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jgehunter wrote:And I shall ask again, how does?:

women getting killed in the 40k universe = Misogyny

If instead of sisters they killed guardsmen, there would still be debate over it but, would you say it is "casual Misandry"

Killing defenseless nuns = misogyny.

Killing male soldiers = war.

Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

I think the Blood Tide tries to emulate the witch hunters and Inquisition of the Medieval Ages. They are performing atrocities, but do so in the name of good/God/The Emperor. Countless innocents died in the Medieval Ages in the name of God and the Grey Knights are very heavily themed on the institutions that perpetuated these acts.

It still surprises me that people are shocked at the Grey Knight fluff, when it's almost a mirror of history.

Platuan4th wrote:
Killing defenseless nuns = misogyny.
Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

And nothing says they aren't....

whitedragon wrote:
That's kinda the point isn't it? Aside from you glossing over the points I made, the authors want to tell us the sisters probably weren't killed nicely. And there are things known as "context clues" that can help us determine what was going on at the time of the bloodtide, and I'd say the evidence points more strongly towards sister blood getting splattered all over the place vice calmly placing them in the "sister blood juicer" and then letting them expire peacefully.

So knowing that, which you admit to yourself that it was not good, nice or shiny, we can only conclude that Khorne was just as pleased that sisters died and whether they were killed by the Bloodtide, Chaos Warriors, or Grey Knights, Khorne was still just as pleased. It almost makes you wonder if that wasn't what Khorne had in mind all along? As we all know, the path to damnation is paved with good intentions.

I did not gloss over your point, I honestly didn''t see one. There are many context clues listed, none point to anything you said. They do not point to blood scarifce, they do not point to body hacking and they do not point to bloodbathing. Khorne was not pleased, the GK do not feed him, that is one thing they can not do. The warp Gods and other warp entities can not feed off GK's. That is stated on page 7 in black and white. They can do the vilest, foulest warp endorsed sorcery with zero fallout to themselves and none to the warp critters. And the SoD death was not even big enough for a real footnote of vile things the Inquisition have done, even the most puritan would have not blinked at bio-bombing the whole world and counting any "friendlies" as acceptable loses with a shrug.

So no, the warp gods were not happy, the daemons where not happy. They did not get feed and in fact the sisters death lead to the destruction of chaos's forces that day, they died for the good of the IoM. I really wish people would read things they use in place of repeating false info others have stated online.

Platuan4th wrote:
Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?
They are specifically referred to as Sister of Battle in the Blood Tide. Have you read the story?
Are you trolling?

edits: getting quotes working

Dunwich wrote:I think the Blood Tide tries to emulate the witch hunters and Inquisition of the Medieval Ages. They are performing atrocities, but do so in the name of good/God/The Emperor. Countless innocents died in the Medieval Ages in the name of God and the Grey Knights are very heavily themed on the institutions that perpetuated these acts.

It still surprises me that people are shocked at the Grey Knight fluff, when it's almost a mirror of history.

Total agreement. The SoB thing is blown way out of proportion, and many add falsehoods that are not in the book. The Inquisition does way, way worse things then killing a few nuns for the greater good. Every.Single.Day. And twice on Tuesdays.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

whitedragon wrote:
That's kinda the point isn't it? Aside from you glossing over the points I made, the authors want to tell us the sisters probably weren't killed nicely. And there are things known as "context clues" that can help us determine what was going on at the time of the bloodtide, and I'd say the evidence points more strongly towards sister blood getting splattered all over the place vice calmly placing them in the "sister blood juicer" and then letting them expire peacefully.

So knowing that, which you admit to yourself that it was not good, nice or shiny, we can only conclude that Khorne was just as pleased that sisters died and whether they were killed by the Bloodtide, Chaos Warriors, or Grey Knights, Khorne was still just as pleased. It almost makes you wonder if that wasn't what Khorne had in mind all along? As we all know, the path to damnation is paved with good intentions.

I did not gloss over your point, I honestly didn''t see one. There are many context clues listed, none point to anything you said . They do not point to blood scarifce, they do not point to body hacking and they do not point to bloodbathing. Khorne was not pleased, the GK do not feed him, that is one thing they can not do. The warp Gods and other warp entities can not feed off GK's. That is stated on page 7 in black and white. They can do the vilest, foulest warp endorsed sorcery with zero fallout to themselves and none to the warp critters. And the SoD death was not even big enough for a real footnote of vile things the Inquisition have done, even the most puritan would have not blinked at bio-bombing the whole world and counting any "friendlies" as acceptable loses with a shrug.

So no, the warp gods were not happy, the daemons where not happy. They did not get feed and in fact the sisters death lead to the destruction of chaos's forces that day, they died for the good of the IoM. I really wish people would read things they use in place of repeating false info others have stated online.

