Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Necrontyr40k wrote:Regarding puppets of war, the models would not be legal in tournaments. GW conversions are better this way.
I've always wondered: how does that work?
Tournaments and restrictions on custom models.
Is it just a matter of "as long as it's made of GW materials, it's legal"?
What about situations where the model already exists, but you're using a custom version of it? (eg. all the Crypteks made of Deathmark heads and Praetorian rods and bodies).
I imagine if it's for a model that doesn't exist yet, it's probably fine (like people making their custom Stalkers out of Ghost Arks)... but once the REAL Stalker comes out, what happens to the custom version? No longer allowed for tournament play? (is that the way "WYSIWYG" works?)
The not knowing has been keeping me from trying to enter tournaments.
(._. )
The main reason is that people are trying to avoid modeling for advantage as much as possible. Now if yours are about the right size most people wont complain about it. If you are concerned ask the TO before the tournament in a e-mail and they will usually respond. I wouldn't let it stop you though. In fact most of the time people like seeing conversions.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
I agree with some of the previous posters in that most of the non-vanilla overlord IC's need to have the list built around them, or at least with them in mind.
Most people rail against the 20 warrior blob because it can get waxed in CC so badly and get routed. Having Zhandrek + a lancetek with gaze of flame changes that tremendously. If the assaulting force is losing its bonus attacks, and you are gaining a bonus attack, you're likely to survive. His ability to give tankhunters means that when you're not in threat of getting assaulted, your barges/lanceteks have a better chance of pens.
To make use of Phased Reinforcements, all you need is a monolith. If your opponent has drop pods that come down turn 1, so does your monolith. If they have anything come in turn 2 from reserve, so does your monolith. It increases the chances of you getting it a turn or two early, which turns into extra shooting.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/03 20:53:00
Nalathani wrote:To make use of Phased Reinforcements, all you need is a monolith. If your opponent has drop pods that come down turn 1, so does your monolith. If they have anything come in turn 2 from reserve, so does your monolith.
Not sure the Drop Pod triggering the PR is correct. In previous tournaments I have attended, Drop Pod (first turn) and DoW (army rolling on turn 1) were ruled as "Like coming from reserve" not actually coming from reserve so it was not allowed.... Really sucked since my army was based around this.
"If you are not naughty you get a cookie. If you are naked, you get a cookie." - Insaniak, Dakka Mod
apple1988218 wrote:Nemesor: 5 lance teks with tank hunter rule, totally worth it.
That's almost 400 points for 5 lascannons of range 36". IG gets 6 lascannons at full range for ~200 pts (albeit at BS3). Also, you need to protect these guys somehow, so giving them an empty ark to hide in will be another 115 pts. So, 515 pts. The same buys 12 wraiths with 5 coils. I bet the 12 wraiths will kill more and last longer than the 5 lanceteks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Leth wrote:The main reason is that people are trying to avoid modeling for advantage as much as possible. Now if yours are about the right size most people wont complain about it. If you are concerned ask the TO before the tournament in a e-mail and they will usually respond. I wouldn't let it stop you though. In fact most of the time people like seeing conversions.
So long as its is GW components, the only likely complaint you will get is if the models are significantly smaller than what they proxy for. People get really competitive at tournaments and feel like you are cheating them if a smaller model gets a cover save that the original one would not get.
Another approach is to be more generous in borderline cases regarding cover. That generates good will.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/04 00:27:57
I would say it most definitely depends on the build of the list though. 5 lance teks in an Ark with the Nemesor goes well in a foot list. Warrior blobs appreciate the Res orb and you are probably purchasing an Ark for the Warriors anyway. Wraiths don't fit as well.
Illuminor dude rocks faces. Ghost Ark rolling behind 20 Toughness 5 Warriors with a Lord + Rez Orb = Scary Unit. Even CC units will think twice about getting dumped on by 40 gauss shots. Plus your lord can take some really nasty anti-CC gear for lulz.
Imotehk is awesome too! Dude can utterly break a Dark Eldar or IG player with one turn of lighting. Granted it has to be a 6, but come on dude, that power is a friggin nail biter to your opponent.
"AM are bunch of half human-half robot monkeys who keep tech working by punching it with a wrench And their tech is so sophisticated that you could never get it wrapped it out" thing a LITTLE to seriously. It also goes "Tau tech is so awesome I wish I was Tau and not some stupid Human" thing.
My own experiences of Necron IC's is pretty limited to naked CC Barge Overlords. I would rather have more boys than toys so saving the points on Weave, MSS and Phase Shifter seems appropriate. Of course, if points allowed then they would be the first things to add.
