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Just a random thought: i have Ld8 Fortitude in my Blue Star Alliance fandex, and i playtested it a lot and frankly, it is rather unstatisfying. If i should draw a parallel, then i would say that the Ld8 Fortitude is equal to a built-in Extra Armour in the terms of reliable effectiveness.

Deadshot wrote:Ghot Knights- I uped points becuase base, they were regular Terminators with Stealth, for the same price. And seeing as I added the "ignores terrain" clause that also added on.

Okay. I figured the combined opportunity cost of being not-troops along with the fact they couldn't take gun upgrades was the balancing factor for stealth. I suppose with your ignore terrain rules, I could see them bumped up to 45 points. I still think 50 is a bit much.

They were all in there for a reason. DK was made to form the "Headline product" opf the range and stop the new GKs, the awesomesauce guys, being a 2 box army. Now they have 3. Psilincers and warding staves are Meh IMO. A crap gun and an expensive invulnerable save. Jokaeros were made for ther older gamers.

I guess I could settle with them being on OX Inquisitors. I just hate to see options get removed completely.

I see where you are coming from on melta-hammerhand, but seriously, they could've just give them wrist mounted meltaguns. Or make it so the 2(S+1) only applied against vehicles. It turns a Str 9 weapon into a Str 10 one meaning that they can wound easier and inflict ID on T5.

I think actually having meltaguns would be more damaging to the fluff than anything else done to them. They've always been the "we have crazy different weapons" army.

I don't really know what you are trying to say on the PA psycannons bit. Could you rephrase it please.

So, if you sit still, then you get the 4 shots from the psycannons. Problem is: how do you get within range? You have to either advance (not getting your shots) or you have to stand still and wait for them to come to you. If it's an army that is fast enough, it can be hard to stay within 24" range for your next shot. I was trying to say that the ability to use them as anti-tank is like using an infantry mounted multimelta as anti-tank. It's hard because the moment you get up close enough to cut loose, they're going to back up away from you, leaving you where you were beforehand.

Hammernators should not be used as the base Termionator. That should be Vanilla Tac Termies. Hammernators should be up-costed.

But they are. Deathwing are at least as crazy. I guess Blood Angels less so, but they can still get them pretty cheaply.

GC stands for Gargantuan Creature. I thought the yellow mouse over would come into affect.

Ah, I'm cool with that then.

As for the "No fluff, no rules" part, those tings were added in to help get GK models and sales up. But the grenades can be represented with a tiny bit of sprue or the grenades that come on any marine model. They don't increase sales, which have justification, and are just silly. There was never need to have them.

I'm not sure I agree that, for the purposes of a fan-based ruleset, selling models should be a rationalization in which rules to keep, one way or the other. It's your baby though, and it's not like I ever actually USE those. I think OX should at least have them though, because they are kind of the wacky fringe stuff they'd use.

I may consider limiting them O-1 per type per army. So one GKGM could have Brain Mines and an Inqusitor could have Psykotrokes. Or the GK Captain could have both.

Anyway, 1.2 is up there so have a look and see what the changes are like.

AtoMaki wrote:Just a random thought: i have Ld8 Fortitude in my Blue Star Alliance fandex, and i playtested it a lot and frankly, it is rather unstatisfying. If i should draw a parallel, then i would say that the Ld8 Fortitude is equal to a built-in Extra Armour in the terms of reliable effectiveness.

it allows you to shoot 70% of the time. Extra armor lets you shoot 0% of the time. I actually like how it is tiered, Ld.8 for rhinos and razorback, Ld9 for Dreads, Land Raiders, and Storm Ravens, and Ld 10 for Ven Dreads.

wow wow wow

coteaz 160??

he's T3, W3, and 2+ save... and not EW, he can be ID so easily... his "DS within 12" of me and ur dead lulz" power is fairly easy to avoid (if the enemy deepstrikes at all)

