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What would happen if Blood Angels found the planet and had bathed in the blood of the pure Sisters?

There would be even MORE assertions that the Blood Angels had gone over the edge.

That's exactly what happened here - if any Imperial army, Guard, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, any of them, landed on a planet and then bathed in the blood of the slaughtered local Sisters convent, I think they would be considered pretty fethed up.

there also isn't anything that says the sisters didn't just pump the blood out through a machine and simply died as a result.

I think the ripping apart of them is a tad gruesome and unbecoming.

HOWEVER, I do have a problem with this. the armor and black carapace that ALL marines have is impervious to liquids and even space so long as they're wearing their helmet. its a closed loop system.

so a group of marines could be walking through a lake of blood and be just fine.

Unit1126PLL wrote:What would happen if Blood Angels found the planet and had bathed in the blood of the pure Sisters?

There would be even MORE assertions that the Blood Angels had gone over the edge.

That's exactly what happened here - if any Imperial army, Guard, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, any of them, landed on a planet and then bathed in the blood of the slaughtered local Sisters convent, I think they would be considered pretty fethed up.

While true, the Gray knights do work for the inquisition. It may not be listed, but you better believe they were tested for corruption after they got back. As the unit was not purged (that we know of) then it is assumed no corruption was found.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:What would happen if Blood Angels found the planet and had bathed in the blood of the pure Sisters?

There would be even MORE assertions that the Blood Angels had gone over the edge.

That's exactly what happened here - if any Imperial army, Guard, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, any of them, landed on a planet and then bathed in the blood of the slaughtered local Sisters convent, I think they would be considered pretty fethed up.

While true, the Gray knights do work for the inquisition. It may not be listed, but you better believe they were tested for corruption after they got back. As the unit was not purged (that we know of) then it is assumed no corruption was found.

Or some radical Inquisitor decided that having a group of Grey Knights tainted by Chaos would be a good idea. It's not all that unusual (Chaos tainted Iron Men being one example of precedent).

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:What would happen if Blood Angels found the planet and had bathed in the blood of the pure Sisters?

There would be even MORE assertions that the Blood Angels had gone over the edge.

That's exactly what happened here - if any Imperial army, Guard, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, any of them, landed on a planet and then bathed in the blood of the slaughtered local Sisters convent, I think they would be considered pretty fethed up.

While true, the Gray knights do work for the inquisition. It may not be listed, but you better believe they were tested for corruption after they got back. As the unit was not purged (that we know of) then it is assumed no corruption was found.

I understand your point, but our problem lies with the supposed "necessity" of the action.

The reason our Knights in Shining Armor bathed in the Sister's blood is to avoid being corrupted. Unfortunately, they've already been described as literally incorruptible. There was no reason for them to do that, except "just because."

Wow.. somethings do in fact never die.

It really does come down to a conception of how you view the GK.

I'm no Ward-hater myself (in fact i kinda think the whole Fanboy vs. Hater thing is a bit overblown) - but from a purely literary sense the whole incident just doesn't make much sense at all.

Yes of course, you can invent a rational for it - this is fiction after all - but for many folks the whole incident seemed less about adding something substantial to the fluff-mythology underlying the GK and more of a "let's stick something shocking in to illustrate how UberMacho/Devoted/Psychotic the GK are to their cause."


On another note - there's been a lot of talk recently in one of the other forums about "Where are all the chicks?" ie: Female Wargamers (as there are much rarer breed than female video gamers or even roleplayers).

Yeah this..



..doesn't really help out in that matter.

Well that and some of those Sister Repentia models as well .

The overall point (something that 1d4chan and others have picked up on) is that the trajectory for the Sisters of Battle has not been so much "Loyal fanatical warriors dying for the Glory of the Imperium and the Emperor" but rather "Favored Target to get Slaughtered in order to highlight another group's Super Coolness."

They are the Mooks of the Imperium.


Now i know that some of the unenlightened may ascribe to the addage that women are not good fighters in comparison to we males of the species.


To which i'd like to offer an Empirical Experiment (verified by a number of friends and relatives engaged in law enforcement):


-----> Present a Credible Threat to a Woman's Child.