The mobility (no need to ever go less than 24"), resiliency (AV13, 4+ cover saves and symbiotic repair) and damage output for their price is just just great. Want to Open up transports in the movement phase with no smoke saves? Yes please!
Experience has also shown me that CC Barges combined with Doom Scythes is a brutal combo. Both deal insane damage and need to be dealt with quickly. Chances are though that your opponent can't deal with them quicky enough. Add Wraiths to the mix and you have a solid core to a very aggressive list.
I've generally found that Imotekh is best served with two sides of Chronoteks. However, it's sometimes tough to build a list around him and not take the Scarab farm route.
Anrakyr used to be my auto-include HQ, but now that he has to exit the Barge in order to use MitM, I have yet to really bother with him. (If he were 30 points cheaper and didn't have a Tachyon Arrow, I would take him...)
Obyron angers me because he doesn't have an invulnerable save, nor does he have EW, and cannot take a royal court. That means he has to be paired with Zandrekh.
Zandrekh is great against mech lists because of the Tank Hunters ability, but in general I find him lacking any real in-game use.
I've never used Szeras because he cannot take a court.
I've never used Orikan because he cannot take a court.
I've never used Destroyer Lords in the new codex because they cannot take a court.
azazel the cat wrote:I've never used Destroyer Lords in the new codex because they cannot take a court.
This, more than anything else in the codex, disappointed me the most.
Why would they not just have "Destroyer Body" as an upgrade option for Overlords?!
...
*sigh*
my only hope is that Forgeworld releases a model and rules for Executioner Ezandrahk when they do IA12, so we'll FINALLY get a proper Destroyer Overlord.
(and while I'm wishing, how about a model & rules for Sahtah the Enfleshed, with a bonus rule that lets you take Flayed Ones as troop choices?)
azazel the cat wrote:I've never used Destroyer Lords in the new codex because they cannot take a court.
This, more than anything else in the codex, disappointed me the most.
Why would they not just have "Destroyer Body" as an upgrade option for Overlords?!
...
*sigh*
my only hope is that Forgeworld releases a model and rules for Executioner Ezandrahk when they do IA12, so we'll FINALLY get a proper Destroyer Overlord.
(and while I'm wishing, how about a model & rules for Sahtah the Enfleshed, with a bonus rule that lets you take Flayed Ones as troop choices?)
My guess is because of the fluff explanation, wherein the Destroyers -Destroyer Lords included- all have some sort of killcrazy malware. (they must've been going to some questionable places in the Webway) As a result, I'm guessing that they are no longer fit to take Royal Courts.
From a gameplay explanation, I think it's because they would be so ridiculously good that nobody would take anything else. Ever. And nobody would play anything but Wraithwings.
So essentially the ICs are based around Synergy with other units then. No single IC sticks out as a stand alone power house.
An Apoc game with several of them could be interesting...
Use Anrakyr, Szeras, an OverLord and a couple of StormTeks to make a Death Star squad of 10 Gauss Immortals with potentially: Relentless, T5/BS5/S5, Furious charge (so potentially S6 on the charge), Counter Attack, 4+++, a S8 AP2 lance, a Warcythe, defensive grenades and any unit assaulting them take 2D6 S8 hits before blows are struck.
Expensive though.
Edit: expensive may be an understatement....
Anrakyr
Szeras
Overlord (warscythe, phaeron, res orb, MSS)
2 x StormTeks with Lightning Field
10 gauss Immortals
TOTAL: 670
eep!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/04 11:00:33
Oh, it's that Royal Court deathstar, where you fill all the Lord slots and kit them with basically everything. Mega-fun looking, unfortunately impractical if you want an army that an actually hold objectives.
skoffs wrote:If you think 670 is bad, try looking up "Royal Court Disco Inferno"
????