Then you must not have read the part where it said they "SPILLED THE SISTERS BLOOD" and "TURNED THEIR BLADES ON THEM". That's on page 15 of the Grey Knight codex, in case you glossed over my post. (Which you said you didn't but since you didn't see that part I have to assume you did. Are you going to say that turning your blades on your allies and spilling their blood is not a gruesome way to kill someone? Almost (or exactly like) they were murdered or sacrificed? How else can someone have their blood spilled and yet not be murder or sacrifice? And don't say "war" because we all know that's just government sanctioned murder. And Khorne likes blood spilling or do you debate that too? I can find a quote in the Chaos codex if you like.

So what "false info" are you talking about? Do you have links to some of this stuff? I'm genuinely curious now and find it quite strange that there are folks on the internet that would make up false things when its pretty easy to read it straight out of the codex. I'll have to agree with you there on that one.

Its threads like this that make me regret associating with gamers.

Can we have less QQ about the background story of our toy soldiers, and more fun just playing the game?

Dunwich wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?
They are specifically referred to as Sister of Battle in the Blood Tide. Have you read the story?
Are you trolling?

edits: getting quotes working

The Orders Hospitaller, Dialogous, and Famulous are also called "Sisters of Battle" but are non-militant orders.

Eidolon wrote:Its threads like this that make me regret associating with gamers.

Can we have less QQ about the background story of our toy soldiers, and more fun just playing the game?

You can also use the yellow triangle of friendship too! Can we please stay on topic here? My mates and I are having a friendly spirited discussion on the corruptibility of a Grey Knight's soul, and how their power feeds their demon prince in the warp, Draigo. If you don't wish to participate, you are totally free to not even open the thread!

Remember, the triangle is always there, always faithful.

Even if they were not order militant it would still not be misogyny, the GK simply needed/wanted to get blood, they didn't mind if it was from nuns or from priests, you know that misogyny means "hatred of women" and gender had no place in the incident.

not only that but hes a gay demon

Well the issues is not that write up, but the fact GW has a history of using SoB as poor canon fodder with what looks to be a composition among the writers to see who can kill more or them and in how many horrid ways.

jgehunter wrote:Even if they were not order militant it would still not be misogyny, the GK simply needed/wanted to get blood, they didn't mind if it was from nuns or from priests, you know that misogyny means "hatred of women" and gender had no place in the incident.

Hunterindarkness wrote:Well the issues is not that write up, but the fact GW has a history of using SoB as poor canon fodder with what looks to be a composition among the writers to see who can kill more or them and in how many horrid ways.

Hunter is right, the GW authors never seem to miss an opportunity to spill some sister blood, or use them as the Damsels in Distress, or any other way to show just how...crappy their order really is.

Platuan4th wrote:

Dunwich wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?
They are specifically referred to as Sister of Battle in the Blood Tide. Have you read the story?
Are you trolling?

edits: getting quotes working

The Orders Hospitaller, Dialogous, and Famulous are also called "Sisters of Battle" but are non-militant orders.

They are the Order of the Ebon Chalice, a militant order. Please, read the story.

Platuan4th wrote:
Dear gods, he's a Daemon Prince of Malal!

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! The Black and white space marine on the black and white bike! All those Imperial skulls! The Imperal Daemons! The Star Child! The mysterious chaos power aiding Cypher...


THE EMPEROR *IS* MALAL!

Dunwich wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Dunwich wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?
They are specifically referred to as Sister of Battle in the Blood Tide. Have you read the story?
Are you trolling?

edits: getting quotes working

The Orders Hospitaller, Dialogous, and Famulous are also called "Sisters of Battle" but are non-militant orders.

They are the Order of the Ebon Chalice, a militant order. Please, read the story.

The retinues of a Cannones include a Hospitaller and Dialogous at times, so it's not completely off the wall to assume that they were present during this engagement.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
Dear gods, he's a Daemon Prince of Malal!

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! The Black and white space marine on the black and white bike! All those Imperial skulls! The Imperal Daemons! The Star Child! The mysterious chaos power aiding Cypher...


THE EMPEROR *IS* MALAL!

Do you think Draigo met the Black and White Space Marine on the Black and White Bike in the warp? Would they be friend or foe? And can you really say Draigo is still loyal after all that time in the warp?

^ Never said they didn't include Hospitallers and Dialogous, which actively go to battle with the other sisters. I don't even see what your point is.

I was refuting "Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB." Which is a flat out lie.

whitedragon wrote:
The Orders Hospitaller, Dialogous, and Famulous are also called "Sisters of Battle" but are non-militant orders.

whitedragon wrote:
Do you think Draigo met the Black and White Space Marine on the Black and White Bike in the warp? Would they be friend or foe? And can you really say Draigo is still loyal after all that time in the warp?