I bear no responsiblity to what may happen to you...and wish you the best of luck if you should happen to survive the encounter.

They are or may be incorruptible however from what has been said the tide was not a corruption. it was an infection that was tainted with chaos. There could have been many reasons to do so. Its not like this is the first time the servants of the inquisition have done distasteful things for the greater good.

@ Durza, this is also a possibility. I do not think it gives enough detail to rule either out really.

Hunterindarkness wrote:They are or may be incorruptible however from what has been said the tide was not a corruption. it was an infection that was tainted with chaos. There could have been many reasons to do so. Its not like this is the first time the servants of the inquisition have done distasteful things for the greater good.

@ Durza, this is also a possibility. I do not think it gives enough detail to rule either out really.

And how was this infection, which some regular-human Sisters were able to fight off, going to infect sealed-armor Space Marines?

And there weren't any reasons to do so. That's the problem. List one, true, useful, and unarguable reason for the Knights to slaughter the Sisters and anoint themselves with their blood. Name one.

And the Inquisitors who do such a thing to a Sisters convent would almost automatically be Denounced, probably by a member of the Ordo Hereticus.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

And how was this infection, which some regular-human Sisters were able to fight off, going to infect sealed-armor Space Marines?

And there weren't any reasons to do so. That's the problem. List one, true, useful, and unarguable reason for the Knights to slaughter the Sisters and anoint themselves with their blood. Name one.

And the Inquisitors who do such a thing to a Sisters convent would almost automatically be Denounced, probably by a member of the Ordo Hereticus.

Sigh, no reason you know of. How long is the info? A paragraph? Two? three lines? And while Inquisitors might be denounced, but would be studies and may be exonerated. They have done, far, far worse in the name of the emperor then bathing in blood. They have killed whole worlds,Damned millions to death, killed without remorse or second thought, consorted with bound demons maybe even used xeno or chaos tainted artifacts. This does not mean each one that has done this has been hunted down and killed.

You honestly think "Bathing in blood" ranks all that high on the "Bad gak for the Emperor" List? It may not even make the top 50 bad things the inquisition has done list.

Also on the sealed armor. That does not always work it seems, the IoM seems to have more then a few viral agents that can eat though the armors weak points. Any battle damage would also compromise the seals. Simply put without a great deal more detail then we have you can not say one way or the other if it was necessary or not. The fact they did it, points to the thought at the time that is was .

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:

And how was this infection, which some regular-human Sisters were able to fight off, going to infect sealed-armor Space Marines?

And there weren't any reasons to do so. That's the problem. List one, true, useful, and unarguable reason for the Knights to slaughter the Sisters and anoint themselves with their blood. Name one.

And the Inquisitors who do such a thing to a Sisters convent would almost automatically be Denounced, probably by a member of the Ordo Hereticus.

Sigh, no reason you know of. How long is the info? A paragraph? Two? three lines? And while Inquisitors might be denounced, but would be studies and may be exonerated. They have done, far, far worse in the name of the emperor then bathing in blood. They have killed whole worlds,Damned millions to death, killed without remorse or second thought, consorted with bound demons maybe even used xeno or chaos tainted artifacts. This does not mean each one that has done this has been hunted down and killed.

You honestly think "Bathing in blood" ranks all that high on the "Bad gak for the Emperor" List? It may not even make the top 50 bad things the inquisition has done list.

Also on the sealed armor. That does not always work it seems, the IoM seems to have more then a few viral agents that can eat though the armors weak points. Any battle damage would also compromise the seals. Simply put without a great deal more detail then we have you can not say one way or the other if it was necessary or not. The fact they did it, points to the thought at the time that is was .

No reason that anyone knows of. Why assume something when there is NO evidence given that it exists?

Yes, some Inquisitors are pretty bad, and even if they're tolerated, they're considered Radical. So I can compromise and consider the Grey Knights to be Radicals. Which puts them on the same level as the Relictors chapter.
And as an aside on the same topic - actually, many Inquisitors get exonerated of their "eviller" actions because they can prove it was necessary. There is nothing to suggest here that the bathing-in-blood ritual was necessary.