You want Necron ICs? I got your Necron ICs RIGHT HERE, PAL
"Royal Court Disco Inferno"
Spoiler:
_________________________ HQ [1365] Zahndrekh = 185 Obyron = 160 Lord (Scythe, Weave, Scarabs, T Labyrinth, ResOrb, Shifter) = 170 Lord (Scythe, Weave, Scarabs, T Labyrinth, Shifter) = 140 Lord (Scythe, Weave, Scarabs, T Labyrinth, Shifter) = 140 Lord (Scythe, Weave, Scarabs, T Labyrinth, Shifter) = 140 Lord (Scythe, Weave, Scarabs, T Labyrinth, Shifter) = 140 Ho Despair (Shroud) = 40 Ho Destruction (Pulse, Gaze of Flame) = 65 Ho Eternity (Chronometron, Time Cloak) = 70 Ho Storm (Lightning, E Crystal) = 50 Ho Trans (Crucible, Harp) = 65
TROOP [130] 5 Warriors = 65 5 Warriors = 65
TOTAL [1495] _________________________
Deathstar has: -Furious Charge OR Counter Attack. -Defensive Grenades. -7 models with 3++ invun saves. Units trying to Assault it: -get minus D3 to assault distance. -suffer D6 S8 AP5 auto hits. -D6 S8 AP5 against any opposing unit trying to DS within 6” of unit. In assault: -5 enemy models in base contact will have to pass leadership test on 3D6 or attack themselves. -5 enemy characters or MC in base contact can be Pokeball’d if they don’t roll less than their current wounds (6 is auto pass, 1 is auto fail). No saves allowed, period. (one pop each) -15 S7 power weapon attack (20 S8 if assaulting with Furious Charge). 3 S7 (4 S8) power weapon attacks at WS6 (can become up to 9 attacks if striking last). -If facing multi-wound models, once wounded, one enemy model will become WS1 BS1 I1 A1 for the rest of the game. Shooting, it does: -3 S5 AP3 @12” -1 S8 AP2 @36” -1 S8 AP1 @flame against leadership OR 1 auto morale test @18” -4 S5 AP- @12” (which glaces vehicles on a 2-5, pens on a 6) -1 S4 AP- @36” blast (which puts all enemy in difficult terrain) OR 1 S6 AP- @infinite with Entropic Strike Unit can also: -teleport around the field, including out of combat. -get back up on a 4+. -reroll any one dice per phase. -cause Night Fighting one time on opponents turn.
[can possibly drob the Lord's ResOrb and the Chrono-tek's E Crystal to upgrade Warriors to Immortals] [can make 2000 point list by adding Imotekh, a Chrono-tek, and two units of 8 Scarabs. Can make THAT a 2500 point list by adding 9 Spyders (1 Gloom Prism), and adding 2 more Scarabs, maybe splitting them into three units of 6]
TL;DR- I CAN'T WAIT TO TRY THIS.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/04 17:43:09
The thing with Necrons is that you need to build around an HQ. Chose and HQ, then build a list that works well with the character's abilities.
Imotekh: Pretty good. Night Fighitng lasts for an almost guaranteed 2 game turns. The lightning is an added bonus, but in large games it slows the game down, the larger that game, the most it slows down. This guy does NOT work well with shooty Necron builds, unless you plan on taking Solar Pulses, which then negates his lightning. Take this guy if you have a melee list. The lightning can either be useful or pointless, depending on the dice.
Zahndrekh: One of my favorites. He works well with nearly everything, mainly because he can give FC or Tank Hunters. Giving Wraiths FC allows them to strike at the same Int step as Halberd GK (if the Wraiths in question have Whip Coils), and giving Heavy Destroyers or Lanceteks +1 to Armor pen rolls is never a bad thing, making them effectively S10 and S9 against vehicles.
Obyron: This guy is a Veiltek+Lychguard. His high WS and cleaving ability make him a fantastic counter-charger, and Zahndrekh can give him and his unit either FC or Counter-Attack. You could also take a CCB for Zahndrekh (or any other HQ) and have Obyron ride around in it. If it blows up, just port back to Zahndrekh, without scattering, and join up with another unit. This guy is made to work with Zahndrekh, and although with him Obyron is still good, with Zahndrekh he can be better. No Royal Court, though if you take Zahndrekh Obyron does not take up an HQ slot, leaving you room for another HQ.
Orikan: Works best in a gimmicky list with a C'tan and a tremortek. His Star are Right shtick is nearly useless unless you plan on draggin him into combat, then you get to watch as that Empowered state fades the next turn and he gets facerolled. He's ok, but only in certain lists. Anything else and he's a no-go. Oh, and no Royal Court.
Illuminator: Yeah, no. The fact that his ability is random at all is bad, giving you a 1/3 chance of getting a result that completely blows. The only way this guy could be good is with Zahndrekh or Anrakyr, who both give FC to certain things. While you could porentially have some S6 Int3 Immortals mooking about the field, Immortals aren't built for CC, they're built for shooting. Don't take this guy unless you have loaded dice. Oh, and no Royal Court.
Anrakyr: This guy is decent. With the Fire Point nerf in the FAQ, this guy's usability has dropped. However, he is still a decently equipped character, with a Warscythe and Tachyon arrow. His ability to take over enemy machines is still good, though he needs to disembark to do it.