I can not see the real justification of him over 100pts.... I mean I'd feel bad if he was 120ish... sure he makes henchman troops but change them then, not the guy that gets ID'd by a guardsmen with a fist >.>

BewareOfTom wrote:wow wow wow

coteaz 160??

he's T3, W3, and 2+ save... and not EW, he can be ID so easily... his "DS within 12" of me and ur dead lulz" power is fairly easy to avoid (if the enemy deepstrikes at all)

I can not see the real justification of him over 100pts.... I mean I'd feel bad if he was 120ish... sure he makes henchman troops but change them then, not the guy that gets ID'd by a guardsmen with a fist >.>

welcome to the non Meq world.
You know how many special characters there are in the DE codex? 8.
You know how many cost over 100 points? All of them.
You know how many have T3? 6 and all 6 can be ID by Str6.
You know how many have Str3? 6.
You know how many of them have psykic powers? 0

BewareOfTom wrote:wow wow wow

coteaz 160??

he's T3, W3, and 2+ save... and not EW, he can be ID so easily... his "DS within 12" of me and ur dead lulz" power is fairly easy to avoid (if the enemy deepstrikes at all)

I can not see the real justification of him over 100pts.... I mean I'd feel bad if he was 120ish... sure he makes henchman troops but change them then, not the guy that gets ID'd by a guardsmen with a fist >.>

Go check out how much any of the IG special characters cost and what they do. I'm the last person who would claim that GK are overpowered, and I'll throw out that Coteaz comes stupid, stupid cheap. If Crowe is worth 150 (he is, at a minimum) then Coteaz is worth at least as much as well.

Exergy wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:Just a random thought: i have Ld8 Fortitude in my Blue Star Alliance fandex, and i playtested it a lot and frankly, it is rather unstatisfying. If i should draw a parallel, then i would say that the Ld8 Fortitude is equal to a built-in Extra Armour in the terms of reliable effectiveness.

it allows you to shoot 70% of the time. Extra armor lets you shoot 0% of the time. I actually like how it is tiered, Ld.8 for rhinos and razorback, Ld9 for Dreads, Land Raiders, and Storm Ravens, and Ld 10 for Ven Dreads.

But you cannot immobilize yourself with an extra armour.... And your opponent cannot disable your extra armour with anti-psyker abilities/wargear.

AtoMaki wrote:

Exergy wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:Just a random thought: i have Ld8 Fortitude in my Blue Star Alliance fandex, and i playtested it a lot and frankly, it is rather unstatisfying. If i should draw a parallel, then i would say that the Ld8 Fortitude is equal to a built-in Extra Armour in the terms of reliable effectiveness.

it allows you to shoot 70% of the time. Extra armor lets you shoot 0% of the time. I actually like how it is tiered, Ld.8 for rhinos and razorback, Ld9 for Dreads, Land Raiders, and Storm Ravens, and Ld 10 for Ven Dreads.

But you cannot immobilize yourself with an extra armour.... And your opponent cannot disable your extra armour with anti-psyker abilities/wargear.

you cannot immobilize yourself? Do you mean you can always move, just can't shoot (assuming other things like you aren't immobilized, theres room, etc). Because thats nowhere near as good as a 70% chance to shoot and move (if thats correct maths, didn't check it)

motyak wrote:
you cannot immobilize yourself? Do you mean you can always move, just can't shoot (assuming other things like you aren't immobilized, theres room, etc). Because thats nowhere near as good as a 70% chance to shoot and move (if thats correct maths, didn't check it)

I meant that you cannot roll a Perils of the Warp for the psychic test. Because y'know, EA doesn't need psychic tests to work, but Fortitude does .

i just have to point out a problem with the making grand masters ws 5
space marine captains are ws 6 and grand masters are meant to be beter than them so lowering their ws will not make sense

I really do believe, before your start giving the Grey Knight hate, you do need to be looking at "Fixing Space Wolves", They give Grey Knights, or any army such a bad time due to the amount of models and firepower they can put on the table for their price, and then you have to take into account their rules and wargear such as the wolf standard and mark of the wulfen etc.