Hmm.... I can't say that I've ever seen servants of Malal unite against anything... they're mostly loners that like to dick over the other chaos gods... Though I suspect that the Black and White Space marine is somehow Malal's answer to Doomrider...

That would make him pretty strait laced. I'd say he and Draigo would probably get on well together...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jgehunter wrote:
So at max we have....2 individuals that aren't militants

I would imagine you probably have more than that. Hospitlars are some tough dames since they also accompany Inquisitors into battle and, in fluff, have made 'nid burger from tyranids trying to break into a hospital, a well as fought rogue psykers along side thier sisters from the more militant orders...

Platuan4th wrote:

jgehunter wrote:And I shall ask again, how does?:

women getting killed in the 40k universe = Misogyny

If instead of sisters they killed guardsmen, there would still be debate over it but, would you say it is "casual Misandry"

Killing defenseless nuns = misogyny.

Killing male soldiers = war.

Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

You creating an artificial distinction between male soldiers and female soldiers is misogynistic. Not the Bloodtide story.

I doubt that the sisters were defenseless they did fight off the bloodtide unaided and I doubt that anything short of a stubborn skilled defence would keep out a chaos army.

Kaldor wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

jgehunter wrote:And I shall ask again, how does?:

women getting killed in the 40k universe = Misogyny

If instead of sisters they killed guardsmen, there would still be debate over it but, would you say it is "casual Misandry"

Killing defenseless nuns = misogyny.

Killing male soldiers = war.

Nothing in the story says they're the Nuns with Guns style SoB.

You creating an artificial distinction between male soldiers and female soldiers is misogynistic. Not the Bloodtide story.

By refusing to believe that such a thing exists, ie turning a blind eye, you perpetuate the act of casual misogyny!

Hunterindarkness wrote:
Total agreement. The SoB thing is blown way out of proportion, and many add falsehoods that are not in the book. The Inquisition does way, way worse things then killing a few nuns for the greater good. Every.Single.Day. And twice on Tuesdays.

The SoB does way worse things on a daily basis. They're only job is to torture and murder people that may or may not be "heretics". Seeing if such a thing is actually true is not part of their job.

whitedragon wrote:By refusing to believe that such a thing exists, ie turning a blind eye, you perpetuate the act of casual misogyny!

Sure do! But this is not an instance of it. In fact, insisting that it IS an instance of it is YOU being misogynistic! YOU are in fact the one perpetuating it.

Completely agree with Kaldor on this one, the continual assertion that SoB are defenseless is far more misogynistic than the Blood Tide story.

Dunwich wrote:Completely agree with Kaldor on this one, the continual assertion that SoB are defenseless is far more misogynistic than the Blood Tide story.

We seem to have veered pretty far off topic here, I'd ask that we get back to the Draigo/Demon connection please.

The sisters stuff is pretty interesting though, yet I don't think it's as clear cut as you guys are trying to make it. GW clearly uses Sisters as the "whipping girls" of the 41st millenium.

While they do use them as whipping girls, this was not a case of that. The issue is however they bash them soooooooooo often folks have been trained to attribute any SoB death as SoB fodder writing.


As to the topic on hand, he is a saint, which is the IoM's and the "God- Emperor. warp entries. No one that hates him or Ward's stuff is gonna like that, but it does not change it. The servants of the big E are not daemons. They are saints.

Hunterindarkness wrote:While they do use them as whipping girls, this was not a case of that. The issue is however they bash them soooooooooo often folks have been trained to attribute any SoB death as SoB fodder writing.


As to the topic on hand, he is a saint, which is the IoM's and the "God- Emperor. warp entries. No one that hates him or Ward's stuff is gonna like that, but it does not change it. The servants of the big E are not daemons. They are saints.

Being turned into a talisman so the big bad manly grey knights can swoop in to the rescue could be construed many different ways as being demeaning to women, even without all the other Sisters of Battle fluff.

Also, where does it mention in the codex that Draigo is a saint? I couldn't find it on his page in the codex? (although I admit I was just skimming for the "warp metal" bit.)

SoB:
The sisters were done, it says so in the Codex, they were more or less a handful, most having turned or died and they were losing the fight. It was not an if, only a win they lost it question.And they did not recuse the sisters, they never where they to rescue anyone. That is not what they do. They were there to stop chaos by any means necessary.

I agree they are often demeaning with the sisters and seem to take glee in finding new and interesting way for them to be massacred with little value.

The bloodtide was not one of those, it showed for one how bad ass they were by holding out that long and two had a real reason they died. Not to die just to be drying but because the Knights needed the blood of innocents.





Thread topic:
I didn't say in the codex, I said in the context of this thread he is a saint. Servants of the IoM become saints, which are the same thing was the Chaos God's Demon and such. As every point listed matches a Saint as well.

If you are gonna declare him a "warp entity" then the type he is would be clear. He is more or less treated like a saint anyhow.