It's a fallacy to say that "Because we don't have all the info, we can't make a judgement." Information that is not given, unless it is stated that there is more information, should not be presumed to exist.
Just as an example: If Guardsman Billy says "The enemy are attacking to our front!" General William need not wonder if the guardsman omitted information about gigantic green space cats attacking too. It is simply assumed that there is no more relevant information.

As for the bolded part: "Or it points to the fact that they're Radical Khorne worshippers!" How's that for a conclusion based on the same data?

squidhills wrote:

Durza wrote:Alternatively, the Sisters could have been gaining the upper hand in a battle, and the Knights decided to kill them and Leeroy Jenkins their way to victory. There's just no way of knowing.

Omegus wrote:Which one is more likely? There's your answer.

Given the hamfisted, over the top, turned to 11, AWESEOME!!!!111 the rest of the codex is written in? I'm going with Leeroy Jenkins.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Of course, Ward's GK would go Leeroy Jenkins. But the likelihood that Sisters were gaining an upper hand in battle against anything is frankly ludicrously small. Look at almost every other piece of Sisters fluff post-Vandire. All they do is die. They are worse than guardsmen.

sigh, what ever helps you deal with your dislike man. I just find it funny some people assume there is no reason and it was just for random LuLz. Its like assuming that the any world proclaimed tainted and destroyed without 90 pages of explaining just why was for gaks and giggles.

We have the info, they did it. That is all the info we have. with that info there are two outcomes as to why it was done, You can assume They did it for laughs or they had a reason. Most people assume they had a reason if they did something like that. I mean if they had stated they burned the world because they thought it was tainted would that have been "Just because as well?"

Until more info is printed those are your options. You seem to like the first option for some reason.

Right, they bathe in the blood of the innocent for fun, not for Khorne.

Hunterindarkness wrote:sigh, what ever helps you deal with your dislike man. I just find it funny some people assume there is no reason and it was just for random LuLz. Its like assuming that the any world proclaimed tainted and destroyed without 90 pages of explaining just why was for gaks and giggles.

We have the info, they did it. That is all the info we have. with that info there are two outcomes as to why it was done, You can assume They did it for laughs or they had a reason. Most people assume they had a reason if they did something like that. I mean if they had stated they burned the world because they thought it was tainted would that have been "Just because as well?"

Until more info is printed those are your options. You seem to like the first option for some reason.

Oh, I presume lots of reasons, each of which equally plausible given the existing data:

1) FOR KHORNE!
2) FOR KHAINE!
3) FOR THE NIGHTBRINGER!
4) FOR LULZ!
5) FOR MISOGYNISM!

See the problem yet?

Melissia wrote:Right, they bathe in the blood of the innocent for fun, not for Khorne.

Since when is Khrone not fun?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Unit1126PLL wrote:
5) FOR MISOGYNISM!

See the problem yet?

This seems to be hard wired into the whole history of the IoM and not just the gray knights. The Sisters, from what I can tell ,exist to be killed in as many bloody and painful way as someone can think up. And then folks wonder why people hate SoB.

As for the rest, what we have been told that they were not corrupted. So that pretty much puts us back to luLZ or had a reason.

Hunterindarkness wrote:Since when is Khrone not fun?

Since the Fall of the Eldar.

Melissia wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:Since when is Khrone not fun?

Since the Fall of the Eldar.

Still seems fun to me, even if not as fun as torturer porn. Still ranks higher then plague boy and Mr. Wizard, IMHO.

Mr. Wizard gives you trippy dreams, man.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:What would happen if Blood Angels found the planet and had bathed in the blood of the pure Sisters?

There would be even MORE assertions that the Blood Angels had gone over the edge.

That's exactly what happened here - if any Imperial army, Guard, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, any of them, landed on a planet and then bathed in the blood of the slaughtered local Sisters convent, I think they would be considered pretty fethed up.

While true, the Gray knights do work for the inquisition. It may not be listed, but you better believe they were tested for corruption after they got back. As the unit was not purged (that we know of) then it is assumed no corruption was found.