McNinja wrote:Imotekh: Pretty good. Night Fighitng lasts for an almost guaranteed 2 game turns. The lightning is an added bonus, but in large games it slows the game down, the larger that game, the most it slows down. This guy does NOT work well with shooty Necron builds, unless you plan on taking Solar Pulses, which then negates his lightning. Take this guy if you have a melee list. The lightning can either be useful or pointless, depending on the dice.
Look, you just can't say this stuff. You have to do some numerical analysis.
The only reason we take Imotekh is for his lightning. Period. Yeah, we get some night-fighting from him too, but we can get it for a fraction of the cost using Solar Pulses and get a couple Krak-missile shot equivalents in the bargain, what the hell?
The chance of a unit being hit by lightning at least once in three turns is 42%. Try this yourself. Grab three die, start rolling for every dude in our list.
The chance of a unit being hit by lightning at least once in four turns is 52%. (And yeah, they'll AVERAGE 2/3rds of a hit each, a couple will get hit twice.)
Lightning will last on average somewhere between 3 and 4 turns. Think about it - if we make it to turn 3, what's the chance of making it to turn 4? Well, to not make it, we've got to roll a 5 or 6, twice. Odds of that are 4/9, or 44% - we've a 56% chance to make it to turn 4, if we've made it to turn 3. Odds of losing it on turn 3 are 25% - which is also, by the way, why we want to take at least one Solar Pulse with Imotekh. (I take two.) Odds of making it from turn 4 to turn 5 are 31% - unlikely, but more likely than losing it on turn 3.
There's some variance in an Imotekh list, but not as much as people think because of the number of die involved in the strikes. The main risk?
There is an 11% chance we'll lose the storm on turn 2. This will probably suck for us, but if we've also taken a couple solar pulses it's just unlucky, not a game-ender. In a six game tournament, it's about a coin flip this'll happen once.
Szeras gets a bad rap from the interwebs but I've found running him with a Phaeron, Reg Lord w/WS/MSS/RO in 20 brick works pretty well, but only 1500+. In this setup none of his rolls are bad. 40 Gauss shots followed by 40 S5 attacks (minus casualties) will kill just about any normal not super powered CC unit you can think of, not too mention the two MSS, and whatever other goodies you gave your lord/overlord. Not too mention Szeras adds some anti tank to the brick for diversification and comes with Gaze in case distances don't work out for you and the opponent gets the assault off.
Some maths:
40 Gauss will kill 4.44 MEQ on average...basically wiping MSU or severally crippling a maxed out squad.
Even if we assume 5 Warrior casualties (a tall order if you killed 4 to 5 guys in the shooting round) 30 S5 attacks kill another 3.33.
Basically, point is, put together correctly Szeras' buff can make a 20 brick deadly regardless of die roll. T5 and BS5 are obviously nice, but S5 is not horrible by any stretch.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the lack of court knock I've found to not be of a true concern, at least not at the 1500+ range. One court is generally pretty sufficient, as the stuff the court brings can pretty easily be found else where (minus Solar Pulse of course, but one is generally sufficient).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/06 06:26:25
I have been working on a list with Anrakyr in a unit of immortals with a veil tek and chronotek. I think it could be an interesting combination. Being able to re-roll either his tachyon arrow, or his machine domination would be really helpful, combined with his abilit to go after objectives and he is no slouch in close combat either.
I was also thinking of starting him in my two chrono tek unit, having him fire his tachyon and then leaving for the veil unit next turn. Still in the list building stage but I hope to take it to playtesting soon.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Leth wrote:I was also thinking of starting him in my two chrono tek unit, having him fire his tachyon and then leaving for the veil unit next turn. Still in the list building stage but I hope to take it to playtesting soon.
I used to equip a CCB lord with the Tachyon Arrow, then have him make a cameo into a unit with a Chronometron. It worked great - until I started playing almost exclusively Imotekh night-fight and just didn't have anything to shoot at. Solar Pulse based Necron armies won't have this problem.
A Chrono-linked Tachyon Arrow (hit/pen/dmg reroll) is utter death on everything. AV14, pff. Just need an unobscured target.
McNinja wrote:Here's something to think about: would Imotekhs lightning also get Tank Hunters if the nemesor gave it to imotekh/his unit?
I'd say no. It is not Imhotek doing the shooting.
Just remember that for Imhotek's Lightning to benefit from Tank Hunters, he must be "firing" them. And this means targets can get cover saves against Lightning strikes. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
1850
5k 
5k 
6k
(Iron Warriors) 
