounds like the Space Wolves own opinion.

The video suggests more that Emperor knew that the SWs were very dangerous, but allowed them to exist as they might be needed to destroy another Legion.

I'd need to see it stated outright before I would fully believe it.

Castiel wrote:The first one sounds like the Space Wolves own opinion.

The video suggests more that Emperor knew that the SWs were very dangerous, but allowed them to exist as they might be needed to destroy another Legion.

I'd need to see it stated outright before I would fully believe it.

I have no idea how to respond to that...

OK?.....I guess....

Steelmage99 wrote:

Castiel wrote:The first one sounds like the Space Wolves own opinion.

The video suggests more that Emperor knew that the SWs were very dangerous, but allowed them to exist as they might be needed to destroy another Legion.

I'd need to see it stated outright before I would fully believe it.

I have no idea how to respond to that...

OK?.....I guess....

Sorry if I seem like I'm being stubborn or anything, and I certainly don't mean to be rude and if I gave that impression I apologise. I just mean that there isn't concrete evidence provided to suggest that the Space Marine Legions were designed with individual purposes in mind. There are hints that they might have been, but they mostly seem to be (at least in my eyes) the interpretations of characters and groups in universe to explain the Legions and why they are good at what they do. I haven't seen anything yet that really makes me believe that they were created for purposes rather than being shaped by their upbringings.

I have a feeling the GK would win simply by using their Inquisitors to call down exterminatus on the battlefield.

Chesh wrote:I have a feeling the GK would win simply by using their Inquisitors to call down exterminatus on the battlefield.

Inquisitors (and other allies) were explicitly ruled out in the OP.

Inquisitors are part of the GK 'dex, and can be taken as HQs - can't they?

Chesh wrote:Inquisitors are part of the GK 'dex, and can be taken as HQs - can't they?

But they have no access to exterminatus in the dex. If that's the angle you wanna take. Also, I didn~t make the rules in the OP. I am sure you can find things that are far more questionable about them than the lack of conformity to Codex army lists.