I understand your point, but our problem lies with the supposed "necessity" of the action.

The reason our Knights in Shining Armor bathed in the Sister's blood is to avoid being corrupted. Unfortunately, they've already been described as literally incorruptible. There was no reason for them to do that, except "just because."

And here we go again.


Grey Knights are Spiritually incorruptable. They will never bow to chaos or serve them willingly.

They are only extremely resistant to physical corruption.


Chaos can still kill you and do nasty things with your body but it will never be consentual. Basically the only way Chaos can get some GK snu-snu is to rape them. They can be overpowered, they cannot be corrupted.

The Bloodtide could kill the GKs. It might even drive them mad, but it would never cause them to become servents of Khorne.


The GKs needed to be able to wade through the Bloodtide to get to the epicenter and destroy it. They couldn't be sure they wouldn't die before they got there, in which case everyone would have died in vain. So they took the only thing they had avaliable that could resist the Bloodtide, the Sisters blood.

Was it a horrible thing? Yeah, but it was required to get the mission done. And thats what the GKs do. They have to combat the daemon, no matter the cost.

Melissia wrote:Mr. Wizard gives you trippy dreams, man.

Which is why he ranks higher then Plague boy. I think freaking everyone ranks Higher then Plague boy, though.

Grey Templar wrote:
Grey Knights are Spiritually incorruptable. They will never bow to chaos or serve them willingly.

They are only extremely resistant to physical corruption.


Chaos can still kill you and do nasty things with your body but it will never be consentual. Basically the only way Chaos can get some GK snu-snu is to rape them. They can be overpowered, they cannot be corrupted.

The Bloodtide could kill the GKs. It might even drive them mad, but it would never cause them to become servents of Khorne.

My main problem with this "It could kill the GKs, or drive them mad" is that the Bloodtide was resisted by some of the Sisters of Battle. Normal, mortal humans. To say that the Grey Knights couldn't resist the effects of the Bloodtide while the Sisters can is to say that the Sisters should be doing the GKs job!

Grey Templar wrote:
The GKs needed to be able to wade through the Bloodtide to get to the epicenter and destroy it. They couldn't be sure they wouldn't die before they got there, in which case everyone would have died in vain. So they took the only thing they had avaliable that could resist the Bloodtide, the Sisters blood.

Was it a horrible thing? Yeah, but it was required to get the mission done. And thats what the GKs do. They have to combat the daemon, no matter the cost.

Again, this follows on flawed reasoning.

If a few of the mortal, human Sisters can resist the effects of the Bloodtide, surely an incorruptible demi-god superhuman could! Without needing to bathe in the mortal's blood.

Omegus wrote:But the likelihood that Sisters were gaining an upper hand in battle against anything is frankly ludicrously small. Look at almost every other piece of Sisters fluff post-Vandire. All they do is die. They are worse than guardsmen.

And Omegus pulls the words right out of my mouth.

Especially the:

All they do is die.

Which is precisely the problem. For a "special faction" that supposed to stand out from the Imperial Guardsmen ~ whose operative role in most fiction that doesn't focus on the heroic exploits of "a Comissar and his crew who are "different" is to essentially die - they perform even worse than the IG.

The SoB have a direct tie to the Emperor through the Living Saints. Somehow this gives them additional resistance to Chaos on a physical level.


I am more inclined to chalf the incident up to the Sister's fluff being so horribly non-existant that there are some flaws. Which unfortunantly makes it into other fluff and screws it up.

That and GW has some wierd urge to beat up on the SoB for no apparent reason. Even their own codex has them dying all the time.

Yes, GW is quite stupid in that regard.

Grey Templar wrote:The SoB have a direct tie to the Emperor through the Living Saints. Somehow this gives them additional resistance to Chaos on a physical level.

So you admit, then, that the Sisters are more capable of doing the GKs job then the GKs, since their helmetless, mortal-human selves can survive where no Space Marine dare tread.

Curious.