As far as Grey Knights go, they need to be nerfed, but so do a few other armies, I can understand why you have made some points about wargear units etc but the Grey Knights didn't have enough fluff previously to make an army with them, maybe in 4E as there were no where near as many characters or units for some armies, but in 5E you need a lot more units and characters to please the gamers and hobbyests.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:I really do believe, before your start giving the Grey Knight hate, you do need to be looking at "Fixing Space Wolves", They give Grey Knights, or any army such a bad time due to the amount of models and firepower they can put on the table for their price, and then you have to take into account their rules and wargear such as the wolf standard and mark of the wulfen etc.

As far as Grey Knights go, they need to be nerfed, but so do a few other armies, I can understand why you have made some points about wargear units etc but the Grey Knights didn't have enough fluff previously to make an army with them, maybe in 4E as there were no where near as many characters or units for some armies, but in 5E you need a lot more units and characters to please the gamers and hobbyests.

QFT

Exergy wrote:

BewareOfTom wrote:wow wow wow

coteaz 160??

he's T3, W3, and 2+ save... and not EW, he can be ID so easily... his "DS within 12" of me and ur dead lulz" power is fairly easy to avoid (if the enemy deepstrikes at all)

I can not see the real justification of him over 100pts.... I mean I'd feel bad if he was 120ish... sure he makes henchman troops but change them then, not the guy that gets ID'd by a guardsmen with a fist >.>

welcome to the non Meq world.
You know how many special characters there are in the DE codex? 8.
You know how many cost over 100 points? All of them.
You know how many have T3? 6 and all 6 can be ID by Str6.
You know how many have Str3? 6.
You know how many of them have psykic powers? 0

yes but how many of those have an invul save? like cmon, guard have like a 4 or 5++ and their not IC's and some DE guys get a 2++ (sure if they fail once its gone but still) only way coteaz gets one is if he's with a jokaero and he rolls that 5+ one

BewareOfTom wrote:yes but how many of those have an invul save? like cmon, guard have like a 4 or 5++ and their not IC's and some DE guys get a 2++ (sure if they fail once its gone but still) only way coteaz gets one is if he's with a jokaero and he rolls that 5+ one

True. You'd think a Lord Inquisitor (especially a named character) would have a 5+ invulnerable. Especially when Colonel Snuffy, Company Commander, gets one standard.

The problem with Coteaz (for me) is that he takes up one of your HQ slots and, while it's great that you get troop henchmen, he's a liability to take in anything other than an objective sitting squad. I would love to take two melee inquisitors with their DCA kill teams and roll around the board but you would have to babysit him.

Forcing my opponent to reroll the seize is almost worth 100 points though, that's pretty baws.

DoW

yeah, but personally, I could see giving all inquisitors a price hike but moving them to elites (maybe making them 0-2 or something too)

thelordwatchman wrote:i just have to point out a problem with the making grand masters ws 5
space marine captains are ws 6 and grand masters are meant to be beter than them so lowering their ws will not make sense

It is BS I am changing, not WS.

sorry i read ws that may be my bad

yes the bs should be 5 not 6

New version.uploaded. Overhaul to Paladins and Inquisitors and some.changes.

BewareOfTom wrote:

Exergy wrote:

BewareOfTom wrote:wow wow wow

coteaz 160??

he's T3, W3, and 2+ save... and not EW, he can be ID so easily... his "DS within 12" of me and ur dead lulz" power is fairly easy to avoid (if the enemy deepstrikes at all)