Also, hilarious. My respect for factions in numbers:

Sisters +10; total: 37/50
Guard +5; total: 44/50
Space Marines; -20: 4/50
Grey Knights; -30: -30/50

Unit1126PLL wrote:
My main problem with this "It could kill the GKs, or drive them mad" is that the Bloodtide was resisted by some of the Sisters of Battle. Normal, mortal humans. To say that the Grey Knights couldn't resist the effects of the Bloodtide while the Sisters can is to say that the Sisters should be doing the GKs job!

Not everything is so cut and dry. Say Sisters have a 10% chance to pass their fortitude check not to flip out or explode. Grey Knights, on the other hand, have a 95% chance to resist. Since a single Grey Knight is way more valuable than even a 100 Sisters, killing a few dozen stragglers to eliminate that 5% seems like a good idea.

Their reputation for incorruptibility stems from none ever having been corrupted. So there's also the possibility that the reason none have ever fallen is because they take every precaution they can.

Yes, our dear Matthew is an awful writer. Yes, this particular piece is among the most ambiguous and befuddling. Yes, we have to infer a rationale that lets their actions make sense. But it's still far easier to mesh with existing fluff that they had a good reason, rather than just going "lulz dey worship Khorne". Frankly, the latter viewpoint can only be held by someone who is being intentionally obtuse, which is otherwise known as trolling.

Omegus wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:
My main problem with this "It could kill the GKs, or drive them mad" is that the Bloodtide was resisted by some of the Sisters of Battle. Normal, mortal humans. To say that the Grey Knights couldn't resist the effects of the Bloodtide while the Sisters can is to say that the Sisters should be doing the GKs job!

Not everything is so cut and dry. Say Sisters have a 10% chance to pass their fortitude check not to flip out or explode. Grey Knights, on the other hand, have a 95% chance to resist. Since a single Grey Knight is way more valuable than even a 100 Sisters, killing a few dozen stragglers to eliminate that 5% seems like a good idea.

Their reputation for incorruptibility stems from none ever having been corrupted. So there's also the possibility that the reason none have ever fallen is because they take every precaution they can.

Yes, our dear Matthew is an awful writer. Yes, this particular piece is among the most ambiguous and befuddling. Yes, we have to infer a rationale that lets their actions make sense. But it's still far easier to mesh with existing fluff that they had a good reason, rather than just going "lulz dey worship Khorne".

I thought their codex stated that they were literally incorruptible.

If it's just a reputation from all their precautions, then all the uproar against fallen Grey Knights makes no sense, since in the entire galaxy, it's possible that Brother Alphonso forgot to use the right kind of dish soap on his body armor.

They never forget, the dish soap is dispensed from their nipples.

Iranna wrote:

American English differs from "Proper" English in many of its word's spellings. Gray is one of such words.

Actually its the other way around. The spelling of Grey and the addition of things like the ou in colour (vs. color) occurred after the colonies split from the Empire, ergo we are the ones speaking 'proper' English while British English is a more recent evolution of the language.

Anyway, to the matter at hand, people who are saying that it was an act of dedication to Khorne, or who just generally think it to be poor writing, lack reading comprehension as well as a thorough lack of understanding of older fluff. Additionally, the piece is written to be purposely ambiguous to make us think along these lines to add some depth and flavor and de-marysue-ify the faction. That is all.

Grey Templar wrote:I am more inclined to chalf the incident up to the Sister's fluff being so horribly non-existant that there are some flaws. Which unfortunantly makes it into other fluff and screws it up.

That and GW has some wierd urge to beat up on the SoB for no apparent reason. Even their own codex has them dying all the time.

That's pretty much my problem with the whole GK incident. Its not about the rational behind their actions.

It is fiction after all - and rationals can always be invented (now whether or not everyone accepts those reasons.. )

Rather, its just another domino in a very very long line of "let's beat on the SoB."

Literally every other faction has their day in the sun. Tyranids devour worlds, Chaos corrupts countless, Tau forcibly convert/peacefully convince folks to join the Greater Good, Space Marines wipe out evil threat, IG suffers massive casualities but hold the line.


the SoB? Just keeps on dying.

I can't even understand this from a purely business perspective - no one would ever want to play a faction whose role is predominantely that of victim.