I can not see the real justification of him over 100pts.... I mean I'd feel bad if he was 120ish... sure he makes henchman troops but change them then, not the guy that gets ID'd by a guardsmen with a fist >.>

welcome to the non Meq world.
You know how many special characters there are in the DE codex? 8.
You know how many cost over 100 points? All of them.
You know how many have T3? 6 and all 6 can be ID by Str6.
You know how many have Str3? 6.
You know how many of them have psykic powers? 0

yes but how many of those have an invul save? like cmon, guard have like a 4 or 5++ and their not IC's and some DE guys get a 2++ (sure if they fail once its gone but still) only way coteaz gets one is if he's with a jokaero and he rolls that 5+ one

yes 3 of them have 2++ saves that short out. 2 have 4++ saves and 1 has a 5++. The two characters that have T higher than 3 have no ++ save at all. He still has 2+ armor and a ton of special rules and powers.

Exergy wrote:

BewareOfTom wrote:

Exergy wrote:

BewareOfTom wrote:wow wow wow

coteaz 160??

he's T3, W3, and 2+ save... and not EW, he can be ID so easily... his "DS within 12" of me and ur dead lulz" power is fairly easy to avoid (if the enemy deepstrikes at all)

I can not see the real justification of him over 100pts.... I mean I'd feel bad if he was 120ish... sure he makes henchman troops but change them then, not the guy that gets ID'd by a guardsmen with a fist >.>

welcome to the non Meq world.
You know how many special characters there are in the DE codex? 8.
You know how many cost over 100 points? All of them.
You know how many have T3? 6 and all 6 can be ID by Str6.
You know how many have Str3? 6.
You know how many of them have psykic powers? 0

yes but how many of those have an invul save? like cmon, guard have like a 4 or 5++ and their not IC's and some DE guys get a 2++ (sure if they fail once its gone but still) only way coteaz gets one is if he's with a jokaero and he rolls that 5+ one

yes 3 of them have 2++ saves that short out. 2 have 4++ saves and 1 has a 5++. The two characters that have T higher than 3 have no ++ save at all. He still has 2+ armor and a ton of special rules and powers.

But we live in a world where the average dark eldar army will have so many vehicles it's hard to count, yes your HQ's are more expensive, but your troops are cheap and can spam heavy weapons.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
But we live in a world where the average dark eldar army will have so many vehicles it's hard to count, yes your HQ's are more expensive, but your troops are cheap and can spam heavy weapons.

try reading the DE codex. DE troops can take 1 heavy weapon per 10 models, outside of 1 elite choice there is very little spamming of heavy or special weapons in the book. Its not like guard, GK, SW, or BA which get spammability in their troop choices.

@Purgation squads
No sane person will take Psilencers @ 20 ppm in any squad.

Psilencers are actually very, very poor excuse for a heavy weapon. If firing at GEQ in open, it is equivalent to two stormbolters. Is that worth 20 points? No way.

Psycannon is basically better pretty much always. Even against daemons. Only exceptions are:
T3 or less models in cover / who have invuln.
T6+ Daemons (and only equal to psycannon if they don't have Iron Skin).

Psilencers would be good choice if they were S5 or if they had 8 shots. They might be situationally good if they were AP5 or assault 3/heavy 6.

But currently, Psilencers are a trap. They look like a good option, but in truth they plain suck.

Even against the best possible targets they can face (T6 daemon), they have only around 10% advantage compared to Psycannons.

This means if you move the unit even once instead of shooting a target, psycannons become better choice.

10 ppm for Psycannon in purgation squad is good choice, if you want to see them used more. But IMO bit too cheap, considering you can take 4 for squad of only 140 points.

Exergy wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
But we live in a world where the average dark eldar army will have so many vehicles it's hard to count, yes your HQ's are more expensive, but your troops are cheap and can spam heavy weapons.

try reading the DE codex. DE troops can take 1 heavy weapon per 10 models, outside of 1 elite choice there is very little spamming of heavy or special weapons in the book. Its not like guard, GK, SW, or BA which get spammability in their troop choices.

I'll give you that one, yet you still give Grey Knights a game based on the amount of vehicles you can fit into your army, so there's no need to moan!